*** Captain America (Super Soldier) ***

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Comments

  • Ben Grimm wrote:
    onimus wrote:
    IS there another ability with that huge of a flux in one cover?

    the only two abilities that I can think of right now that drastically alter the gameplay of an ability with one cover are Hulk's black from 4 to 5 and Patch's yellow from 4 to 5.

    But those are not as game changing as GSBW's.

    Hood's yellow - while not quite as big a difference as GSBW - is like that, in that it's useless at 4 covers and pretty good at 5. Same goes for his black, which gains its Sentry synergy only at five covers.
    Good point.

    I don't play Hood much so it didn't come to mind.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    I've been liking the new Hawkeye, so I tried running Cap/Hood/Hawkeye a bunch of times. Then I ran Cap/Hood/X-Force a bunch of times. Both are fun teams.

    Sentinel of Liberty may be 19 yellowtile.png , but I find myself able to use it almost every match. Stiil, it's usually at a point where the match is decided. With Hawkeye tagging along. that means an extra Speed Shot. However, at least 4 or 5 times, I've had a game go bad with Cap as the last one standing. If he's gotten to shield-flinging, he's one of the few that can actually pull off a victory when it seems impossible.

    The 5 cover yellowtile.png is nice, but few have it because "target any tile" is so fantastically useful. Perhaps Cap should be tweaked slightly, swapping elements of covers 4 and 5 for red and blue. It would still be nice to lower the 19 yellowtile.png cost, but I can live with it -- I'm reliably able to use the power.

    [anchor=captainamerica3]Captain America (Steve Rogers)[/anchor] -- L4/5 Cover tweak icon_captainamerica.png
    3 Star Rarity (Rare) - Gold character Discussion link. Wiki link.
    At Max Level: HP: 8500 Tile damage: 79/70/61/11/12/13/3.0
      Sentinel of Liberty - Yellow 19 yellowtile.png
      Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team’s flank. Transforms 3 chosen basic tiles into Yellow Protect tiles, each with a strength of 24.
        Level 2 – Increases Protect Strength to 31. Level 3 – Increases Protect Strength to 38. (Max 278) Level 4 – Increases Protect Strength to 47. Level 5 – Transform 4 tiles.
      Max Level: Protect Strength 339 per tile for 1356 protection
        Star Spangled Avenger - Red 11 redtile.png
        The Captain hurls his trusty shield into battle. Hits the target for 95 damage and transforms a chosen basic tile into a 3 turn Countdown tile that returns 8 Red AP.
          Level 2 – 209 damage. Returns 9
        redtile.png .
        Level 3 – 323 damage. Can target Strike, Protect, Attack, and Web tiles.
        Level 4 – 437 damage. Can target any tile.
        Level 5 – 551 damage. Returns 10 redtile.png .
        Max Level: 4031 damage
          Peacemaker - Blue 12 bluetile.png
          Captain America gallantly launches his shield at the enemy. Stuns the target for 2 turns and transforms a chosen basic tile into a 3 turn Countdown tile that returns 8 Blue AP.
            Level 2 – Converts to a strength 17 Protect tile when activated. Returns 9
          bluetile.png .
          Level 3 - Can target strike. protect, attack, and web tiles. Protect strength increased to 27.
          Level 4 - Can target any tile. Protect strength increased to 37.
          Level 5 - Returns 10 bluetile.png . Protect strength increased to 48.
          Max Level: 342 protect

          For a 3/5/5 build, this guy is identical to the current Captain America. Target Any Tile has been moved to cover 4, though. A 5/4/4 build becomes more viable. I would likely go for that, especially if SoL was lowered to 14 yellowtile.png or so.
        • Sandmaker
          Sandmaker Posts: 208 Tile Toppler
          I like the idea of moving the "hit any target" to 4. Having it be both at 5 is just too restrictive.

          An alternative, I think, is to buff yellow so that it can override any tiles at 5. That way no matter your build, you have two abilities that can overwrite countdown tiles (unless you go 4/4). The trade off will be, a second medium cost overwrite that's reusable vs a high cost mass overwrite that takes our 4 tiles.
        • @Nonce - The AP return is too vital to his play style. 5 Red is still a must with those power shifts.

          @Sandmaker - In the time it takes you to get 19 yellow I can get 12 blue, overwrite a tile, get 3 more blue, overwrite another tile, get 3 more blue, overwrite another tile. Even with 4 overwrites I don't see anyone taking that power to 5 covers, because the red and blue are fast enough in that department.

          I was thinking about this and IW's invisibility tile. And then there is the damage ricochet that Cap is so good at. I would change the power to be a damage reflection while Cap is in front. Converts 1 yellow tile at random to a Block tile. While the Block tile is on the board if Captain America takes damage, it's reduced by X% and that damage is returned to the enemy team. I'm ok with a high cost defensive ability as long as it's damn near 100% effective, and that high cost is attainable in a standard PvP match.

          Sentinel of Liberty - 14 AP
          Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team's flank. Transforms one random yellow tile into a Block tile. While this tile is on the board if Captain America takes damage it's reduced and reflected back to the enemy team by 25%.
          • Level 2: Reduce and reflect 35%
          • Level 3: Reduce and reflect 50%
          • Level 4: Reduce and reflect 75%
          • Level 5: Reduce and reflect 95%


          Maybe put some maximum damage caps if you have to for balance, to encourage actually leveling him up. Although he does have to be able to take colors for this to be effective. I think this power fits Cap's play style pretty well. Slow and methodical. You get 14 yellow you basically shut down the damage and start putting it back on the enemy team, so long as you keep taking Cap's colors. Does not protect against AoE to the team which his shield usually can't.
        • onimus wrote:
          Sniper Rifle is where it needs to be at L5, but it should be substantially cheaper at lower levels. The jump from that last cover is so huge that it might as well be a different power entirely, while the cost scales up as if it were an incremental improvement. I can't think of another character who so badly needs to be fully covered to be worth anything at all.
          Yea, there aren't many abilities that go from "probably the worst ability in the game" to "game ending" with one cover.

          19 AP for a single target burst is epically bad.

          But 19 AP for a team burst is strong and ends a lot of games.

          IS there another ability with that huge of a flux in one cover?

          the only two abilities that I can think of right now that drastically alter the gameplay of an ability with one cover are Hulk's black from 4 to 5 and Patch's yellow from 4 to 5.

          But those are not as game changing as GSBW's.

          MnMags purple goes from 10 ap to 9 ap.

          3* Spidey's blue goes from horrible to "pretty bad" at 5.
        • Or, alternative to an additional special tile, how about a damage return passive?

          Sentinel of Liberty - Passive
          Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team's flank. While you have at least 5 yellowtile.png AP whenever Captain America takes damage that damage is reduced by X, and X damage is returned to the enemy team.
          • Level 2: X+10%
          • Level 3: X+30%
          • Level 4: X+50%
          • Level 5: Captain America also produces a Yellow protect.png tile of Strength Y when you match yellow.


          I'm thinking level 4 is 200 damage for level 166, basically reflecting match damage while you have 5 yellowtile.png AP. Also more level dependent than the previous power. I threw level 5 in as an afterthought, making him basically Spidey on steroids for yellow, I'm thinking STR 90+ here. It could easily be X+100% damage reflect tho, getting it up to the 400ish range.
        • Kolence
          Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
          To speed things up, how about borrowing from Psylocke the reducing cost as more tiles are out mechanic?
            Sentinel of Liberty - Yellow 10 yellowtile.png
            Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team’s flank. Transforms 2 chosen basic tiles into Yellow Protect tiles with a strength of 24, up to a limit of 3 tiles. Costs 1 less for each Yellow Protect tile in play (min cost 7).
              Level 2 – Increases Protect Strength to 31. Level 3 – Increases Protect Strength to 38. (Max 278) Level 4 – Increases Protect Strength to 47. Can target friendly Special tiles. Level 5 – Limit increased to 4 tiles.
            Max Level: Protect Strength 339 per tile for 1356 protection

            Added the friendly tile targeting for some extra synergy with Falcon.
          • over_clocked
            over_clocked Posts: 3,961
            Kolence wrote:
            To speed things up, how about borrowing from Psylocke the reducing cost as more tiles are out mechanic?
              Sentinel of Liberty - Yellow 10 yellowtile.png
              Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team’s flank. Transforms 2 chosen basic tiles into Yellow Protect tiles with a strength of 24, up to a limit of 3 tiles. Costs 1 less for each Yellow Protect tile in play (min cost 7).
                Level 2 – Increases Protect Strength to 31. Level 3 – Increases Protect Strength to 38. (Max 278) Level 4 – Increases Protect Strength to 47. Can target friendly Special tiles. Level 5 – Limit increased to 4 tiles.
              Max Level: Protect Strength 339 per tile for 1356 protection

              Added the friendly tile targeting for some extra synergy with Falcon.
              I'm trying to inspire your post by giving you an upvote but it won't let me atm.
            • LavishDragoon
              LavishDragoon Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
              I read these last few thoughts of changing his yellow and I had two thoughts. What if you left it the same and it had an added effect of automatically returning his "thrown" shields? OR change it to a passive that when making a yellow match places a 1 CD tile. The tile would generate 1 redtile.png / 1 bluetile.png and a yellowtile.png protect tile. It could even scale depending on if it was a 3/4/5 match.
            • I read these last few thoughts of changing his yellow and I had two thoughts. What if you left it the same and it had an added effect of automatically returning his "thrown" shields? OR change it to a passive that when making a yellow match places a 1 CD tile. The tile would generate 1 redtile.png / 1 bluetile.png and a yellowtile.png protect tile. It could even scale depending on if it was a 3/4/5 match.

              Then it would still never get used because it's 19 AP. The biggest problem with his yellow skill is its cost.
            • HairyDave
              HairyDave Posts: 1,574
              Ben Grimm wrote:
              I read these last few thoughts of changing his yellow and I had two thoughts. What if you left it the same and it had an added effect of automatically returning his "thrown" shields? OR change it to a passive that when making a yellow match places a 1 CD tile. The tile would generate 1 redtile.png / 1 bluetile.png and a yellowtile.png protect tile. It could even scale depending on if it was a 3/4/5 match.

              Then it would still never get used because it's 19 AP. The biggest problem with his yellow skill is its cost.
              This.

              The skill itself is alright it's just far too expensive to ever use.
            • Kolence wrote:
              To speed things up, how about borrowing from Psylocke the reducing cost as more tiles are out mechanic?
                Sentinel of Liberty - Yellow 10 yellowtile.png
                Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team’s flank. Transforms 2 chosen basic tiles into Yellow Protect tiles with a strength of 24, up to a limit of 3 tiles. Costs 1 less for each Yellow Protect tile in play (min cost 7).
                  Level 2 – Increases Protect Strength to 31. Level 3 – Increases Protect Strength to 38. (Max 278) Level 4 – Increases Protect Strength to 47. Can target friendly Special tiles. Level 5 – Limit increased to 4 tiles.
                Max Level: Protect Strength 339 per tile for 1356 protection

                Added the friendly tile targeting for some extra synergy with Falcon.

                This is great except, creates 2 with a max of 3 is awkward. I know you just borrowed from Psylocke but still. I'd have it create 1 stronger one with the limit of 3 and cost reduction and create 2 with a max of 4 at 5 covers.

                The synergy with Falcon is overkill because you will already have falcon's shields out at that point, and there may be too many yellow shields to even cast it.
              • Kolence
                Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
                Lerysh wrote:

                This is great except, creates 2 with a max of 3 is awkward. I know you just borrowed from Psylocke but still. I'd have it create 1 stronger one with the limit of 3 and cost reduction and create 2 with a max of 4 at 5 covers.

                The synergy with Falcon is overkill because you will already have falcon's shields out at that point, and there may be too many yellow shields to even cast it.

                Well, that part about Falcon and friendly tiles was exactly so Cap could just overwrite the weaker Falcon's yellow shields. But after some more thinking it really is an overkill, if nothing else because overwriting Redwing CD too.

                Anyway, the important part is reducing the cost and getting it fired sooner.
                Now you need 19 AP for 3 tiles. With a tweak like this, you'd get 2 tiles for 10 AP and third tile for 8 or second and third for 9 AP if one tile gets destroyed. That's 18-19 AP for 3 tiles. But if there is enough yellow, you could place 1st tile to stay and use 2nd for a match-3. Then you need two more match-3s (as long as the 1st tile survives) to cast 2nd and 3rd tile. In this favorable case 3 tiles cost you 16 AP. So not only you get to cast it sooner and overall a bit cheaper than it is now, you also remain protected from match damage even when one tile is matched, because you get two tiles per casting. So more reliable protection than blue shield, but no overwriting enemy tiles. Also more tactical freedom when you can spend those 19 AP in two separate steps.
              • inEden
                inEden Posts: 41
                Cap is my first 3* starter. I currently have him on lvl 104 and had to spend HP to level his red from 3 to 5 as I wanted to use him asap and at red lvl 5 I can one shot supports which is awesome.

                I am actually very happy to have my first 3* be Cap instead of a weaker 3*. I am also a big fan of his costume. I've noticed people say he pairs well with characters like Hood or Falcon. I think he'd be fantastic with Hood but how would you guys rate his versatility?

                Can he slot into most teams and still be very good?

                Will he work well with Psylocke? She was my first 3* ever with a black cover and it was amazing stuff. She now holds a special place in my heart, not to mention she is an X-Man. Off topic: release Cyclops already! A 2* MN and a 3* Phoenix force costume/Jim Lee costume. I now have 4 covers for her I believe. 4-5.

                Should I invest any ISO at this time? I am still working on Cap and Hulk. They aren't at current max yet.

                Many thanks.
              • inEden wrote:
                Cap is my first 3* starter. I currently have him on lvl 104 and had to spend HP to level his red from 3 to 5 as I wanted to use him asap and at red lvl 5 I can one shot supports which is awesome.

                I am actually very happy to have my first 3* be Cap instead of a weaker 3*. I am also a big fan of his costume. I've noticed people say he pairs well with characters like Hood or Falcon. I think he'd be fantastic with Hood but how would you guys rate his versatility?

                Can he slot into most teams and still be very good?

                Will he work well with Psylocke? She was my first 3* ever with a black cover and it was amazing stuff. She now holds a special place in my heart, not to mention she is an X-Man. Off topic: release Cyclops already! A 2* MN and a 3* Phoenix force costume/Jim Lee costume. I now have 4 covers for her I believe. 4-5.

                Should I invest any ISO at this time? I am still working on Cap and Hulk. They aren't at current max yet.

                Many thanks.

                I think he plays great with Hood. Hood helps speed his AP along and intimidation can really help with the countdowns - I especially like intimidation with his blue because you can keep the stunlock going without the stunned character getting a chance to go. I even like him with IM40 (at 1-2 yellow covers) since that's another way to speed up red/blue.
              • NorthernPolarity
                NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
                inEden wrote:
                Cap is my first 3* starter. I currently have him on lvl 104 and had to spend HP to level his red from 3 to 5 as I wanted to use him asap and at red lvl 5 I can one shot supports which is awesome.

                I am actually very happy to have my first 3* be Cap instead of a weaker 3*. I am also a big fan of his costume. I've noticed people say he pairs well with characters like Hood or Falcon. I think he'd be fantastic with Hood but how would you guys rate his versatility?

                Can he slot into most teams and still be very good?

                Will he work well with Psylocke? She was my first 3* ever with a black cover and it was amazing stuff. She now holds a special place in my heart, not to mention she is an X-Man. Off topic: release Cyclops already! A 2* MN and a 3* Phoenix force costume/Jim Lee costume. I now have 4 covers for her I believe. 4-5.

                Should I invest any ISO at this time? I am still working on Cap and Hulk. They aren't at current max yet.

                Many thanks.

                Cap is a pretty simple character. He throws out shields for massive damage over time, and occasionally stuns people. He isn't very versatile: his red is pretty much the only reason you would want him on the team, which means that he doesn't work well with pretty much every other character in the game that has a good red. He also wants to be the focal point of your team: you need to get red out EARLY if you want to cast it multiple times, so this means that you need to be prioritizing red over pretty much everything. That being said, if you build around him (Hood), then he can singlehandedly win you the game: red just deals so much repeatable damage over the course of multiple turns that it's more AP effect than pretty much anything in the game. You pay the iron price for this for being forced to match red early, and not having any other good red characters on the team.

                He's not the best at slotting well into other teams since he only has 1 good ability (and 1 average one): him + psylocke for instance is pretty bad since the 2 heroes only cover 3 real colors (red/blue/black). He's actually terrible with Falcon: his defense tiles don't need to be boosted by falcon's inspiration since they're already strong. Him + Hulk is terrible since he doesn't have any abilities that can be fueled by anger.

                But, if he's currently your only 3*, then he'll be amazing for you since his red is strictly better than pretty much every single 2* character. He'll be a mainstay in your roster until you move onto more powerful guys, and even with a full roster, he's probably the best PvE character in the game right now. OBW also helps fuel red, so thats nice as well.

                TLDR: he's great for a transitioning roster, dump all your iso into him and never look back (especially if your alternatives are Psylocke / Hulk... yuck.).
              • In the 2* transition phase, Steve Rogers pairs up pretty well with Thor.
              • Pwuz_
                Pwuz_ Posts: 1,213 Chairperson of the Boards
                I would say that Cap A. is a fantastic counter for Hulk, Cap M, Bullseye, Daken, and anyone with an annoying passive. Once you get his Blue charged up, you can keep those pesky passives from being a pain while you crush them under your foot.
              • inEden
                inEden Posts: 41
                That's interesting. If a character is stunned, their passives don't activate? For example Hulk or Daken's strike tiles?

                Also Cap not playing well with Hulk is a bummer. I dumped 20 levels worth of ISO into Hulk last night (had an excellent night farming iso with one of the events finishing as well). I figured Hulk's Green is decent as I found it can reset the board somewhat when I need more reds for Cap. I can always try to pair Cap, Hulk and Ares as a fun team to bum rush people.

                My current team is Cap, Hulk and OBW/A. Wolverine/ Ares/ C Storm.

                I actually have 2/0/5 Hood that I haven't leveled yet. I am reluctant to use him as I don't have any blues for the guy but his black should go excellent with Cap. In MPQ, Strike team Cap is my favorite character so I am stoked that he's my main.

                I really want 3* Daken though. Just having no luck with pulling covers for him.

                Lastly, what is a good team with Cap and Hood? I'm not sure about Cap tanking so I am guessing a tank to go with them? I guess my first proper 3* team would be Cap, Hood and the third one I'll need your suggestions.

                Thanks ladies and fellas.
              • inEden wrote:
                That's interesting. If a character is stunned, their passives don't activate? For example Hulk or Daken's strike tiles?

                Also Cap not playing well with Hulk is a bummer. I dumped 20 levels worth of ISO into Hulk last night (had an excellent night farming iso with one of the events finishing as well). I figured Hulk's Green is decent as I found it can reset the board somewhat when I need more reds for Cap. I can always try to pair Cap, Hulk and Ares as a fun team to bum rush people.

                My current team is Cap, Hulk and OBW/A. Wolverine/ Ares/ C Storm.

                I actually have 2/0/5 Hood that I haven't leveled yet. I am reluctant to use him as I don't have any blues for the guy but his black should go excellent with Cap. In MPQ, Strike team Cap is my favorite character so I am stoked that he's my main.

                I really want 3* Daken though. Just having no luck with pulling covers for him.

                Lastly, what is a good team with Cap and Hood? I'm not sure about Cap tanking so I am guessing a tank to go with them? I guess my first proper 3* team would be Cap, Hood and the third one I'll need your suggestions.

                Thanks ladies and fellas.

                Black Panther to tank yellow & blue for Cap & all colors for Hood
                Iron Man 40 with only 1 or 2 yellow covers to feed blue & red AP, you can also use Hood's intimidation to speed up recharge timers.
                LThor pairs well and benefits from Hood's AP drain
                Colossus mostly tanking for Hood and can throw Cap with Fastball Special