The slow death of the 3*-4* transition

Tryke

I'm not refuting anything, just curious.

For those that are able to consistently hit 1k with 3* only, how do you do it? Do you use your cookie cutter strongest teams like cagefist? Do you shield hop? Do you use boosted toons?

I'm having difficulty reaching the 800 mark most of the time and I am primarily a 3* player. Mostly due to running out of health packs around that point.

chamber44

elusive wrote:

Monged4life wrote:

I've been playing a year now and it never stops amazing me that after a whole damn year of frequent play, I still have no remotely usable 4*. As stated above the gap gets bigger every day and with almost all progression 4* and above being either placement related (competing against 5* rosters...) or random there's little I can do to improve.

Funny, I was coming in here to post the same thing. My main problem is that events are so tough to place well that I would have to spend money almost every single time if I wanted to score even one four star cover. I think the most I've ever managed to scrape together in a PvP is around 900 points, whereas plenty of others were doubling that. It's gotten to the point where I typically won't play much past DDQ any more, and that event is so randomly tough now that I don't really even look forward to booting the game up.

yep. I still play, and enjoy it mostly, but as referenced above, there's still just so much luck that's in the game, and broken game mechanics. In the Women of Power event, i climbed to 840 with a rotating cast of 3*'s (since I lack a useable 4*) and my single (red) cover of JGP (buffed to 355!). And then, while trying to find a match that wasn't against a 350 T4or/350 Jean Grey, i got hit for 200pts in the span of 3-6 minutes. I probably should have tossed a shield up while cycling through, but i'm saving my HP for roster slots so I can roster the GG cover i have pending.

But - and here's the luck factor: after a drought of over 80 LT's, I now have four 5*'s : OML, GG (when I roster him), JGP, and BiB Spidey, yet I still have no useable 4's (4Clops and Rulk are closest, but both under 180 and 9/11 covers respectively). Scaling is about to murder me, isn't it?

Slarow

Tryke wrote:

I'm not refuting anything, just curious.

For those that are able to consistently hit 1k with 3* only, how do you do it? Do you use your cookie cutter strongest teams like cagefist? Do you shield hop? Do you use boosted toons?

I'm having difficulty reaching the 800 mark most of the time and I am primarily a 3* player. Mostly due to running out of health packs around that point.

If you want to hit 1k as 3*, you have to shield hop at least once or twice. Maybe you don't do it when the reward is IW, save your hp for when its JG/HB/whoever you are closest to being usable. Also, try different shards. It may make more sense to go to a shard that isn't ideal for you time-wise, but is much easier to hit 1k as it is more populated.

madok

chamber44 wrote:

But - and here's the luck factor: after a drought of over 80 LT's, I now have four 5*'s : OML, GG (when I roster him), JGP, and BiB Spidey, yet I still have no useable 4's (4Clops and Rulk are closest, but both under 180 and 9/11 covers respectively). Scaling is about to murder me, isn't it?

Most likely no because as long as you aren't leveling those 5*s, your 3*s will get boosted to comparable levels for events and you really won't notice a big difference. 5*s only kill those people with zero 166+ 3*s.

Slarow

chamber44 wrote:

I still have no useable 4's (4Clops and Rulk are closest, but both under 180 and 9/11 covers respectively). Scaling is about to murder me, isn't it?

Being that close, you should be saving your CP's and purchasing the last two Rulk covers directly, and funneling all ISO into him. If you don't already have a championed SWitch, that should be your second priority and run PVP with those two.

carrion_pigeons

I'm at the point where I have teams that are *sometimes* good enough to compete in PvP, depending on who is buffed, up to the 700 breakpoint. And the inconsistency is fine with me - I don't want to try hard in every PvP, but it's rewarding to be able to field a better than average team when the right 3*s work out.

The problem is that the 700 breakpoint offers very little to me in the way of useful rewards. I should be grinding to 1000 to make meaningful progress with my roster, but I stand no chance of doing that with my current roster and without Line coordination. The best teams I can field are target dummies for players above 700 points, even on the best days.

Shockingly, I'm actually at the point where I don't know what to do with my Iso. Not to say that I don't have any places to spend it, but I don't have any *meaningful* places to spend it. I am not capable of improving my ability to field a useful team via spending Iso. Back before I quit a couple years ago, I had decent 166 3* in Patch and Lazy Thor and Hood, but the 3*s I have access to now include none of the top tier ones which are useful for shield hopping or deterring attacks, and without them, my progression is basically halted until I get lucky and open a lot of useful covers for the more recent 3*s that dominate the 3* meta, or else a *whole* bunch of 4*s.

Vhailorx

Slarow wrote:

4* acquisition since Championing and PVE CP's went in has exploded in rate.

A mature 3* team can get 3x 4*s a week from PVP 1k. A mature 3* team can get an additional 25 or 50CP from PVE max prog (plus 12-14 CP from nodes), giving you 2-3 additional Classic pulls each week.

Thats 6 4*s/week.

Throw in hitting 1300 (which you can do once you have one or two good 4*'s), and that's an additional 75CP (3 more classic tokens).

So the current pace is 5-6 4*'s/week for 3* teams, and 8-9 4*'s/week for those that can hit 1300.

If you don't have a 4* that can help you hit 1k or 1.3k, then instead of spending the CP from PVE, save them for direct cover purchases. Once you get that 4*, you can shoot for 1k/1.3k

I disagree with several of these points (not trying to pick on slarow specifically, this was just the most concise statement of these arguments that have been advanced by several posters).

(1) As others have pointed out, max 3* teams can no longer always hit 1k in PVP. With weaker 3*s and MUCH stronger 4*s, it takes a decent bit of luck and 1-3 shield hops even when a good 3* team is boosted for the week. And forget about it if you have 2 mid-tier 3*s that aren't boosted. That's a lot of time/money spent. So I suspect that very few pure 3* players are getting 1k in all three pvp events every week. You then also assume that every one with a few 4*s (no discussion of how long it might take to get those 4*s) will immediately start getting 75 CP a week from the 1.3K progs. 1.3 progs is a lot of work, even with a decent 4* roster. And it's only getting harder as more and more 5*s and champ 4*s with 25-30k health start showing up above 1k. I think these arguments wildly understate the difficult of getting the maximum prog rewards out of all 3 PVP events each week.

(2) even assuming that a 3* transitioner could get every possible LT and 4* cover out of PVP in even event, it would still take forever to get a maxed 4*. Any given 4* will only be the 1k reward every 9-10 weeks or so (and that number is only increasing as the 4* pool grows). that is the ONLY way to reliably target given 4*s. Finishing top 10 in pve events is not easy enough to do that it can be achieved on demand (espeically for desirable 4*s). And LTs currently offer a 3.6 percent change of dropping any given 4* (again, a number that is only getting worse for players). 6ish draws a week against a 3.3% chance of success still doesn't produce very good odds. LTs will just result in a roster that broad, but shallow. That's a nice complement to other systems that let players target desirable covers. But there really isn't any such system for 4*s other than the 1k cover (which is hard for 3* players as discussed above).

(3) direct cover purchases are no longer an antidote. at 120cp per cover, it would take months for typical players to save up the CP for even a handful of covers. Hell, even a $99.99 buyers club only nets you enough cp for 1 4* cover with 1 classic LT left over.

Back when 3*s were the end game, every player had the chance to earn as many as 5 covers for 3 different 3* characters each weak in PVP alone (plus tokens). Even as the 3* pool grew, it was still possible for top 100 alliance players to more or less keep pace with the character release rate. At this time last year, I would generally get 3 covers from a release pve, another 2-4 covers from the first pvp events. Then, with a couple of lucky token pulls (or newly unveiled ddq rewards), I would max the character whenever they rotated back into the pvp/pve schedule. I was a mid-to-high tier, f2p veteran, and I could more or less keep pace with the 3* release rate if I ground hard in almost every event and stayed in a top alliance.

what about now? 4*s still come out at the same pace. But they drop less frequently from regular tokens, cost immensely more money to direct buy, and it's only possible to earn a guaranteed 1 cover per Pvp event. I disagree with Pylgrim's premise only insofar as this has been an obvious long term threat to the health of the game since basically april 2015 when the 4* release rate really picked up. In all other respects, he is completely correct. The current system is heavily weighted in favor of those who had maxed, top-tier 4*s prior to Champion Day. It's incredibly hard for transitioners to catch up, even if they want to spend a ton of money.

I get that demiurge/d3 need to make money, so they can't give out covers too liberally, but they really have to allow players to target specific 4* covers more easily. 4* cover(s) should be given out for at least the top 50 finishers in every pve, and probably the top 50 for each pvp event as well.

Dragon_Nexus

Slarow wrote:

4* acquisition since Championing and PVE CP's went in has exploded in rate.

A mature 3* team can get 3x 4*s a week from PVP 1k. A mature 3* team can get an additional 25 or 50CP from PVE max prog (plus 12-14 CP from nodes), giving you 2-3 additional Classic pulls each week.

Thats 6 4*s/week.

Throw in hitting 1300 (which you can do once you have one or two good 4*'s), and that's an additional 75CP (3 more classic tokens).

So the current pace is 5-6 4*'s/week for 3* teams, and 8-9 4*'s/week for those that can hit 1300.

If you don't have a 4* that can help you hit 1k or 1.3k, then instead of spending the CP from PVE, save them for direct cover purchases. Once you get that 4*, you can shoot for 1k/1.3k

I agree that getting 4* covers is a lot easier than it used to be, but for a lot of us we got a boost of max forty 4* covers from championing and found ourselves with a lot more usable 4*s than before...and no ISO to level them up.

That's my major struggle now. I can actually start using the 4*s I have but they're so underlevelled that they still get stomped on.

Slarow

Vhailorx wrote:

(3) direct cover purchases are no longer an antidote. at 120cp per cover, it would take months for typical players to save up the CP for even a handful of covers. Hell, even a $99.99 buyers club only nets you enough cp for 1 4* cover with 1 classic LT left over.

In a given month, there are approximately 2 7day pve events, and 5 3 day pve events. That's 7 events x 25 max prog, which is 175cp per month. Add in ~27 days of pve nodes x2 cp, and thats ~225cp/month, just from PVE, almost enough for 2 covers.

Yes, you aren't going to buy your way up from a 1/3/1, but if you are at, say, 10 covers, you could do it in a month and a half on PVE alone.

Your statement that direct cover purchases are no longer an antidote is the false mindset which is getting people discouraged about 4* progression. I wish I had the ability to do this 9 months ago when I was sitting with a 10 cover HB for 6 months, stuck squarely in 3* land with no ability to get myself out.

Slarow

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I agree that getting 4* covers is a lot easier than it used to be, but for a lot of us we got a boost of max forty 4* covers from championing and found ourselves with a lot more usable 4*s than before...

Exactly. Anyone who was "stuck in the 3-4* transition" when championing hit had a bunch of 166 3*s (I had 20 myself), and over the course of a few weeks championed all of them, netting 20 4*+ covers, which was a huge boost to the transition, and put a bunch of 4*'s in range of maxing via direct cp purchase.

Vhailorx

Slarow wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

(3) direct cover purchases are no longer an antidote. at 120cp per cover, it would take months for typical players to save up the CP for even a handful of covers. Hell, even a $99.99 buyers club only nets you enough cp for 1 4* cover with 1 classic LT left over.

In a given month, there are approximately 2 7day pve events, and 5 3 day pve events. That's 7 events x 25 max prog, which is 175cp per month. Add in ~27 days of pve nodes x2 cp, and thats ~225cp/month, just from PVE, almost enough for 2 covers.

Yes, you aren't going to buy your way up from a 1/3/1, but if you are at, say, 10 covers, you could do it in a month and a half on PVE alone.

Your statement that direct cover purchases are no longer an antidote is the false mindset which is getting people discouraged about 4* progression. I wish I had the ability to do this 9 months ago when I was sitting with a 10 cover HB for 6 months, stuck squarely in 3* land with no ability to get myself out.

And how long does it take for a current 3* transitioner to get 10 covers for any given 4*, let alone one of the 5-7ish 4*s good enough to justify a direct buy?

It's also worth breaking down the underlying assumptions of your math. First, I concede that a deep 3* roster should be able to compete for CP prog rewards in most PVE events; scaling isn't that much of a problem. Assuming you have access to all nodes (see below), getting the max prog reward basically takes about 3 optimum clears for each sub (it can be done less than optimally too, but hitting nodes a few more times to make up for the missing points). Each full clear takes 40+minutes for most players (faster with boosts/speed play, but I think my number is fair), and maybe a bit more grinding out those 2 CP match rewards if you don't get lucky. So your baseline assumption is asking people to play ~2.33 hours of PVE (not counting PVP, or ddq) every day without fail for 6 weeks just to buy 3 covers (and of course they must already have played for months to get the first 10 covers).

Additionally, most transitioners won't have every available 4*. And if they don't, then hitting that max prog in pve gets a lot harder since you won't get those high-value 4* essential nodes (and you will lose 1cp a day as well).

All of this seems like a fairly big ask of the player base to me.

Redrobot30

Tryke wrote:

I'm not refuting anything, just curious.

For those that are able to consistently hit 1k with 3* only, how do you do it? Do you use your cookie cutter strongest teams like cagefist? Do you shield hop? Do you use boosted toons?

I'm having difficulty reaching the 800 mark most of the time and I am primarily a 3* player. Mostly due to running out of health packs around that point.

It's not terribly hard to get to 1k in PvP with nothing but 3*s...

It boils down to 2 variables for me. The boosted characters for the week and the time slice you join. The boosted characters have a lesser effect if you have a lot of your 3*s maxed already because then you can use a wider range of characters as you make a final climb at the end of the event, but you want your highest characters fighting your last battles to avoid getting hit by other people.

The time slice really only matters for one thing, the ending time. You have to be able to make a good climb within the last 10, 9 or fewer hours of the event. It's too much of a massacre in the last 3 hours so you need to climb before everyone is doing their final shield hops.

So with that the strategy is to be around the 500-600 mark in points before you make that last climb to 1k. To do that you have to play just enough matches to stay out of the top 100. Usually if you stay around the 120-150 rank range you won't get attacked by other people. So it is a slow climb of maybe fighting 1 or 2 matches every chunk of hours or so, that time can vary, but usually I find myself playing only a couple of matches to get to this range.

Doing this I have been able to reach 1k in pretty much every event I want to for the last 3 or so seasons without even using shields to make that point. I only use shields to protect my points at the end of events so I can get the placement rewards, usually top 50 unless I'm swimming with the megawhales, then it's still at least top 100.

DaveR4470

Preach on, brother Pylgrim. I'm right there with you.

I have rostered most of the 4*s available... but only with a few covers. And because I didn't get the RIGHT characters covered in the RIGHT way at the RIGHT time (e.g. Hulkbuster or Jean when they came out)... I'm permanently behind the curve now.

1000 points in PvP? Used to be doable with a couple of shield hops. Now? I start seeing Jeanbuster teams at 500 points. Can I beat a Jeanbuster team with my roster? Yes, I can. But there's a difference between "I can beat it" and "I can beat it with enough health remaining that I don't have to use 3 health packs just to fight another match." The latter -- ain't happening. I haven't seen 800, let alone 1000, in weeks, and frankly don't bother even trying anymore. It's not worth the expenditure of time.

Maybe those 5*s sitting in my roster would help, if there was any iso to level them..... Probably not, though.

I'm sure the progression legendaries would help if I had the sort of time needed to clear every stage of every event at least three times.

So MPQ is pretty much reduced, now, to DDQ (which I still really enjoy, mind you! I like trying different teams on the Enchilada to see how they work together, and that's entertaining), and whatever random stuff I do to kill time, and every week and a half or so I've gotten enough ISO to level up one of my non-max 3*s. I try to hit the 10-pack for the season, and the top simulator award, but beyond that.... there's just little point in bothering.

Such a shame.

Slarow

DaveR4470 wrote:

Preach on, brother Pylgrim. I'm right there with you.

I have rostered most of the 4*s available... but only with a few covers. And because I didn't get the RIGHT characters covered in the RIGHT way at the RIGHT time (e.g. Hulkbuster or Jean when they came out)... I'm permanently behind the curve now.

1000 points in PvP? Used to be doable with a couple of shield hops. Now? I start seeing Jeanbuster teams at 500 points. Can I beat a Jeanbuster team with my roster? Yes, I can. But there's a difference between "I can beat it" and "I can beat it with enough health remaining that I don't have to use 3 health packs just to fight another match." The latter -- ain't happening. I haven't seen 800, let alone 1000, in weeks, and frankly don't bother even trying anymore. It's not worth the expenditure of time.

Maybe those 5*s sitting in my roster would help, if there was any iso to level them..... Probably not, though.

I'm sure the progression legendaries would help if I had the sort of time needed to clear every stage of every event at least three times.

So MPQ is pretty much reduced, now, to DDQ (which I still really enjoy, mind you! I like trying different teams on the Enchilada to see how they work together, and that's entertaining), and whatever random stuff I do to kill time, and every week and a half or so I've gotten enough ISO to level up one of my non-max 3*s. I try to hit the 10-pack for the season, and the top simulator award, but beyond that.... there's just little point in bothering.

Such a shame.

Are you hitting PVE max prog? Are you saving CP for JG/HB covers?

Vhailorx

Slarow wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I agree that getting 4* covers is a lot easier than it used to be, but for a lot of us we got a boost of max forty 4* covers from championing and found ourselves with a lot more usable 4*s than before...

Exactly. Anyone who was "stuck in the 3-4* transition" when championing hit had a bunch of 166 3*s (I had 20 myself), and over the course of a few weeks championed all of them, netting 20 4*+ covers, which was a huge boost to the transition, and put a bunch of 4*'s in range of maxing via direct cp purchase.

Did we really get a huge boost?

I was well into the 4* transition with championing was released (5 cover maxed 4*s, a fully covered 3* roster all between 120 and 164), and had an iso stockpile in excess of 1.1 million.

In the first 5 weeks after championing, I champed 23 3*S and 3 4*s, so that was 26 LTs (plus a handful more from ddq nodes).

I am certainly not complaining about those tokens. I was happy to have them and they did improve my roster. But I don't know that they actually made a huge difference in the way I play the game.

the good:

--I pulled a handful of covers for my xfw who had been cover maxed @195 for ages
--I pulled a single cover for my max IMHB that has beenthe crown jewel of my roster since June 2015.
--I finished by Xpool (he went from 5/3/3 on Champion day to 5/4/4 with a 14th cover to spare, though I did have to sell another red cover before I saved up the iso to champ him)
--I pulled 5 Phoenix covers (2/1/2). She is a nice shiny trophy for my roster, but not strong enough to actually use except for fun
--I pulled a random smattering of 1-2 covers for the other big 4*s: JG, Iceman, Rulk, Cyc. (None of them are above 8 covers as of today)

The indifferent:
--I pulled a second black SS cover. Yay?
--I added several covers to weak or mid-tier 4*s Flaptain, Fantastic, and TA Hulk, antman, ghost rider.

the bad:
--I pulled many covers that had to be sold off because I couldn't use them (several each for Fury, Elektra, 4* Thor, and one for Kingpin)
--I burned my entire Iso stockpile and am not living hand-to-level up button in terms of iso.

Overall, it's definitely a net positive change for me. But it hasn't actually altered the way I play the game. Pre championing, I started PVP events using the best sustainable team of true healers or defensive characters to climb, and then switched to IMHB/IF to make the final jump from 750-1k (usually against Jeanbusters or other top tier 4* opponents at the very end). Post championiong, I start PVP events using the best available team of true healers or defensive characters to climb, before switching to IMHB/IF to make a final push to 1k (usually against a lot of jeanbusters).

So I don't know if that's a "huge boost." I know a lot of this stuff is a matter of glass half-full/glass half-empty perspective, and I am certainly not inclined to give those covers back. But I don't really feel like I have taken a big step forward, so much as I was able to make several months' progress in a years' long path over the course of about 6 weeks. I distinctly remember when I got my first 3* team ready to push past 94 and entered the rarefied air of (then) end-game PVP play. It really did feel like a huge change to the way I played and thought about the game. I had the same experience in June 2015 when I finished both my Iron Fist and my IMHB in a span of two weeks and suddenly was (temporarily) able to join the bully squad at the top of PVP leader boards. I suspect I would feel the same if I was able to max out my Iceman or Rulk tomorrow, or if I pulled 5 more OML covers. The boost from championing was significantly smaller for me (and most other players too I would suspect unless they got very lucky).

Bulls

If every malcontent that waste so much time on writing how bad it is would spend half of that time actually playing then their problem with progression would be way smaller. Also seems like a lot of ppl put so much emphasis on progressing, transitioning and whatnot instead of actually enjoying what mpq really is - a match-3 game.

TheWerebison

Bulls wrote:

If every malcontent that waste so much time on writing how bad it is would spend half of that time actually playing then their problem with progression would be way smaller. Also seems like a lot of ppl put so much emphasis on progressing, transitioning and whatnot instead of actually enjoying what mpq really is - a match-3 game.

I'm confused. Have you played the game?

Dragon_Nexus

Slarow wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I agree that getting 4* covers is a lot easier than it used to be, but for a lot of us we got a boost of max forty 4* covers from championing and found ourselves with a lot more usable 4*s than before...

Exactly. Anyone who was "stuck in the 3-4* transition" when championing hit had a bunch of 166 3*s (I had 20 myself), and over the course of a few weeks championed all of them, netting 20 4*+ covers, which was a huge boost to the transition, and put a bunch of 4*'s in range of maxing via direct cp purchase.

you're missing part of my point.
Sure, I have a bunch more viable 4*s now, but I'm so ISO starved as to make them continually useless. My best is my level 221 Xpool 5/5/3. I'd been pouring ISO into him but it feels like an insanely long road to get him to level 270. I still haven't got a 13 cover Hulkbuster. Only recently got my 13th Nick Fury cover. Still don't have Jean's passive. I'd like to use X-23 more, but I don't have 5 covers for any of her abilities so she doesn't hit as hard as she should.

Getting 4* covers is easier, sure. But getting *specific* covers is still far too hard when the game is still designed around a 3* mindset regarding prizes.

SnowcaTT

Match-3 is hard to indefinitely enjoy when you fall behind those that are progressing faster than you, or there is half of the game that you don't have access to.

I understand what Slarow is saying (PVE = lots of CP/LT's)...but I also understand what that requires. If I had no family, no job, no other hobbies, and didn't mind not sleeping 8 consecutive hours ever, I could hit PVE for an hour three times a day, and three hours one of those three. PVE is a way to get into the 4* transition, but it's also a way to burn out as you get out of the 3* transition. Lots of vets just can't take doing those same PVE nodes over, and over, and over again as they get into the second year of the game.

I've posted original and in several threads like this one that we need more consistent ways to get specific 4*'s, the transition time is getting more ridiculous with each successive release.

ISO is definitely another big hold-up. After champion day I had enough covers to be able to (probably) DDQ 4* all of the characters were out at that time. But make them PVP usable? Hah! I have thirteen sitting at a good DDQ level (172), the bulk of them could be leveled...once I find that ISO.

To the point of getting new covers though...I think I got very lucky and have six Nova's, the most of any post-champion 4*. I probably have no more than three of any other. I doubt I would have any of them useful in the next year, nor do I really know what any of their abilities are since I can't use them. It can't be healthy for the game when only a very few can get access to your characters within a reasonable space of time - even if that space of time is determined to be over a year. Lots of replies in this thread of 1+ year, no great 4* roster.

Slarow

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Slarow wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

I agree that getting 4* covers is a lot easier than it used to be, but for a lot of us we got a boost of max forty 4* covers from championing and found ourselves with a lot more usable 4*s than before...

Exactly. Anyone who was "stuck in the 3-4* transition" when championing hit had a bunch of 166 3*s (I had 20 myself), and over the course of a few weeks championed all of them, netting 20 4*+ covers, which was a huge boost to the transition, and put a bunch of 4*'s in range of maxing via direct cp purchase.

you're missing part of my point.
Sure, I have a bunch more viable 4*s now, but I'm so ISO starved as to make them continually useless. My best is my level 221 Xpool 5/5/3. I'd been pouring ISO into him but it feels like an insanely long road to get him to level 270. I still haven't got a 13 cover Hulkbuster. Only recently got my 13th Nick Fury cover. Still don't have Jean's passive. I'd like to use X-23 more, but I don't have 5 covers for any of her abilities so she doesn't hit as hard as she should.

Getting 4* covers is easier, sure. But getting *specific* covers is still far too hard when the game is still designed around a 3* mindset regarding prizes.

One thing to avoid, if you are not already doing this, don't put ANY iso into character until they are at a cover level where you will actually use them as one of your primary characters. It sounds like you may have been putting ISO into x-23, which you shouldn't until she is ready. If you do, you will waste ISO on characters that may be good eventually, but aren't of use now, and not have ISO to actually boost your new 13 cover characters. Stockpile ISO and spend it all when they hit 13 covers.