**** Punisher (Max) ****

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  • JaedenkaalJaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus said:
    Quebbster said:
    It might be fun to pair Maxie with 4* Grocket and Star-Lord to get some beefy strikes on the board from the get go and reduce the cost of his Powers...
    Problem with Rocket & Groot: 
    They don't produce new strike tiles during the battle and the ones they throw out in the beginning will probably be gone by the time you're set to set get Punisher punishing. So I'm thinking Yondu or Gamora would be fun with Punisher but nah - color conflicts in both cases.
    Bl4ade? Not we're talking but again, green conflict. Iron Fist makes strike tiles - blue conflict. Carol make strike tiles! Yes - but black conflict.
    Professor X + some spammer dude (Gambit maybe, or better up; Wasp (not a purple conflict hence Professor Sex can go invisible for some damage dodging)? Yes that sounds fun, too bad Professor X is as squishy as a fruit. But that I'll try out later today when I get the ISO needed to champ my Punisher.
    He does boost all Strike tiles by a flat 16-25%, though. In case those R&G tiles aren't big enough. 
  • JaedenkaalJaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    mexus said:
    Yes that's cool. Is that more than how much Gamora (or another Guardian) boosts them?
    No, you'd bring both, of course. Don't be ridiculous.

    mexus said:
    Am I doing it wrong? Those the same kind of strike tiles generated by Rocket at the start of battle. In one pic Punisher is in the gang. In the other pic he ain't. The whether he is or not the strike tile's strength is the same.

    Bug report time?

    You'd have to watch the enemy health bar to see if this is the case. Some time in the past flat effects like this one (or BSSM, or Venom, etc...) were not reflected in the tooltips. The other possibility is that there's an order of operations bug and Punisher isn't boosting R&G strikes like he should.

    Try generating other strike tiles during the match and see if they show the correct strength in the tooltip (ie, 25% higher than the ability description)
  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    His strike tile buff is 'kinetic'. Meaning, it is calculated upon dealing the damage itself.
    For 4* Rocket & Groot, their strike tile buff is a one time thing at the beginning of the match, which raises the strike tile strength as they are initially placed on the board.

    Therefore, if you stun or down Pun, the strikes no longer receive the increased damage calculation.
    It is similar to how Eddie Venom reduces enemy protect tile strength, in a kinetic way, which is like an active-passive. If he's stunned or downed they return to their 'normal' strength. 

    Calculate what a match 3 should do for damage, and be sure to add in the strike tile values. It will be more due to his kinetic (acitve-passive) buff.

    Something like a black match at 85 damage each with 5 strikes on the board of 354 strength:
    85 x 3 + (354 x 5)x 1.25 = 2,467
    Check the math, I can't test it until I champ Pun, ha!
  • JaedenkaalJaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    What color conflict? R&G don't have active abilities, do they?
  • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,464 Chairperson of the Boards
    It could be that Punisher only buffs strike tiles generated after the first turn. A lot of powers are like that. Carnage, for example, won't start generating attack tiles until your second turn.
  • JaedenkaalJaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dormammu said:
    It could be that Punisher only buffs strike tiles generated after the first turn. A lot of powers are like that. Carnage, for example, won't start generating attack tiles until your second turn.
    Yeah that's what I'm thinking, although it's still weird why his ability would 'care' when the tiles were created.
  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    So, I was right? lol
  • AnonAnon Posts: 1,141 Chairperson of the Boards
    Punisher, Cloak and Dagger, and Vulture is pretty despicable.

    Horrendous on defense, but on offense it's gross.
  • DormammuDormammu Posts: 3,464 Chairperson of the Boards
    mexus said:
    I have tried a few team combinations with Punisher in the Simulator now. I have never experienced such an awful losing-streak before! Took me 20 minutes and all my healthpacks was spent, I hadn't downed a single enemy and not seen one of Punishers great animations once.

    There's really no reason to play if not using one of the two A-teams. It's just frustrating.
    This is a real problem. I keep champing new 4-stars or revisiting my old ones and trying new things in the SHIELD sim, but they take too much time. I end up having to go back to Grocket/Gamora/Medusa because that team is faster than a cheetah, or Mr.F/Medusa/Carnage because that team will outlast and wear down any other team this side of the 5-star tier.

    I have a freshly champed Rogue in my roster and I can't even work her in reliably because she's too slow and doesn't synergize with anyone as well as the above A-teams. Punisher is the same - great character, but too slow for reliable PvP play.

    But... at least he's fun when boosted in PvE.
  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    I'm looking forward to trying a Pun, Ant-Man and either Mockingbird or Blade vs the Sim teams. 
    It's probably only good once, but if you can rush blue to have Ant-Man steal the enemy strikes, while playing his cheap yellow for more strikes and damage, then Punisher can greatly benefit his big black. Once 1 enemy is downed, then play his green for good 2-enemy damage, and you may even have AM's attack tiles adding up by now. If you brought Bobbi, hopefully you've earned a free power or two, or if it was Blade you hope to have been adding his strikes all along (or accumulated enough red for bloodlust to be wrecking). 
    Then.... you're probably switching to a different team again, ha.
  • vinsensualvinsensual Age Unconfirmed Posts: 458 Mover and Shaker
    He's not boosted, but always a good option in Iron Fist's pvp.  Unboosted, I can actually run his full combo and see what kind of damage he does with 6-7 strike tiles on the board.  When he's boosted it's always overkill because his green does so much damage the last guy is half health before I use the true Punish.  
  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    The 4* ranking is at the link below and many on the forum here agree with the numbers. It still has Punisher ranked #8. He used to be #4 which I was always surprised about, but he has moved down due to Carol, Vulture etc. moving way up. 

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/56176/a-mostly-accurate-4-ranking-updated-10-24

    Be sure to read this in case you are missing something about the play strategy, BUT, I still don't get the hype yet. Maybe top 20? Maybe? I'm finally champing him tomorrow.
  • vinsensualvinsensual Age Unconfirmed Posts: 458 Mover and Shaker
    PunMax is slow in that you can't just rush purple with Fist to make black.  I only pull the trigger on the green black combo if I have at least 14 black ready, and I usually have enough blue for one cast also.  Ideal scenario I would have enough green to cast both Fist's green before he gets stunned.  In those ideal situations I was getting 12-13k for 7 black.  
  • Rick_OShayRick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    @mexus
    I've finally played with a champed Pun a bit now and I think we were missing something before. He can be amazing.
    As suggested in various places, I agree his green should not be played until you have 1 enemy downed. Fire it with 2 (or just 1) enemies left and it hits quite hard. Be sure to have at least 7 black when you do this, and have 3-4 strikes on the board - and another enemy will go down.

    So, maybe we were trying too hard to play his blue before everything else? I'm having much better results to just bring another strike tile maker, and Pun's blue can be an afterthought. His black should do around 9K+ damage if you have just a few strikes out, for 7 AP. 

    Friends with strikes: Nova, Ant-Man, Blade, Kate Bishop, Rocket & Groot, PX, IW, KP kinda, sometimes Elektra (plus she steals black)
  • sambrookjmsambrookjm Posts: 1,740 Chairperson of the Boards
    Anon said:
    Punisher, Cloak and Dagger, and Vulture is pretty despicable.

    Horrendous on defense, but on offense it's gross.
    One tip on this team...Vulture's Airborne doesn't count as "Stunned" for Punisher's Army of One.
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