Panda's Card Tier List - Updated for 1.3 Patch

Unknown

I've gone and made some updates.

Blue's stuff was tweaked, I made both anchor and disperse A, but tell players to choose between them. I still think 3 bounce is too much.

Sigil was also moved to A because I tried him and he really is great in giving you the options you need.

I can't really decide for Stalwart Aven. I put a note that its usefulness depends on whether you have other flyers. If you have say, Wryn and Archangel, it is kinda pointless, as for 2 more mana you get a far better card. I think I will comfortably stuff it in B with a note that it is one of your more efficient flyers.

Iroas I'm going to keep in C because you will never want to cast her, ever in white.

I don't know how to feel about suppression bonds. I still think its a waste of 6 mana, and I haven't used it yet in play. I didn't even use it prenerf. Hence why I was really confused about the nerf to jailers. I didn't even think it was that prevalent. I put it in B however because it doesn't satisfy the condition that it "makes your deck actively worse".

I wanted to put a note in there about how Gideon could REALLY benefit from card draw, because by far the most powerful card in his hand is enshrouding mist, and he needs to make sure his hand is packed with that as much as possible. 1 creature + 5 shrouding mists would be his best hand. However he doesn't really have many options in this regard, so it is his biggest weakness.

I also moved knightly valor to S and murder investigation to A. Murder only really works with valor, while valor is almost always the second card I play because it is so efficient, esp considering Gideon's 1 nerf. A very, very good card and imo best buffing support ingame. I had simply been playing with it so long I didn't really think too much about it lol.

I also made a few changes to Gideon's text because his 2 really is a lot better relatively than his 1 now. It is always better with 2 or more creatures, and frequently with only 1 creature it is still better to use incase you need a big boost in one round. Only use 1 to put vigilance (or rather, use knightly valor for vigilance).

Unknown

You forgot to mention that Claustrophobia also had its cost increased from 6 to 9. Yeah, it used to be a staple of my Jace deck and now it's trash.

Unknown

I updated the mana cost of Claustrophobia. I think a few other cards also have incorrect mana costs but I can't remember.

XehutL

One quick note - Touch of Moonglove works only on Berserkers (not Defenders).

Also, you are missing Nightsnare spell from the black list.

Unknown

I'm coming around to your thinking on Suppression Bonds. I think the only reason it's still in my deck is because I rarely play white anymore, despite having most rares/mythics and finally getting Enshrouding Mist a couple weeks ago.

I can kind of see where the devs are coming from because it's sort of like repeated removal of one creature as long as it stays on the board. But it really looked bad because of Claustrophobia (which a waste of a slot now) and blue not having any problem clearing the other creatures off the board every turn (pre bounce nerfs). Though it did combo with that removal spell, but I never played that.

I think Titanic Growth is borderline A tier. Green doesn't have many spells worth playing anyway. It practically turns Honered Hierarch into S tier and makes the S tier 5/6 defender even better, keeping it alive to take out more creatures or helping it take out bigger creatures. On top of that it can put a creature out of burn range for a turn, helps to out race the opponent (which is mostly all I do with green anyway) and can end a match a turn earlier which may be a small thing but it can add up. It can be a tempo swing and a rare chance for green to have any shot at any sort of board control. It seems better than B tier if you know how/when to use it.

Unknown

Yea claustrophobia/suppression stalls the game, it doesn't speed up matches. In PvP where the only thing is sustain and speed it does nothing for you.

So I played around with Nissa a bit more and it reaches some sort of critical mass with pilgrimage + fake llanowar elves + that one dual land where things are constantly exploding.

It is a bit random to be sure but a lot of Nissa's stuff is a lot better when working together than their individual ratings may indicate.

I probably can't make those elves A tier but they should be a consideration in almost any deck.

I dunno if I -like- it per se, I am still partial to Gideon's "always have an answer" type of gameplay and complete board control, but Nissa as a human player is very fast and very good. AI is...not that good.

TKC

What's happened to Murder Investigation?

I think you might be having some display issues.

Unknown

Murder investigation should be A, but tbh I might move it to B.

My brief love affair with it was cut short by how many times I realized I ditched it out of my hand. I play it perhaps one out of every 30 games. When it is useful it is useful...but really it is simply my black counter but no one ever plays liliana so it is pointless.

Also I take back everything I ever said about nissa. She is so fun to play and animists awakening makes my knees weak. My problem is I have too much mana? I feel less like I'm playing puzzle quest and more like I'm simply throwing cards at my opponent. And when those cards are colossus and dywen they're going to have a bad time.

Plus she is so easy at all the challenges. Step 1, animist awakening into great auror. Step 2, vomit all your cards into play and just ignore the opponent.

Meto5000

pandabear wrote:

I feel less like I'm playing puzzle quest and more like I'm simply throwing cards at my opponent. And when those cards are colossus and dywnen they're going to have a bad time..

You forgot Zendikar Incarnate. Slightly inefficient at 20 mana, but with a Nissa ramp deck that's no problem and he gets big quick. I feel like Nissa is probably the fastest Planeswalker at level 50 since she can vomit out a nonstop barrage of huge creatures quicker than any other PW.

Unknown

I'm only complaint is dywen proc doesn't stack. Still heals pretty well when used with alhammarets archive because nissa can't dump her mana fast enough without it.

TKC

pandabear wrote:

Murder investigation should be A, but tbh I might move it to B.

No, I mean I can't see it at all on the list - have some cards dropped off?

Unknown

Panda,

Have you used the Green deck enough to put a value on cards yet or am I looking at the wrong listing?

Lieguld

Unknown

Lieguld wrote:

Panda,

Have you used the Green deck enough to put a value on cards yet or am I looking at the wrong listing?

Lieguld

Why? Aren't you seeing it or don't you agree with the list?

Unknown

I'm still more of a Nissa hobbyist but with Nissa its basically that all her good cards are rare.

If you have them, you're good to go. Otherwise you will have to play more conservatively and hope for good mana.

Unknown

Nerimos wrote:

Lieguld wrote:

Panda,

Have you used the Green deck enough to put a value on cards yet or am I looking at the wrong listing?

Lieguld

Why? Aren't you seeing it or don't you agree with the list?

No, I didn't see a list. Panda has no green cards listed, just a message that says he's not a lot of experience with that color.

Unless I am looking in the wrong area. It's all good though

Lieguld

Unknown

Just go to the very first post of this thread. Click on "show" near the icon. There you go.

Unknown

I had to change to a new browser in order to see the list. All the other list for showing up but the green list for some reason was only giving me his comments but not the listing. Weird. But I finally got it. Thank you so much guys!

Lieguld

Unknown

Invocation seems to be completely underrated as green c tier.
I would call it a or s tier.

The description sais it's c tier because she already has an ability what does the same and she has no spell slots.

I think neither of this matters.
Her 2nd ability indeed gives all creatures +x/+x. But why is that a reason for not putting the spell into the deck. You could also says for the same reason to not put pilgrimage or awakening into decks because she already has the power to convert tiles into green.

As for the slots. At level 50 she has 3 spell slots. She only has a few good spells. I can't see a problem there.

So much to the reasons you classified it c tier for.

Now my reasons why I would at least call it a tier.
Most of the time you get 12 or 18 extra damage to the PW. If you cast it on a reach creature this will most likely kill every attacker. Additionally it gets 6 extra health to tank. This means it can eat up to 6 damage that actually doesn't really count.

So you get tons of damage to the pw (and maybe it's creatures) while preventing your creatures from getting hurt a lot.

Unknown

On paper it is very strong, and in MtG it is very thematically green as well.

I originally put it in A but was advised by people that played Nissa that it wasn't very good.

So I have no experience with the card but I might try it and change its rating later.

The main issue I am having with it is that you already have Mantle of Webs and Animist Awakening for your spells, and they are pretty much mandatory at this point as they fill very specific niches that no other card brings.

Adding a third spell is possible, but I typically have that as Great Aurora (for storyline...not really that useful most of the time vs humans), and also you have a ton of creatures that can take up that slot as well as decent supports for that slot too.

There could be a case for it being useful but I almost always have another creature to cast as well, and my pw mana is filling up a lot from Animist Awakening, which allows me to keep using the PW skill as well.

You can't really say Nissas pilgrimage is analogous because it provides free mana generation which nissa's 1 does not. That is kinda a straw man argument.

I can't remember if I have this card or not, if I do I might try it sometime, but I'm busy at work this week and haven't played in a while.

Meto5000

I was one of the people who was kind of sour on Joraga's previously, but I've come around to it. You could spend 12-15 mana to cast another Spider or Colossus but it would take 3 turns to do the same amount of damage that Joraga's can pump out. With so much opponent HP to chew through an extra 12-18 damage can save you 2-3 turns per match, and since speed counts, I think this card is solidly A tier.