Panda's Card Tier List - Updated for 1.3 Patch

Unknown

EDHdad wrote:

In this vein, I strongly disagree with Fiery Conclusion being an A tier card. Chandra can do 3 damage on her own. Chanda's spells can do 2-6 damage for 4-6 mana. What creature are you going to sacrifice to make this spell worth your while? And why are you putting that creature in your deck in the first place? This is the problem with Fiery Conclusion. It incentivizes you to play bad cards, and only works in corner cases.

Actually, I had it in my deck for a while, and it's main use is when you're in a tight spot, since it only costs 1. That said, I replaced it with other removal spells. Chandra has really nice control, so she's unlikely to be in a tight spot if you're careful.

EDHdad

Blue:

Jace's second ability - better, because you can pitch your hand down to 5 at any time so that this actually resolves.

Anchor to the Aether - worse now because bounce, but bounce is still a thing, and this is probably the best pure bounce spell. The main difference now is that you should probably wait until a creature has been reinforced, or is actually a threat, before bouncing it.

Artificer's Epiphany - better because you can make sure you actually have room for 2 cards in your hand before casting it. Also, as usual, it casts for free if you draw one after playing Day's Undoing.

Claustophobia - worse because Nerfed. Turn to Frog is probably better.

Day's Undoing - better, because you can pitch any unwanted cards you drew. Also, the spell now gives you a prompt before you cast it. Which is huge. One of the drawbacks of the spell previously is that it would simply resolve once you had enough mana to cast it.

Disperse - worse, but it should never have been a kill spell for 4. It's still a great tempo play. Costs 1 after Day's Undoing. Or play it before Day's Undoing and you'll never see that creature again.

Harbinger of Tides - Nerfed, but still top tier. I do appreciate the fact that I can now discard my 27-mana Iroas' Champion and start fresh on a new one.

Jhessian Thief - much, much better because you can cycle through the cards she draws.

Ringwarden Owl - better, because you can cycle your non-spell cards and cast more spells when it's in play.

Separtist Voidmage - Nerfed. I wouldn't play him any more, frankly. I don't want to waste a creature slot on a 2/2 for 10.

Sigiled Starfish - the best, the best, the best. With the ability to discard, it's like having your own personal Howling Mine that smacks your opponent for 3 every turn. The 5 toughness isn't irrelevant, either. Especially since you can keep drawing into them, and reinforce them quite readily.

Skaab Goliath - unplayable because you don't want to run anything you'd sacrifice.

Soulblade Djinn - see Ringwarden Owl.

Sphinx's Tutelage - better because you can pitch dead cards, so you never miss a draw.

Talent of the Telepath - better because you can pitch dead cards. Also, better because Day's Undoing (its #1 target) now prompts you before it resolves. Previously, if you Talent of the Telepathed into Day's Undoing, you would simply launch a Day's Undoing, often to suboptimal results. Additionally, this card actually combos with itself.

Thopter Spy Network - the new "why does this card even exist"? But seriously, 4 freaking thopter tokens? Every damn turn?

Tower Geist - not as essential as it once was, because you can draw and pitch cards pretty much at will now.

Turn to Frog - much better, if only because bounce has gotten much worse. This is probably the best single-target removal in the game, other than Unholy Hunger. Unless your opponent has a Brawler's Plate, Sigil of Valor, Throwing Knife, and Sword of the Animist in play, in which case the 10/8 Berserker Frog you just created is going to make you ask "why did I take all that bounce out of my deck".

Unknown

The problem with Iroas' Champion, for me, is the cost. Not that it's too expensive but that it takes some time to cast. But maybe that's because I play a mana-denial deck and find it too easy to lock down IC; it is only by an extremely rare cascade that I've learned that the card I was bogging down in mana drain was IC.

Unknown

I don't think TSN is S-tier anymore.

- Requires early investment; it's expensive, which is not to say it is overpriced, it is not.
- Requires another support to function increasing it's overall cost.
- Thopters cannot attack any earlier than 3rd turn, assuming cost is overcome.
- It doesn't benefit from Angel's Tomb; whether you agree that this interaction should work or not, this was the true power of TSN.

Unknown

kore wrote:

The problem with Iroas' Champion, for me, is the cost. Not that it's too expensive but that it takes some time to cast. But maybe that's because I play a mana-denial deck and find it too easy to lock down IC; it is only by an extremely rare cascade that I've learned that the card I was bogging down in mana drain was IC.

Sure, but the instant it comes out, you win.
They have one turn before you slap vigilance or better on it. I actually just had a funny experience with Despoiler of Souls- it was a 10/4 and giving me trouble, but once Champion came out, the game turned in my favor. Not only did I kill the Despoiler, but every time it came back, it died again. and again. Pathetically.

In the OP, Panda has Ravaging Blaze listed as "strictly better than Lightning Javelin but worse than Exquisite Firecraft", which is wrong.
Ravaging Blaze can't target players, so it's not strictly worse.
More importantly, it is certainly not worse than Exquisite Firecraft, as it can damage both the player and the creature. Since it also does 4 damage (and so can take out red's "blind spot", 4-toughness creatures), I think it's an excellent card, maybe not S tier but better than A.

EDHdad

Green:

Animist's Awakening - this card is insane. I hadn't seen it before but I picked one up with the fat pack from the last update. It's 10 mana and will possibly produce 10 green gems and then possibly produce another 10 green gems next turn. Like, you can literally cast your entire hand of 12-15 mana spells and be completely out of cards. Then the resulting cascades will have powered Nissa up to the point where you can draw and turn more gems to green and cascade again. Hint: don't cast it unless you have at least 8 green on board.

Caustic Caterpillar - the same as it was before, but I do want it on the record that the paper version of this card destroys artifacts and enchantments, darn it.

Conclave Naturalists - better, because you can pitch it, like any other removal spell if not needed.

Elemental Bond - better with the ability to pitch cards, like your 2nd copy of Elemental Bond for example.

Herald of the Pantheon - better with the ability to pitch cards.

Managorger Hydra - possibly better because you can pitch cards, but most green decks can only put 1 or 2 spells in the whole deck. I'd love to see this updated to "any player playing any card" to be in line with the paper version.

Mantle of Webs - better because you can pitch cards.

Nissa's Pilgrimage - better. This card now gives 2 green gems per turn, and has higher toughness. This is now worth auto-including in nearly any deck, whereas before it was kind of meh.

Reclaim - outclassed by Animist's Awakening and the new improved Nissa's Revelation.

The Great Aurora - much, much, much better. It used to cost 30 mana and was unplayable. Now it's 15 mana and you can pitch it if you don't need it. Plus, you can sandbag your own spells, fully charge them with mana, and then cast them after clearing the board. If your opponent's board state gets out of control, you can reset the board. If not, you can just win the game without it. One thing to note: when it destroys enchantments, it doesn't destroy the gems they were attached to, so it doesn't create additional cascades, unfortunately.

Zendikar's Inarnate - better because Animist's Awakening will actually produce enough mana to hard cast this. And if it's on the field already, Animist's Awakening will make this stupidly huge.

EDHdad

Red:

Chandra's Fury - functionally different. You cannot cast it unless your opponent has creatures on the field. Before, you could cast it to an empty board.

Fiery Conclusion - better because you can pitch it if you don't need it. Previously, if you had 6 of these in your hand and no creatures on board, you literally could not draw or cast any cards for the rest of the game.

Fiery Impulse - better because you can pitch it. Also better than the original post in this thread gives it credit for being.

Ghirapur Aether Grid - better because you can pitch it. This is a great card, but you only need one in play at a time, at maximum.

Magmatic Insight - worse because you can now cycle through your deck just by drawing and pitching cards. Previously, this was one of the only discard outlets in the game, and one of the only ways to prevent your hand from being clogged up with uncastable spells.

EDHdad

White -

Gideon's Second Ability - better, if only because the other two abilities are worse. I used to use the first ability to make soldier tokens into chump blockers, and the third ability to give some random creature +4/+4 and lifelink. Now, I only want to give vigilance to a first strike creature, and I'd rather pump my lifelink creatures by +2/+2 and have them not be turned into martyrs.

Archangel of Tithes - better because you can pitch it if you don't have time to wait for 18 mana.

Enlightened Ascetic - better because you can pitch it if you don't need it. Also better because Gideon can't give other creatures lifelink anymore, so you have to nurture your own.

Enshrouding Mist - better, because you can pitch it and it's really only good under certain circumstances.

Grasp of the Hieromancer - I haven't played it since the update but I thought they were going to change this somehow.

Hixus, Prison Warden - changed in the last update. It has a lower casting cost and less toughness.

Iroas' Champion - better because you can build it up over several turns when you're not being pressured, and you can pitch additional ones if you're digging for a quick removal spell.

Knight of the White Orchid - worse because it was Nerfed.

Murder Investigation - worse, because you used to be able to give the tokens +1/+1 and vigilance for 3 loyalty, which meant you could stave off a huge non-flying creature and possibly even kill it over time. Now, it costs 5 loyalty, which makes that tactic a lot less effective.

Relic Seeker - slightly Nerfed, but still terrifying when your opponent casts it.

Suppression Bonds - now strictly better than Claustrophobia.

Tragic Arrogance - I think they lowered the casting cost of this, but I don't know for sure.

War Oracle - better, because Gideon can't give other creatures lifelink anymore.

EDHdad

Colorless:

Alhammaret's Archive - better because you can pitch cards.

Battlefield Forge / Caves of Koilos / Llanowar Wastes / Shivan Reef / Yavimaya Coast - I keep calling these "painlands" even though they aren't actually lands and don't cause you pain. Anyway, they are now better, because their casting cost was reduced and I think they have higher toughness.

Helm of the Gods - possibly better because the painlands now cost less mana. Plus, you can pitch it if you aren't anywhere near being able to cast it. I once killed a computer player whose hand was completely filled with Helm of the Gods.

Sword of the Animist - I think it got Nerfed slightly, by making it destroy fewer gems. But I don't have one so I don't know for sure. Darn it.

Hibernum_JC

BTW guys, I see you found about Animist's Awakening. It's something else we forgot to put in the patch notes. We didn't have it in before because it was glitchy, but we managed to fix it so we put it back in. It gives green much, much needed board ramp, which is what I feel Nissa needed to be able to fully shine.

I love seeing that people are adjusting to the new Bounce mechanics. I know it stings for some of you that it's not as strong as it used to be, but as some of you guys pointed out it's still viable, just not as overpowered as it was before.

Also we should keep in mind that there's a good chance the other Planeswalker abilities will change - we needed to heavily focus on Gideon for the release of the new Quick Battle but there's a high probability that more changes will be coming.

Keep the reviews coming! This sort of feedback is super interesting to read, and I love to see how you guys rank the cards.

Finally, EDHdad, Sword of the Animist's nerf was to it's shield only. It still targets a gem and destroys a 3x3 block around it.

Unknown

EDHdad wrote:

Tragic Arrogance - I think they lowered the casting cost of this, but I don't know for sure.

Oh! I can help, I have 2!


It's 18 mana, down from 24.

Unknown

Relic Seeker must've needed the nerf. It is by far white's best creature that I own, and I'd even say it's the best creature out of any colors that I own. It would be good in any colors, but white is the color where it can really shine.

I'd also say that Magmatic Insight is now horrible, to the point of unplayable. It lets you cycle one other card slightly faster than you could for free, for the cost of a standard red removal spell. No thanks.

The Great Aurora interests me. Has anybody playtested it? It looks like it has some great potential as green's turnaround card, but it also looks like it could be a dud.

Finally, Hibernum_JC, thanks a lot for commenting on this stuff.

Hibernum_JC

Keral_Keep wrote:

Relic Seeker must've needed the nerf. It is by far white's best creature that I own, and I'd even say it's the best creature out of any colors that I own. It would be good in any colors, but white is the color where it can really shine.

I'd also say that Magmatic Insight is now horrible, to the point of unplayable. It lets you cycle one other card slightly faster than you could for free, for the cost of a standard red removal spell. No thanks.

The Great Aurora interests me. Has anybody playtested it? It looks like it has some great potential as green's turnaround card, but it also looks like it could be a dud.

Finally, Hibernum_JC, thanks a lot for commenting on this stuff.

You're welcome.

The point of Magmatic Insight is to get card draw in red, which is very rare. If you combine it with an Avaricious Dragon, for example, you'll get cost reduction on those 2 cards right now, so there's a bit of combo potential, but red's main drawback is that it's card draw is rare and expensive.

BlackSheep101

Agreed, I use it when I have 3 or 4 cards in my hand to get more options, not when my hand is full to cycle through cards.

Unknown

The point of Magmatic Insight is to cycle cards, at least in paper magic.
It doesn't gain you cards (Magmatic Insight + discard is -2 cards, then you draw 2), it just replaces two of your cards, one of which (itself) was useless. Also, in your combo with Avaricious Dragon, you're paying 5 and having the costs of both cards reduced by a total of six. So you can combo it with Avaricious dragon, for a net gain of one mana. This comes at the cost of maybe getting useless cards, and if you don't have that one mythic out, you're losing 5 mana to do so.
In paper Magic, red decks (in fact, most decks) empty their hands faster than they draw, and so if you have a dead card you can cycle it out.
In MTGPQ, red decks (in this case, all decks which aren't all small creatures with good luck) play cards slower than they draw, and so being out of cards is never a problem.
Sorry if this comes off as "I know more than you do about your own game", but I truly believe that Magmatic Insight is a cards whose identical function (to paper MTG) is worse due to the mechanics.

BlackSheep101

I save up burn spells to deal with creatures while I'm playing out creatures and supports. Any time I have to burn a critter and drop a creature at the same time, I'm looking to get more cards.

Unknown

It also takes up space that could be otherwise used by a more useful card.

Unknown

I think maybe you or I have some cards confuse.

The A tier card is supposed to be the one that does 4 damage. The one that sacs a creature should be C.

I haven't had a time to update the list as I can only access this site on mobile...which is a pain to use to edit. I might make changes this weekend.

The reason that Iroas sucks for white is pretty much everything which has is more efficient, berserker is pointless for white.

The reason it is high in red isn't because red has removal but because it is the most efficient removal for red, being better than exquisite fire craft at more than 4-5 turns. Save red burn for the things that Iroas cannot chew up.

Prickleboar is very good too, surprisingly good if you just want to trade blows. Prickleboar is also reds anti white card.

Harbinger is still S or A tier because it is still an instant denial. I dunno what world players live in now where you cannot bounce a creature that just came out. Now it simply requires planning to use effectively, and timing, instead of being automatic I win.

If they play a big beefy creature, simply slap down harbinger right after.

Even disperse and aether are still useful, but situational now and maybe A to B tier, instead of auto includes. Jace is still by far the best Pw.

Unknown

BlackSheep101 wrote:

The reason it is high in red isn't because red has removal but because it is the most efficient removal for red, being better than exquisite fire craft at more than 4-5 turns. Save red burn for the things that Iroas cannot chew up.

The point is it doesn't get more cards. 2 - 2 = 0. It changes out your cards.

pandabear wrote:

The reason that Iroas sucks for white is pretty much everything which has is more efficient, berserker is pointless for white.

The reason it is high in red isn't because red has removal but because it is the most efficient removal for red, being better than exquisite fire craft at more than 4-5 turns. Save red burn for the things that Iroas cannot chew up.

I truly don't understand how you think that.
Berserker is pointless for white? Berserker and Suppression Bonds are white's only removal! And once white gets it down, it can give it vigilance to lock down most creatures. Red cannot. In addition, it's the only creature in the game with double strike, which doubles the value of Gideons buffing.
But how on earth is it the most efficient removal for red? Red has scores of other removal, from the 6-for-6 Exquisite Firecraft to the punch-you-in-the-face-and-kill-your-stuff Ravaging Blaze. This is an 19-cost 4/4 which can kill anything that you could've killed already for cheaper with Exquisite Firecraft or Ravaging Blaze.
The argument that it's red's most efficient removal is not only dubious, but falls apart when you see that it's literally half of white's removal. And the other half is a rare support that falls apart quickly and can't get more than one creature.

Finally, some anecdotal evidence.
This guy (gal?) has won me games. On her own. Just that card and Sharp Eyes. It's insane - Vigilance locks your opponent down, and then the +1/+1 becomes +2/+1 when combined with the double strike. I would gladly play a game with just this card.
If this or Relic Seeker is in my opening hand, I slide it to the top. I'm genuinely curious why it isn't rare or even mythic. Vanilla, sure, but also one of the best creatures in the game.

Unknown

Um, or you could play consul, and not waste time with berserker.

Whites removal is his 1 ability.

Berserker is a waste of time