[PVE] scaling [Merged Thread]

nwman

As someone who has spent too much money on this game i have to agree with the posters above.

Why did i spend money on this game? It certainly wasnt to make it harder.

These devs are so out of touch its not funny and with so many games out there my patience for this **** is running thin.

Akari

I went back and finished the first 2 subs for the final rewards (token and Beast cover). Not a chance I'm touching sub 3 again unless they fix it. 2nd node is higher than anything I've got, and I already struggled really badly on the node before it.

Todzilla

Nothing i say hasn't been said already so i won't rehash.

Having said that i have yet to see one of the "whales" post on this topic in the 12 pages it is now up to. I know the whales live in their own selfish world where the average player doesn't exist and these scaling issues don't affect them but they need to speak up before they find themselves the only ones that play. Have fun reaching 4k in pvp when you only have your own alliance to hit. I don't have the line contacts for them but if anyone does tell them to speak up. Money talks and they have the stronger voices so please quit being silent and speak up in favor of your community.

Of course by posting I'm sure i just painted a huge target on my back but so be it

pheregas

Why not completely get rid of scaling in the gauntlet (as suggested several times above), get rid of boosted characters, and limit the * designation of each round?

Round 1: Only 2* and below are allowed.
Round 2: Only 3* and below are allowed.
Round 3: Everyone can come to the party.

I have a fully developed 2* and 3* roster... Which I never use... With the game being entirely about 4/5* characters, this would allow some fun interplay between those characters in this type of event.

SnowcaTT

I've been occasionally asking exactly what the title says [when this was "why not remove scaling"]. Why not have all scaling off, equal difficulty for all?

Haven't asked since the introduction of 5*'s...but since 5* is completely RNG you could make all rewards accessible somewhat easily to 4*'s (and with great challenge to 3*'s as well!) - then it is roster that gives you rewards, and 5*'s are the appropriate trophies they should be.

Devs have previously said they want all rewards accessible to all players. Which gets you what I've seen more often recently - we recently took in a member who has more 5* covers (in total) than I do, and no 4*'s past 166. By allowing your 2*/3*'s in their own brackets, they are skipping the 3*/4* transition completely...and making anyone who did that transition (or didn't have the 5* luck) INCREDIBLY frustrated.

Khaoz77

I just said the same as the OP in another post. This isn't just a few people voice. Is the whole forum screaming...

elvy75

so i actually finished gauntlet, and decided to come and post my experience about it. While it certainly is possible to finish it, it costed me bunch of my superwhale points, and if i didn't have them I would never been able to finish it at all. My scaling was based on my OML level 435 and my cyke level 363 boosted. When i could use both of them i was barely managing to win - it was always on the verge of losing a match though, when i couldn't use them I did super whales. So after competing it i asked myself was i challenged by the difficulty, and the answer is NO! It wasn't challenging it was frustrating for the most part of sub 3! I remember two gauntlets ago I actually used hood + stormneto to beat level 395. That is impossible now when every single fight is having 3 characters over 40k health. Match damage alone is too big to play with anyone but your best few characters.

Also others have said, rewards for all this are not appropriate. When gauntlet was run for the first time top reward was green loki. Later on it was changed to 4* cover, now with 5* being reality of the game single 4* cover is not sufficient any more. Top progression should be 25 cp, with 3 4* covers given throughout the gauntlet. If you want to ramp up the difficulty, reward people for it. For the sake of everyone who didn't manage to complete this gauntlet i hope devs will do stealth patch that will scale things down a bit.

rakesh14021983

pheregas wrote:

Why not completely get rid of scaling in the gauntlet (as suggested several times above), get rid of boosted characters, and limit the * designation of each round?

Round 1: Only 2* and below are allowed.
Round 2: Only 3* and below are allowed.
Round 3: Everyone can come to the party.

I have a fully developed 2* and 3* roster... Which I never use... With the game being entirely about 4/5* characters, this would allow some fun interplay between those characters in this type of event.

THIS.

I am sure more experienced players would want to tweak this but it still makes sense on so many levels. At least, it allows you to use the remainder of your roster and not just the 5 - 6 top characters you anyway end up playing with.

GrumpySmurf1002

So ok, I'm the ONLY one who thinks Demiurge_[BagMan] was a troll account?

Baloobear

I think it is reasonable that they might want to increase the difficulty level on the game, but they should at the very least re-think about rewards !
It is ridiculous that you need a team with high level 4* characters to beat the first sub and you only get **** rewards like standard tokens, 100-200 iso and 2* characters...

elvy75

pheregas wrote:

Why not completely get rid of scaling in the gauntlet (as suggested several times above), get rid of boosted characters, and limit the * designation of each round?

Round 1: Only 2* and below are allowed.
Round 2: Only 3* and below are allowed.
Round 3: Everyone can come to the party.

I have a fully developed 2* and 3* roster... Which I never use... With the game being entirely about 4/5* characters, this would allow some fun interplay between those characters in this type of event.

This is an excellent idea, but only if enemies teams wouldn't be at more than 20% higher than your best 3 characters in each respective group. I dont want to see level 390 for 2* or level 431 for 3*, and near 500 for the rest.

Warbringa

Developers....your scaling on the Gauntlet is broken. I have been able to complete the Gauntlet for the past several seasons. Normally the first Wilderness event is easy for my 3* developed roster, the Alpine second event is more challenging but still very fair and the final global domination is very difficult but eventually able to complete.

This time around the scaling is ridiculous as I am already facing level 240+ opponents by the end of the Wilderness event!!! This is scaled up way, way more than past seasons and is unreasonable for my roster. In addition I only have one character boosted above level 180 due to the horrible selection of characters you chose to boost and that is Loki himself at level 263 (which isn't very helpful).

I will not be able to complete this gauntlet which makes me very unhappy since I really, really look forward to this event every time. The Civil War event and this event brought me back to playing recently on a more consistent basis but now I think I will change my mind after seeing this. You have the ability to look at my roster....you tell me how I am supposed to be able to compete in this event with this scaling....I would love to see you guys try and do it....that would be the only entertaining thing about this event.

mpqr7

It would actually be very fun to do PVEs where you can only use 2*s or 3*s. I like doing it in DDQ, I would love an expanded version of this as regular PVE. I have every 3* championed, and I rarely use most of them. I could champion all my 2*s in 1-2 months, but I don't, because I never use any of them (except 4 for for ddq). It would be great to have a reason to use more of my roster.

There's no reason to use a 3* or 2* against gauntlet foes who take away 500+ hit points just with match damage. That kills them all very quickly.

Sure, I can use my whale points to beat this thing, but it seems like a huge waste. Not a particularly fun or challenging experience. We'll see.

And the prizes are awful. It's a lot of effort for one single 4*.

Vinmarc43

What pisses me off more then scaling is the " no comment " from the guy`s in red. You can complain as much as you want for YEARS now, and they don`t care, as long as people pay $$$ , they won`t listen.
Here`s a quote from David :

Thanks for your patience and enjoy the 'War!

add too this, FRUSTRATION, big thx David !!!! NOT

Wolarsen

There is a lot of sense, and I agree with most of the post from OP and SnowcaTT

Devs have previously said they want all rewards accessible to all players. Which gets you what I've seen more often recently - we recently took in a member who has more 5* covers (in total) than I do, and no 4*'s past 166. By allowing your 2*/3*'s in their own brackets, they are skipping the 3*/4* transition completely...and making anyone who did that transition (or didn't have the 5* luck) INCREDIBLY frustrated.

But somehow transition has to be reduced as the game grows; without some scaling, or any other dampering measures, wouldn't the gap between newcomers and veterans become way too wide?

Let's get the availability of 5* aside from this conversation, its a way too pinchy subject

Pylgrim

Crowl wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

Yep. And a progression-based reward scheme would also remove harsh timing restrictions and "optimal" grinds, meaning that you'd need not to worry about joining a bracket that fits your daily schedule.

One problem with a progression-based system is we have that in the Gauntlet and they think that the chance of everyone getting the top reward means that they have to be extra stingy with those rewards.

That's precisely what tiered divisions would fix: Gating rewards by difficulty would mean that the devs wouldn't have to be afraid of giving high rewards to veteran player for the fear of newbies accessing them.

Wolarsen wrote:

But somehow transition has to be reduced as the game grows; without some scaling, or any other dampering measures, wouldn't the gap between newcomers and veterans become way too wide?

Let's get the availability of 5* aside from this conversation, its a way too pinchy subject

Both the ISO scarcity and the high RNG impact on the acquisition of 4* and 5*s already keep that in check (a bit too much, if you ask me). A 2* player can transition into 3* much faster than a 4* player can transition into 5*.

Wolarsen

by Polares » Tue May 10, 2016 9:58 am

So, you are lucky an get some 5s, but if you put iso into them you are SERIOUSLY PENALIZED in PvE !!!! You can just chose between 3-5 5s (if you managed to pull covers for all of them) and they don't have that much synergy together, most of the time you need 4s and 3s, but your enemies scale even more than you!!! So, what is the advantage of leveling your 5s ?!?!?!?

This is a very unpleasant issue that should be handled swiftly; the thought of a transitioner considering if he should sell his precious 5* because his scaling is killing his gameplay is just awful. The only solution i see is some kind of vault/cellar to lock undesired characters; vaulted characters would not be considered at the start of an event sclae calculation, and would only be able to leave the cellar at the time you join a PvE. Put a limit to the number of vaulted characters, if needed, or some fee to lock them.

Oh, and want to throw a bone to players? Make vaulted characters NOT count towards roster slots.

Dekliko1978

100% agree, please get rid of scaling. It totally negates what should be the highest objective in the game, improving your roster.

Like others have suggested already please have different versions of the same event with different rewards. If you enter the 1*/2* event the top reward could be a 3*, the 3* event could have a 4* as reward and the 4*/5* event could have a LT or something along those lines.

Smudge

Vinmarc43 wrote:

What pisses me off more then scaling is the " no comment " from the guy`s in red. You can complain as much as you want for YEARS now, and they don`t care, as long as people pay $$$ , they won`t listen.
Here`s a quote from David :

Thanks for your patience and enjoy the 'War!

add too this, FRUSTRATION, big thx David !!!! NOT

There are comments from reds in the main scaling thread. The only one from a Demiurge_name basically tells us that they created a tier that broke the game, and they have no idea how to fix it. Who could have seen that coming...?

The typical response is "Keep the comments coming, we hear you, and fixing this is difficult."

There are a ton of fantastic ideas from your player base. I understand that building a game that is fun and challenging (you know, using the actual definition of those words, not the feeling we get when the development team uses them) for all tiers is not as fun and more challenging for a development team. I do get that.

It feels like the problem is sunk costs in the current system that's been implemented for PvE. It's been done this way forever. "We've always done it that way." If there is anything I've learned from being in business and from taking college courses and now working in the IT sector, it's that, "We've always done it this way!" is a philosophy that gets you in trouble. Being unwilling to adapt and change is what kills games and businesses in the long run.

Trust me; I understand sunk costs as well. I've studied numerous cases and been involved in projects where sunk costs were a serious issue. NASA is a huge recent example. If you can accept that the model is wrong and adapt to the surroundings (perhaps by listening to some of the fantastic ideas around here - I also understand that not every idea is a good one!), maybe things would improve not only for your customers, but also for your bottom line.

PorkBelly

I've finished every previous run of the gauntlet.

I'm bailing out in the 2nd sub of this run.

Congrats D3/Demiurge- you managed to ruin my favorite event.