*** Black Panther (T'Challa) ***

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Comments

  • Phantron wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    General rule of thumb with 3*'s is they generally don't become better than a 2* until you can get them to about lvl 95. My L.Thor didn't surpass Baby Thor in all categories until level 97 if I remember correctly so yeah, unless you can get Panther to 95ish I wouldn't pump any ISO into him.

    3* lag behind their 2* counterpart in ability damage (which is generally the most important part of a character) until level 110 or so. Lazy Thor's ability damage far surpasses any comparable 3* and should not be used as a standard. To put things in perspective, there are very few abilities that does more damage than Wolverine's Adamantium Slash even at level 141. So, unless your character is way ahead of the power curve (like lazy Thor), you should not expect their ability damage to beat 2*s until they're very high level. Black Panther is powerful, but he's not lazy Thor "all my abilities do roughly twice the damage as anyone else's" powerful.

    I have to agree with Spoit. Thats a horrible comparision, Wolverine is just a straight up damage dealer his only utility is the ability to create strike tiles is doesn't matter is your talking the 2*, 3*, or 4*. If your going to compare him it has to be to a straight up damage dealer like say Patch or Torch. 2* Wolverine does 2884 damage for 12 AP or 240 damage per AP, Torch does 2891 for 8AP (effectively 6) or 361 (482) damage per AP. While Patches damage is based on tiles with his icon, at max lvl assuming he has his icon on 2 colors, (2 out of 7 tile types * 69 Tiles on a board, roughly 20 tiles) 216 damage per tile times 20 tiles is 4320 damage at a cost of 14 AP or 309 damage per AP.

    And here is a list of Characters that do more damage at 141:
    BP
    LC
    LT
    HT
    Patch
    cMags
    BWGS
    DD (assuming a trap is activated)

    Thats a fair chunk of 3* and once you take away those that have only utility abilities (ie Falcon, Spidey, Hood, etc) and those that only have 2 abilities currently (ie Ragnarok, Loki, Doctor Doom) the list of characters he does more damage than is small and filled with characters who's damage is hard to calculate as its situational. (ie Punisher who as a finishing move against your average 3* with 5800 HP is going to do 2,320 damage at a cost of 8AP or 290 damage per AP, or Psylocke who if you compare her Psychic Knive which creates stike tiles as well to 2* wolverine's Feral claws and Adamantium Slash is a way better deal)
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Rorex wrote:
    While Patches damage is based on tiles with his icon, at max lvl assuming he has his icon on 2 colors, (2 out of 7 tile types * 69 Tiles on a board, roughly 20 tiles) 216 damage per tile times 20 tiles is 4320 damage at a cost of 14 AP or 309 damage per AP.
    Erm, why 69? I notice it time after time in your posts. There are 64 tiles (8 rows, 8 columns).
  • locked wrote:
    Rorex wrote:
    While Patches damage is based on tiles with his icon, at max lvl assuming he has his icon on 2 colors, (2 out of 7 tile types * 69 Tiles on a board, roughly 20 tiles) 216 damage per tile times 20 tiles is 4320 damage at a cost of 14 AP or 309 damage per AP.
    Erm, why 69? I notice it time after time in your posts. There are 64 tiles (8 rows, 8 columns).

    Must be a freudian slip.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Think I'm going to have to start lvling up the BP. After SHIELD supply I'll have him at 4/3/5 and I'm getting to the point where I could really start to use him. I still need to finish my Thor, Cap, Hood, and Magneto, but they are solid at 131, 110, 121, and 105 respectively, BP's only at 50 and I would really love to try a BP, Patch, Magneto team before Mags gets nerfed
  • Can anyone tell me the difference at max level in 4 yellow to 5 yellow and 4 blue to 5 blue? My panther is 3/5/5 right now and I am unsure on using the 4th yellow. I just don't see it being worth it to have one strike tile for that much yellow
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    sms4002 wrote:
    Can anyone tell me the difference at max level in 4 yellow to 5 yellow and 4 blue to 5 blue? My panther is 3/5/5 right now and I am unsure on using the 4th yellow. I just don't see it being worth it to have one strike tile for that much yellow
    5 yellow increases strike tile strength slightly; 4 blue maxes out at 5 protect tiles while 5 blue increases their strength. 5-3-5 is the way to go, what do you want with delayed protection? It's much worse than IM 35's yellow even - that skill deals immediate damage and puts down protect tiles right away.
    The only time I used BP's blue at least sometimes was during Heroic Venom where it was one of THE only blue skills available besides Bewilder (which sucked even more because you often stole purple which you couldn't use unless you ran Bag-Man). There were also IM 35's, I believe, and Bag-Man's. I was usually running mStorm/Human Torch/Black Panther.
  • Rorex wrote:
    I have to agree with Spoit. Thats a horrible comparision, Wolverine is just a straight up damage dealer his only utility is the ability to create strike tiles is doesn't matter is your talking the 2*, 3*, or 4*. If your going to compare him it has to be to a straight up damage dealer like say Patch or Torch. 2* Wolverine does 2884 damage for 12 AP or 240 damage per AP, Torch does 2891 for 8AP (effectively 6) or 361 (482) damage per AP. While Patches damage is based on tiles with his icon, at max lvl assuming he has his icon on 2 colors, (2 out of 7 tile types * 69 Tiles on a board, roughly 20 tiles) 216 damage per tile times 20 tiles is 4320 damage at a cost of 14 AP or 309 damage per AP.

    For me personally, I run Patch as a 3/5/5 to use TBTI, so I make sure on any team I use Patch, he tanks 3 colours. On a typical board, that would give him an average of 27 tiles, which makes the damage of TBTI more like 5832 for 14 AP, or 416.5 damage per AP. That's the most powerful Red power in the game (discounting Daredevil's Trap as it's nearly useless in PvP) and only lags behind a few powers per AP spent (Thor CtS, BP Rage, BWGS Sniper, and cMags Translocation).
  • DaveyPitch wrote:
    Rorex wrote:
    I have to agree with Spoit. Thats a horrible comparision, Wolverine is just a straight up damage dealer his only utility is the ability to create strike tiles is doesn't matter is your talking the 2*, 3*, or 4*. If your going to compare him it has to be to a straight up damage dealer like say Patch or Torch. 2* Wolverine does 2884 damage for 12 AP or 240 damage per AP, Torch does 2891 for 8AP (effectively 6) or 361 (482) damage per AP. While Patches damage is based on tiles with his icon, at max lvl assuming he has his icon on 2 colors, (2 out of 7 tile types * 69 Tiles on a board, roughly 20 tiles) 216 damage per tile times 20 tiles is 4320 damage at a cost of 14 AP or 309 damage per AP.

    For me personally, I run Patch as a 3/5/5 to use TBTI, so I make sure on any team I use Patch, he tanks 3 colours. On a typical board, that would give him an average of 27 tiles, which makes the damage of TBTI more like 5832 for 14 AP, or 416.5 damage per AP. That's the most powerful Red power in the game (discounting Daredevil's Trap as it's nearly useless in PvP) and only lags behind a few powers per AP spent (Thor CtS, BP Rage, BWGS Sniper, and cMags Translocation).

    I also find TBTI to be much more consitent that some of the other abilities you mention (Thor CtS, BP Rage, BWGS Sniper, and cMags Translocation) as with the exception of cMags the damage per AP is really based on the # of opponents left. For example Call the Storm with only one opponent left is only doing 275 damage per AP, the same is true of the others. As opponents decrease, damage per AP decreases dramatically. cMags also is less consistent since they nerfed his purple, now your damage is based on the lower of the blue or red tiles available vs Patch's TBTI where your damage is based on the combined number of tiles available in up to 3 colors depending on team composition. The key is to get Patch to tank yellow as it generally isn't matched much and is also necessary for heals. Of course with Falcon now in the mix this may change.
  • Seriously, other than his black this guy is pretty lackluster!! The devs occasionally nerf hero's i.e. Rags, Spidey, Mags but never seen them buff a hero Black Panther and others need some love.
  • viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3801

    Use that thread for Black Panther discussion..

    But yes yellow and blue are meh.
  • As noted above, we generally try to keep all character discussion within a single thread.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    So BP.....

    5/3/5
    3/5/5
    or
    4/4/5?
  • I think 3/5/5 is best because while blue is nothing special, yellow is almost always bad to use on offense. BP is the 2nd best environment character in the game (4 damage, 3.5X) so you should want to pick a favorable environment like Desert or Forest, and if you do using EAP up for Battleplan is a bad idea. The only time I made use of Battleplan was the heroic Venom where you can only play in city and you have Modern Storm, so you rack up a lot of environment AP but you sure aren't using them for hot dogs so you might as well get the strike tiles. I'd only use Battleplan on City or Latveria and I really don't see why I'd ever purposely choose those environments.
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    On defense, yellow is a lot better than blue (there are more so-so environments than really good ones), and you don't care about BP's blue on offense anyway - you only bring him to offense for his black. 5-3-5 all the way.
    Blue doesn't even do anything immediately, yellow at least leaves a strong strike tile whether you have EAP or not.

    Edit: similarly I only *ever* used BP's blue during Heroic Venom when it was one of the only available blues (the other being Bag-Man IIRC). His yellow sucks but it finds more use.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    I think 3/5/5 is best because while blue is nothing special, yellow is almost always bad to use on offense. BP is the 2nd best environment character in the game (4 damage, 3.5X) so you should want to pick a favorable environment like Desert or Forest, and if you do using EAP up for Battleplan is a bad idea. The only time I made use of Battleplan was the heroic Venom where you can only play in city and you have Modern Storm, so you rack up a lot of environment AP but you sure aren't using them for hot dogs so you might as well get the strike tiles. I'd only use Battleplan on City or Latveria and I really don't see why I'd ever purposely choose those environments.

    I'll disagree with the 2nd best

    Hood (3 dmg, 4.5x)
    Punsisher(4dmg,4x)
    GSBW (4dmg,4x)
    and Fury is (4dmg, 3.5x)

    I total hear what you are saying, but I look at it this way. Defensively the AI is gonna cast his yellow no matter what, so. Is it better that his yellow does a better job creating a higher amount of damage, or that his blue protects you for 27 more dmg a tile, and if you are to be so lucky, have 5 of them out. At best thats 226 defense if you got 5 tiles out. I personally would rather take the extra 46 dmg from a strike tile than 27 protect tile dmg. Because in all honesty, when is BP's blue ever going to get out more than 1 maybe 2 shields before the CD timer is destroyed?
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Phantron wrote:
    I think 3/5/5 is best because while blue is nothing special, yellow is almost always bad to use on offense. BP is the 2nd best environment character in the game (4 damage, 3.5X) so you should want to pick a favorable environment like Desert or Forest, and if you do using EAP up for Battleplan is a bad idea. The only time I made use of Battleplan was the heroic Venom where you can only play in city and you have Modern Storm, so you rack up a lot of environment AP but you sure aren't using them for hot dogs so you might as well get the strike tiles. I'd only use Battleplan on City or Latveria and I really don't see why I'd ever purposely choose those environments.

    I'll disagree with the 2nd best

    Hood (3 dmg, 4.5x)
    Punsisher(4dmg,4x)
    GSBW (4dmg,4x)
    and Fury is (4dmg, 3.5x)

    I total hear what you are saying, but I look at it this way. Defensively the AI is gonna cast his yellow no matter what, so. Is it better that his yellow does a better job creating a higher amount of damage, or that his blue protects you for 27 more dmg a tile, and if you are to be so lucky, have 5 of them out. At best thats 226 defense if you got 5 tiles out. I personally would rather take the extra 46 dmg from a strike tile than 27 protect tile dmg. Because in all honesty, when is BP's blue ever going to get out more than 1 maybe 2 shields before the CD timer is destroyed?

    4 and 3.5X is better than 3 and 4.5X. Punisher and GSBW are tied for first. I guess you can call him third.

    His blue has a rather large variance on what it'll do but you can ask the same question to 'how long does any one particular strike tile last until destroyed?' It can be a very long time, or the next turn. I got through one of my tanking games where I had the max defense tiles out and I wasn't even paying attention to what's going on when I used Defense Grid. Of course then there are also plenty of time I thought I had all the blue matches cleared and it still gets destroyed immediately. Such is life but statistically because the AI doesn't even try to target any particular tile, you should expect (64/2*average number of tiles destroyed per player turn) on average before it gets destroyed, and even at 4 tile per turn it's expected to last 8 turns even if it sure doesn't feel like it.

    For the yellow the question is how often are fights on Desert as that's the most relevent environment. It's likely the AI uses Oasis before you'll have 9 yellow AP, and in that case you will end up creating only 1 strike tile most of the time. It sure looks like Desert is extremely popular when it is available. For the other environments, the 1st environment power is usually expensive enough that you can assume you wouldn't have enough to use it before accumulating 9 yellow AP. In those cases yellow would probably be more favorable.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Another question. or maybe 2 or more.

    Perfect 3* roster on hand who do you pair BP with to max BP?

    I would think Sentry fits nicely as he covers 2 needed colors and has a better yellow and it's cheaper. I just wonder what the AI would do with 9AP. Does it cast Sacrifice or Battleplan?

    Do your own shields prevent Sentry damage? I'm not talking about sacrifice dmg to himself, World Rupture, supernova.

    I want to try Hood with BP, and while the AI would cast Hood's Intimidation over RotP, I would wonder since Hood would get targeted first by the attacking player if this would be okay. Plus Panther Tanks for Hood protecting him for you on attacking.

    However using Hood forces me to play red,green,purple if I want rainbow, and I"m not very leveled with BSGW and I think the team would be squishy.

    Thoughts?
  • over_clockedover_clocked Posts: 3,961
    Friendly protect tiles only mitigate enemy damage.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    Another question. or maybe 2 or more.

    Perfect 3* roster on hand who do you pair BP with to max BP?

    I would think Sentry fits nicely as he covers 2 needed colors and has a better yellow and it's cheaper. I just wonder what the AI would do with 9AP. Does it cast Sacrifice or Battleplan?

    Do your own shields prevent Sentry damage? I'm not talking about sacrifice dmg to himself, World Rupture, supernova.

    I want to try Hood with BP, and while the AI would cast Hood's Intimidation over RotP, I would wonder since Hood would get targeted first by the attacking player if this would be okay. Plus Panther Tanks for Hood protecting him for you on attacking.

    However using Hood forces me to play red,green,purple if I want rainbow, and I"m not very leveled with BSGW and I think the team would be squishy.

    Thoughts?

    The AI will cast Sacrifice if they have exactly 8 AP, otherwise it will use Battleplan at 9 or more AP.

    BP has some really bad interaction with other powerful characters on defense.

    That said, earlier today I swear I saw Onslaught (5g) used when the other side had Juggernaut (6g) when they have 9g. If they changed something so that it is not guaranteed to cast the more expensive ability, then it'd help since you almost always want to use Sacrifice over Battleplan.
  • locked wrote:
    On defense, yellow is a lot better than blue (there are more so-so environments than really good ones), and you don't care about BP's blue on offense anyway - you only bring him to offense for his black. 5-3-5 all the way.
    Blue doesn't even do anything immediately, yellow at least leaves a strong strike tile whether you have EAP or not.

    Edit: similarly I only *ever* used BP's blue during Heroic Venom when it was one of the only available blues (the other being Bag-Man IIRC). His yellow sucks but it finds more use.

    Agree on 5/3/5. Part of this is that I usually pair him with CMags, and I'm never going to choose BP's blue in that pairing. But part of it is that non-CD tile power almost always beats CD-tile power, and his blue rarely actually works.
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