'Boosted' Characters Rebalancing Post-Champions

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Comments

  • Lemminkäinen
    Lemminkäinen Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker
    There are three-stars who really benefit from this new system, though: the support ones. Loki, for example, is strictly better now. But it's sad that it's only those that got the real love.
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 5,401 Chairperson of the Boards
    There are three-stars who really benefit from this new system, though: the support ones. Loki, for example, is strictly better now. But it's sad that it's only those that got the real love.
    Are you kidding me?
    Poor Loki has 9K health buffed.
    Buffed JG does 8K AOE on purple.

    It's basically suicide now to run a buffed 3* against buffed 4* teams in PVP.
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    The answer to all of this is 5*

    The game was not ready for them, people got them way to quickly and now they are the priority. 3*, and now even 4* are being broken to get them into the game, but the whole thing is still based on 3*'s with prizes, ISO levels and Pvp. They are moving everything forward but the things we need moved forward
  • Lemminkäinen
    Lemminkäinen Posts: 378 Mover and Shaker
    I think Lemmi meant that blunted scaling on match and ability damage benefits low-health characters.
    That was indeed my reasoning but I can see the other side of the coin, yes.
    My Loki is already up to 189, and still only has 6755 health. Outside of LRs .... unless he's featured in PVP ... I can't see ever using him. Maybe occasionally in sim and pve. Maybe.
    Not even with the weekly buff? That's disappointing. (My Loki is only 169 so quite a bit lower).
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    My Loki is already up to 189, and still only has 6755 health. Outside of LRs .... unless he's featured in PVP ... I can't see ever using him. Maybe occasionally in sim and pve. Maybe.
    Not even with the weekly buff? That's disappointing. (My Loki is only 169 so quite a bit lower).

    And that's precisely the reason why this change is no good at all.
  • Twysta
    Twysta Posts: 1,597 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is all basically done because of the low (and lame) base match damage on 4*s.
    So instead of increasing 4* match damage they nerfed the whole 2* and 3* tier instead.

    Personally I don't have a problem with a "champion" doing more damage than the next tier character at the same level. Surely that is extra incentive in the first place to champion anyone.
    Or you know maybe they could just increase the 4* base match damage. I never understood why their base damage was so low anyway. icon_e_sad.gif
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    even at 266 they aren't that great. and I agree on all the damage dealers - after a few good 4s, no reason to use boosted 3s over 4s. actually in BoP I enjoyed running loki and jean against witch teams. they stunned themselves and I got some ap out of it. he's become very, very niche though (comes in handy against thing and with/against patch). I have a level 55 dupe that I can't decide what to do with. if I ask for deconstruct for champing, loki tanks soars to the front of my 3*s. I use him for trivials sometimes but nothing else. I don't think he's much use. my dupe hood gets used considerably more.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Twysta wrote:
    This is all basically done because of the low (and lame) base match damage on 4*s.
    So instead of increasing 4* match damage they nerfed the whole 2* and 3* tier instead.

    Personally I don't have a problem with a "champion" doing more damage than the next tier character at the same level. Surely that is extra incentive in the first place to champion anyone.
    Or you know maybe they could just increase the 4* base match damage. I never understood why their base damage was so low anyway. icon_e_sad.gif

    As far as I know, they did improve the base damage of 4*s (remember all the threads back then of people complaining that their Winfinite team was ruined because Prof X was now tanking blue?). So yeah, they did improve the 4*s (especially in their boosted levels) and still felt the need to hit 3*s. It seriously boggles the mind.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    but the whole thing is still based on 3*'s with prizes, ISO levels and Pvp. They are moving everything forward but the things we need moved forward

    This is still the key issue for me and it's something I've felt for a long time.
    At the 4* stage when new 3*s had stopped, the game felt like 3* world still. You aimed for 3* and hoped for 4* if you worked towards hitting 1000 points in PvP or whatevs. I was building my 3*s up and getting ready to move onto 4*s. I finished my 3* roster pretty much as championing came into effect.

    3*s became useful again, at least. I wasn't facing months of opening up tokens and going "Ugh. Gold, but not pulsing. Lame."
    But even so, before championing the change to 4* was well under way. They'd become the tier to strive for. So having PvP and PvE still regard them as holy relics you need to fight tooth and nail for was just odd to me. I mean, before the 4*s really started kicking in, if 3*s were offered only to the top 25s it would have killed the game off due to the unobtainable nonsense of never really being able to get enough 3* covers.

    Still though, covers are somewhat less important compared to ISO now. ISO rewards aren't bad if you're in 1-3* land. There was a point where I'd saved up a ton of ISO because I didn't know what to do with it, but that's long gone. Now I'm at the point where DDQ levels up some of my 4*s once and that's it. The good old days of creeping up a couple of levels at a time with DDQ are gone, it seems.

    And now that PvP is more difficult to compete in due to my underlevelled 4*s and my underpowered 3*s I can't even get the 1000 point 4* cover. I consider myself lucky if I finish top 100 any more.
  • tizian2015
    tizian2015 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
    I spend about 2 times the amount for a normal fullpricegame (PC/console) and I regret it. I´m on day 191, I bought HP for slots and i own 72 Chars. I entered 3* land right after championsystem was included (Hulk). I never get benefits from boosts for 3*stars prenerf, but now (PVE-ISO-Brotherhood) i realized, that my boosted 2* storm (full-leveled 144 champion) has the same damage with blue as it was before championsystem. What sense does it make to invest 50 Covers to get it back to the point where it was before? Championsystem does nothing for me except some HP and covers but as i use only boosted chars in pvp and pve (thats why im a collector to have everything what is needed) i´m at the same point where i was before. In PVP i´m just a piece of cake, i have 5 3* champions and in my brackets the top10 is full of 5* champions and i´m attacked at 300 from full championed 4* teams (except featured char), mostly jeanbusters (is it the goal of the developers to get only one team used?). My PVE-scaling is the same or higher than before, but my damage is lower than before! How to get covers in an acceptable (!!!) way if i have to compete with 4*s and 5*, which are not nerfed? I regret every penny!

    If I knew this before, i would not invest just one penny. This game ist mostly for players, that played it from the beginning. New players have no chance to close the gap without "investing" thousands! Matchmaking and scaling(scaling difficulty but not scaling rewards) is totally broken.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    tizian2015 wrote:
    i realized, that my boosted 2* storm (full-leveled 144 champion) has the same damage with blue as it was before championsystem. What sense does it make to invest 50 Covers to get it back to the point where it was before?
    I completely agree with this sentiment. and I'm well past using 2s and with the nerf, I don't use 3s much anymore, other than supports like witch, hood, and im40. I miss the days where I considered a boosted kk nearly as good as an unboosted jean. or a boosted cyke nearly as good as an unboosted hb or 4cyke. now there is a wide, wide gap with them at similar levels. makes pvp easier for me from below, but I'd prefer pve eased by stronger boosted 3s.
  • ClydeFrog76
    ClydeFrog76 Posts: 1,350 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wow. "Boosted" RotP is...bad. Really bad.

    Black Panther feels like an ickle tabby cat now.
  • Oldboy
    Oldboy Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
    A few points i'd like to make after playing with the championed 3* for about 2 months

    1) Even using Boosted championed 3*, i run into difficuly taking down overlevelled 2*. Shows how bad the nerf was to 3*. I can still win but it becomes a slog especially the Dark Avengers powers are so AP cheap to use and being overlevelled means they hit for a lot harder.

    2) The enemy teams in PVE are not championed. Instead they have 15 covers and are overlevelled which gives them a big advantage. Meanwhile even with champions, i'm still stuck with 13 covers at most for any one character.

    3) what was the point of the Champion system again?

    Edit:
    That's not to say there are no good points about the Champion system. Getting the HP, tokens and Cp is great. Being able to re-spec is great too. But the nerf to the characters eclipses the good points for me.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,550 Chairperson of the Boards
    atomzed wrote:
    Having a higher star tier character must feel like an upgrade over the lower star tier. That gives a sense of progression, when you feel that you have a better roster than before. Hence, a gap is definitely necessary.

    I think most will agree that a gap is necessary (as it is absurd if a 1* is as good as a 3*).

    The point of contention will always be about the size of the gap between the stars tier. This is hard to determine... I personally feel that the 5*-4* gap is too big.

    Before the nerf, the 3*-4* gap is too small. Characters like Antman and Fury and Wolverine are rarely played even when boosted.

    So I am glad to see them increaSing the 4*-3* gap, so that people will feel that it is worthwhile leveling those mid tier 4*.

    The characters that you mention need fixes (or acceptance of their niche) rather than a whole star level needing inherent boosts, the gap between 3* and 4* should be more along the lines of powers and match damage be more incremental with the bigger difference being their relative hp levels i.e. in a 3* vs 4* fight the latter should win by being able to outlast the former rather than squishing them like a bug.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,296 Chairperson of the Boards
    Blade's PVP is very telling of the current situation. Blade used to be formidable at level 290. Now? What use is to place down two giant attack tiles dealing 2500+ per turn when you are facing from very early on 23k HP Carnages that almost levels your team with as little as 7 AP? After trying to shield hop from 800 points and between wipes, 5-minute long, harrowing battles eating 3 health packs each and being attacked several times in those minutes by teams with around 1000 of total levels, each "hop" lost more point than it earned, constituting a net loss of hero points, so sadly, I had to give up.

    Boosted 4*s are ridiculously powerful now, clearly meant to be able to take mid-size 5*s. In reality that only means that they will be obliterating 3* teams in literal seconds, while they cannot retaliate or do so at horribly diminished stakes. And the devs felt the need to additionally nerf 3*s? It boggles the mind.
  • Uthgarprime
    Uthgarprime Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
    You all have champions all wrong, the sole purpose of that was to trick you into thinking you were getting something good when they nerfed the 3*'s. They nerfed 3 *'s so you would buy more ISO from the store so you could level your 4 and 5 *'s so you could play. you are not playing like they want you to. The supposed scaling fix coming is going to do the opposite of what everyone wants. They are going to make it worse by upping it for those people that don't max level to try to force you to buy even more ISO from the store to level them quickly to deal with scaling. Its the same reason they added health to some heroes, so that the matches take longer and you take more damage thus making it so you will want to buy health packs. This company wants to punish its players for not playing the way they want you to.
  • gigatilburg29
    gigatilburg29 Posts: 88 Match Maker
    This has becoming really the worst game/company ever. I regret spending any money into this s***hole game. I now only play Deadpool Daily which gives me around 5000 iso daily.....I sense I will be quitting alltogether in the near future as I dont see any point playing futher. Spending iso to max the rest if my 3stars has really no point left. This is the prime example when a company only cares about money money and money.

    Preparing us for this "big cool" feature what in the end was a big scam. David then has the nerve to say in the topic "we appreciate your feedback on this" and after 12 pages of complaints not a one single word about taking our feedback into consideration. The whole game is broken, the rewards systems, iso shortage, the tokens that mostly gives 2 stars, the vault with 300 items which has 200 2 star items.......with the current state 3 starts are the 2 stars. I could go on and go on.....
  • Cartz
    Cartz Posts: 73 Match Maker
    I hope they get this new matchmaking system out soon. I used to be able to compete. Not get top rewards but compete with my 3* roster. Now after nerf I struggle to get to 800 in PvP. Matches take to long and use to many health packs. Plus any decent 4* team sees me as an easy target. I can't get to 1000 now. It was already tough.

    Plus now I was "lucky" enough to draw 2 5* my pve matchmaking has gone to hell. It's a struggle just to get the cp rewards. I really get little enjoyment now. Just a massive grind frustration. For maybe something I can use.

    Plus with 4's constantly being released I have all the characters with 1 useless cover.

    My already slow progression has pretty much come to a complete halt.
  • OK OK I know this won't help with the issue much but here is some humor on the subject I try and imagine my self as a fly on the wall listening to the devs talk some times here's what this one sounded like. Now remember this is for humor only I don't really think you guys are like this skit is written. (DevA) has been dealing with negative feedback issues that are effecting his attitude towards players. (DevB) is working on next week's PvP event lists. (ACC) = accounting department person

    (DevA) So here is what I think we should tweak on and break this week guy's. The PvP system. Why you ask because we haven't heard much bad feedback on this in a while.
    (DevB) Oh great here he goes again.
    (ACC) Let's let him finish what he's thinking go ahead.
    (DevA) OK here is what I am thinking and I offer you this new challenge Mr B. Your goal you have to obtain is 800 points in PvP.
    (DevB) Thats easily done with a little work we know this.
    (DevA) True but now is where the challenge starts to come you have to reach it by less then 40 points per fight.
    (DevB) OK so average out to around 25 fights still not to bad.
    (DevA) Oh really then let's add the new champion grades to the mix V.S your normal characters.
    (DevB) OK a bit rougher but still do able with the right team of 4*s and maybe a 5* or two.
    (DevA) No you have 3*s like your average new players do let's say four or five different ones around level 45-50.
    (DevB) OK this is starting to become slightly annoying now. I still get the dev special of endless ISO so I can do it.
    (DevA) No I said average new player so you get maybe 1500 ISO. And before you ask only ten health packs. Oh and when you lose a fight you where in control of you lose maybe 5 points. And ones you couldn't control you can lose as much as 30 depending on the random generator.
    (DevB) Wait what you mean something I didn't know was happening makes me lose more then the fight I picked and lost and the clock for HP recovery is still the same. And what about health packs.
    (DevA) Still the same 30 min cool down timer.
    (ACC) this sounds devilish and profitable for the company.
    (DevB) How come you want them to fight 5 maybe 6 PvP fights and wait 5 hours to try again?
    (DevA) Simple it's been a bad week for me.
    (ACC) no they can buy more health packs at 50 or 200 hundred hero coins.
    (DevB) You two really want to ruin our players experience and expectations like this?
    (BigBoss) This is to be done no more debateing throw all the great parts of the PvP system out and keep all these new suggestions in.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,256 Chairperson of the Boards
    Here is the issue as pointed out many times before. A boosted 3* should be able to hang with and be nearly as good as an unboosted 4*. So a level 240 3* shouldn't be that much worse than a level 270 4* but the developers believed otherwise with the 3* nerf. With the nerf though the difference is way more than you would expect from a 30 level difference. 4* will always be better because they are boosted too and can go way higher in levels than a 3* can ever go. The problem with how they nerfed the 3* ranks was that it placed a massive divide within the player base that was not there before. The better way to nerf would have been to make the extra levels from the boost beyond level 266 less powerful if that is what they were worried about, don't nerf the levels from 166-266 as they did. It will take me and most 3*-4* transitioners forever to get 100 covers for a 3* character, so why hurt us now when you could have delayed the nerf until the last "boosted" levels if you were worried about them becoming too good. An unboosted level 266 3* should be as good as a level 270 4* character. In some cases better if it is a top tier 3* vs. a lower to mid tier 4*. That is an issue with character creation and balancing (looking at you Elektra, TA Hulk etc.), not between 3* or 4*.