**** Punisher (Max) ****

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  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
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    That is definitely true to some degree. If I have Carol on the team, there is no point in using Punishers black ever, lol. I have tried Punisher/Mockingbird/Carol, and although I like Mockingbird & Carol together as team death. Punisher doesn't fit well on that team (Riri does though at 535, its OP), I would rather use Red Hulks green that doesn't stun the whole team for 2 turns when there is no black. Cloak and Dagger do a great job of keeping black tiles on the board and being annoying.

    I'm mainly talking about teams that are good all around whether they are controlled by you or the A.I. 
    If Antman got a good buff I would be using Pun/Ant/Mock cause the ap generation is silly. Sadly Antman 
    needs some help. Mockingbird allowing Antman/Punisher or even herself to throw out free abilities with her
    "opportunist" passive as well.

    Unfortunately there are not many 4 stars that go extremely well with Punisher there are good ones but not great ones I tried everyone in 4 star world last night on teams with him. I've found Phoenix to be a great partner for him, if not his best partner. The team itself is not too expensive in the ap use department either. Jean feeds herself and C&D feed punisher black all day, and sometimes causing cascades of black. There yellow is decent as well.

    I hope they make more 4 star characters in the future that go extremely well with him, by the way both jean and Punisher can enhance strike tiles. Jean by match 5's which can happen often due to her purple ability creating red on the board. Punishers passive also increases strike tile strength which is very high already.

    Don't get me wrong though, I love Carol she's like a 4* God. I just find her wasted on a team with Punisher, because she has the superior black ability. Compared to Phoenix she makes strike tiles too slowly. The chance of Jean coming back to life is a nice bonus as well. Carol's passive is great though.
  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
    edited September 2017
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    Just tried out Punisher 553, Antman 535, Mockingbird 553 fully maxed.

    It's actually a pretty scary team, If mockingbirds passive "opportunist" fires off Antmans purple you get a you get a trap tile that duals as a attack tile maker and a 9ap nuke which makes it half the cost. If yellow then you get free strike tiles. If Mockingbirds red, then you get a nuke and probably a downed opposing character, if her purple you get 4 black ap for Punisher. You also destroy 5ap in your enemy's strongest color. 

    I thought if her passive activated Punishers green too soon it would be bad, but if its free I guess the stun time is minimal. Especially if her red has already nuked and downed a opposing character, green going off from mockingbirds "opportunist" passive isnt bad. I have also noticed that there are times when you may have black but the board is barren of green tiles. If the passive causes Punishers green ability to fire, your in for a treat.

    Antman could still use a slight buff and/or lowered ap cost but it's a pretty good team and doesn't take long to get going. I'm not going to say its the best Punisher team, but I believe it to be one of the best in 4* land.
  • hopper1979
    hopper1979 Posts: 564 Critical Contributor
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    Don't sell Electra short with punisher, try Electra/punisher and invisible woman.  Great board control and flexible offensively.  Might substitute c&d for iw for more black generation but I have not tried that one out yet.  Only issue is who tanks more colors if it is electra team works even better
  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
    edited September 2017
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    hopper1979 said:
    Don't sell Electra short with punisher, try Electra/punisher and invisible woman.  Great board control and flexible offensively.  Might substitute c&d for iw for more black generation but I have not tried that one out yet.  Only issue is who tanks more colors if it is electra team works even better
    I tried out Punisher /Elektra with C&D, I didn't like it for 2 reasons.

    1) Cloak & Daggers passive "Child Of Darkness" will start making red attack tiles if 9 or more black tiles are on the board at 5 covers. This is bad because their passive will actually eliminate Elektras "Ballet Of Death" trap tile if it makes its home on a red tile (Edit: this only happened once, I could not recreate the bug. If it happens again I will let you know.) They actually work against each other, Elektras red is the only reason you would even bring her along on that team, because your not ideally going to use her black in place of Punishers black.

    2) Her Purple is not the greatest either, she doesn't really help in the strike tile department unless your stealing them, and even then your only stealing 2 at a time. Firing it twice will only get you 4 and the that costs 14ap.

    Her red is good if it stays on the board, it can quickly bankrupt your opponent of purple, black, and red. She feeds
    Punisher with her red ability as well. So I tried to find someone with purple and yellow, cause as a support for Punisher the only thing that help the most with Elektra is her red.

    Oddly enough the best partner I found for Punisher/Elektra was Miles 553. This team is a AP generating monster especially if Elektras red stays on the board. Miles has his passive from "Power And Responsibility" which gives the team 1 purple, red, and blue ap upon a friendly or enemy match of his web tiles. You get 4 web tiles on the board for firing that ability and his purple nets you 5 web tiles. So the math speaks for itself when you net 3ap for each web tile match.

    You bring Elektra along for her red ability "Ballet Of Death" which will feed purple to miles, red to herself, and black to Punisher. Miles passive feeds blue to Punisher so he can make his own strike tiles. AP quickly stacks up quickly and before you know it the A.I is matching web tiles for you and helping you generate ap for your team.
  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
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    OJSP said:
    A friendly trap tile won't be overwritten by a friendly special tile
    thats what happened...
  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
    edited September 2017
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    Either way here's the other team I tried out. Punisher 553/Miles 553/Elektra 445
    https://youtu.be/FDbIE07OTlI


    Here is Punisher 553/Antman 535/Mockingbird 553 (See description for more details)

    https://youtu.be/nw-grVo-RrI

  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
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    OJSP said:
    But, if we know it's a bug, we should report it. I am trying to reproduce it, but Elektra makes her traps in 3 possible colours now, so far I wasn't able to wait for the red trap to be overwritten by Cloak and Dagger's attack tile.  However, I was able to test for Doctor Doom's traps. They didn't get overwritten by Patch's strike tiles from Berserker Rage, so that combo still works (Patch would still make less non-friendly strike tiles than friendly tiles).

    It's either a bug specifically on Cloak and Dagger or Elektra.
    Unfortunately I was not able to recreate it either, maybe I was wrong or it was a one time thing. What I saw was when there were no longer any vacant red tiles it overwrote Elektras red trap tile. It didn't do that when I tried it just now.
  • hopper1979
    hopper1979 Posts: 564 Critical Contributor
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    I like the Miles idea but the overwrite issue with C&D is definitely a bug, Electra's black does not get overwritten by 4Cages black so the same should apply to the red and C&D.  Also I would minimize her pink in this group it would put the pink towards C&D power switch in case you needed to heal or do a little damage to finish somebody off.  I would still go the IW route with Electra and Pun, that is a very solid team especially in pve, very effective but slow in pvp.  I will try both of those teams out and see which I like better but I agree with somebody's statement above that he does not have a particularly good teammate in the 3/4 land, he has decent partners but none which really excel him without making themselves useless (vulture is a perfect example)
  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
    edited September 2017
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    hopper1979 said:
    I like the Miles idea but the overwrite issue with C&D is definitely a bug, Electra's black does not get overwritten by 4Cages black so the same should apply to the red and C&D.  Also I would minimize her pink in this group it would put the pink towards C&D power switch in case you needed to heal or do a little damage to finish somebody off.  I would still go the IW route with Electra and Pun, that is a very solid team especially in pve, very effective but slow in pvp.  I will try both of those teams out and see which I like better but I agree with somebody's statement above that he does not have a particularly good teammate in the 3/4 land, he has decent partners but none which really excel him without making themselves useless (vulture is a perfect example)
    I also edited the comment i made with the video and added the other team video I was talking about.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I know it's a cliche to be impressed by how a champed 4-star performs when boosted, but dang it... I'm impressed by how MaxPun slaughters everything in his path every time he's boosted.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Dormammu said:
    I know it's a cliche to be impressed by how a champed 4-star performs when boosted, but dang it... I'm impressed by how MaxPun slaughters everything in his path every time he's boosted.
    He's strong enough unboosted. Boosted the hardest nodes are practically trivial.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
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    Uncapped damage on Black. Huge bonus damage from Strike Tiles. Green goes from AoE to game finishing nuke. Blue buffs strike tiles across the board. Vulture feeds him spectacularly.

    He's more than worth it.
  • Dormammu
    Dormammu Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Honestly, I have a hard time fitting MaxPun in these days. He was one of my first champed 4-stars and I don't know if I just got bored with him, or if power creep has made him obsolete. When he's boosted he's still an absolute terror and his green is still worth the price of admission, but he can be a bit expensive.

    That being said, Cardusa + MaxPun is an effective team. MaxPun adds some much-needed punch to that duo over someone slower like Mr. F or Iceman, when you favor speed and offense over defense.
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
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    Big Pun is my next champ as well, and similarly the last 4* i concentrate on for a while before moving things up a level. 
    He's rated very highly, and people talk well about him. But, you just never see him in Sim or elsewhere (yes, before Grockamora took over, regardless). 
    He's got tremendous competition for power colors: Vulture as recently mentioned, 4Fist, and even TA Hulk seems to show up more often.
    For green-black users, it's going to be hard to talk me away from Moon Knight, and for blue-green users well there's too many to list. I doubt anyone uses Pun Max for his blue-black combo, right? 

    Vulture's green does more damage vs 3 enemies, and you will certainly be using black to go airborne. It's probably no contest who's blue you should be using (decent damage plus enemy special tile removal > strike tiles (and the passive buff, right?).

    Among the 4* tier, is there a good yellow-red-purple combo that makes sense? St4r-Lord would potentially reduce two of Pun's powers so that's good, but he offers no additional strike tiles. Mockingbird may earn you a couple of free power uses, and I suppose the teammate stun is well worth the green power damage if you get it for 'free'. 

    Without Pun being champed, I've run him with Blade & Ant-Man to decent effect. These two offer cheap/passive strike tiles, and the overalp in green powers isn't a challenge since at 1 or 2 enemies left you use Pun. On paper this does seem like a strange combo admittedly, ha. Now that I have Mockingbird champed, I will try her with Ant-Man & Punisher.

    So how has Medusa and Nova been running with him? She earns Pun his green while getting an active purple power, and Nova's cheap yellow and red powers for strike tiles. Too bad he makes his strikes on black, which you'll be wanting to gather for Pun. 

  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The thing about 4* Punisher is that he is/was a finisher. He shares colors with Vulture and Hobofist, but he certainly can put down higher opponents than either. Vulture accelerates fast but when he runs out of black ap he's screwed. Hobofist delivers great offense for sure, but he won't kill 5* like Frank will. After perhaps Blade, Punisher might be the pure damage dealer of 4* land. 

    I might have heart shaped goggles on because Punisher is one of my favorite characters, but I still think he's top tier.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It might be fun to pair Maxie with 4* Grocket and Star-Lord to get some beefy strikes on the board from the get go and reduce the cost of his Powers...
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
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    @mexus
    Sounds good on the suggestions, looking forward to what you find out. By the way, you might want edit some parts of your post, ha.
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    mexus said:
    Quebbster said:
    It might be fun to pair Maxie with 4* Grocket and Star-Lord to get some beefy strikes on the board from the get go and reduce the cost of his Powers...
    Problem with Rocket & Groot: 
    They don't produce new strike tiles during the battle and the ones they throw out in the beginning will probably be gone by the time you're set to set get Punisher punishing. So I'm thinking Yondu or Gamora would be fun with Punisher but nah - color conflicts in both cases.
    Bl4ade? Not we're talking but again, green conflict. Iron Fist makes strike tiles - blue conflict. Carol make strike tiles! Yes - but black conflict.
    Professor X + some spammer dude (Gambit maybe, or better up; Wasp (not a purple conflict hence Professor Sex can go invisible for some damage dodging)? Yes that sounds fun, too bad Professor X is as squishy as a fruit. But that I'll try out later today when I get the ISO needed to champ my Punisher.
    He does boost all Strike tiles by a flat 16-25%, though. In case those R&G tiles aren't big enough. 
  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
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    mexus said:
    Yes that's cool. Is that more than how much Gamora (or another Guardian) boosts them?
    No, you'd bring both, of course. Don't be ridiculous.

    mexus said:
    Am I doing it wrong? Those the same kind of strike tiles generated by Rocket at the start of battle. In one pic Punisher is in the gang. In the other pic he ain't. The whether he is or not the strike tile's strength is the same.

    Bug report time?

    You'd have to watch the enemy health bar to see if this is the case. Some time in the past flat effects like this one (or BSSM, or Venom, etc...) were not reflected in the tooltips. The other possibility is that there's an order of operations bug and Punisher isn't boosting R&G strikes like he should.

    Try generating other strike tiles during the match and see if they show the correct strength in the tooltip (ie, 25% higher than the ability description)
  • Rick_OShay
    Rick_OShay Posts: 765 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
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    His strike tile buff is 'kinetic'. Meaning, it is calculated upon dealing the damage itself.
    For 4* Rocket & Groot, their strike tile buff is a one time thing at the beginning of the match, which raises the strike tile strength as they are initially placed on the board.

    Therefore, if you stun or down Pun, the strikes no longer receive the increased damage calculation.
    It is similar to how Eddie Venom reduces enemy protect tile strength, in a kinetic way, which is like an active-passive. If he's stunned or downed they return to their 'normal' strength. 

    Calculate what a match 3 should do for damage, and be sure to add in the strike tile values. It will be more due to his kinetic (acitve-passive) buff.

    Something like a black match at 85 damage each with 5 strikes on the board of 354 strength:
    85 x 3 + (354 x 5)x 1.25 = 2,467
    Check the math, I can't test it until I champ Pun, ha!

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