Panda's Card Tier List - Updated for 1.3 Patch

Unknown

Well what I was trying to get at is there are objective reasons for picking a card, but you're right in that there is at least some value of preference inthere.

Someone mentioned that they had other cards where they disagree with ranking, I'd love to hear them, esp about nissa cause I don't play her at all.

EDHdad

Personally, I think you should just rate her the same either way. You don't rate Brawler's Plate red or white decks, so there isn't really a reason to give her two different ratings either. If she's an A, she's an A. If she's a B, she's a B. Pick one and stick to it. Then people can just disagree about the one rating instead of two.

Unknown

I'm ready to stop talking about this. We agree she's good. That's all we need.

EDHdad

I'd love to hear them, esp about nissa cause I don't play her at all.

Nissa got the most benefit from the recent update. Her first ability will ramp and draw a card, but previously your hand might have been clogged and you'd miss the card draw. Now, you can discard before activating the ability.

Her main ramp spell, Nissa's Pilgrimage, was given a buff. It now converts 2 gems to green and has extra toughness. So, it will often cascade you into at least +5 mana and +1 loyalty at the start of every turn.

Situational removal, such as Aerial Volley, have gotten better, because you can pitch it if there are no targets.

A new spell, Animist's Awakening was introduced as a rare. It's 10 mana and can potentially convert up to 20 gems to green on 2 different turns. This sometimes will set up a series of cascades which will power every single card in your hand.

The Great Aurora, a Mythic, is now, by far, the best removal in the game. Its casting cost was reduced from 30 to 15. It destroys everything on the board. But because of the way this game is set up, you can have a bunch of fully-charged creatures ready to cast after the board wipe.

Nissa is weak to flyers, so her key creatures are mid-range creatures with reach. This includes Dwynen's Elite, Skysnare Spider, and Dwyen, Gilt-Leaf Daen. Mantle of Webs can be similarly useful, but the deck doesn't have much room for spells. (You can only put 1 spell in a lower-level Nissa deck). Conclave Naturalists can provide support destruction. Honored Hierarch, if renowned, can often result in turns where you produce 10-20 mana.

For your specific list, I would disagree with:

Zendikar Incarnate - was S, should be A or B max. The problem is you don't want just a big dumb beefy creature. You want a big dumb beefy creature who can smash into your opponent's big dumb beefy creatures. I do agree that he is big, dumb and beefy.

Managorger Hydra - was A should be B. The problem is that you can't cast spells in your deck. You're given one spell at the lower level. If Managorger Hydra worked the way it works in paper magic, it would be top tier.

Reclaim - was A should be B. Again, you can only have 1 spell, so you should make it count. It's true that it can make use of a caterpillar, but the problem is, what is the caterpillar doing in the deck? This can be useful, but only in certain builds and in certain situations. Which I think should make it B-ish.

Titanic Growth - same thing. You only have 1 spell, so it should impact the board. Mantle of Webs will give your creature almost the same toughness buff, but permanently, and it will allow you to kill flyers on the counterattack.

Woodland Bellower - was A, should be B. You only have 3 creature slots on the board, so what are the odds that the Bellower picks up a creature that you will actually need and have room for?

Zendikar's Roil - was A, should be closer to C. There are several problems. First, you have to keep an open slot on your board in case you get a random 2-2 vanilla. Second, when you match 4 gems, it's possible that you will destroy this enchantment in the process. Third, you're in green. If you want 2 power on board, you can get it.

Dwynen's Elite - was B, should probably be A. I can't stress how important it is for green to take out fliers and enemy enchantments. She's got reach and 4 power. That's what you need. Her ability to produce an elf is relevant approximately one time in 500 games. Even if you happen to have a 2nd elf, you need a 3rd slot open. And now you can't cast some other creature which would be preferable to a 1/1 elf.

Gather the Pack - was B, should be lower. Remember. You don't have any spell slots available in your deck. Remember. Nissa's 1st ability will draw you a card. You don't need this, ever.

Joraga Invocation - was B, should be lower. Again, there are no spell slots in Nissa's deck. And Nissa can pump your army with her 2nd ability. Instead of temporarily pumping your spider by 6 for 14 mana, you could permanently reinforce the same spider for 12 mana.

Nissa's Pilgrimage - was B, should be A or S. Not because you were wrong, but because it's been buffed.

The Great Aurora - was C, should be A or S. Used to cost 30 mana, and C or worse was correct. Now it's 15 and it's the best removal in the game. This is the sort of card where, if you have it, you should play that color even though you weren't playing it before. Like Day's Undoing is for blue or Relic Seeker is for white, or Exquisite Firecraft is for red.

Unknown

Huh how come I never realized nissa had no spell slots, weird.

I think I agree with pretty much everything.

Especially nissas pilgrimage, I read that in patch notes and couldn't really believe. They didn't even change the mana cost. It felt out of place esp as they then went ahead and nerfed a bunch of supports.

I think some of her beefy creatures were up there because they were efficient. With mantle being an almost always included spell, you can force fights too even if by default they don't fight.

You can also use brawlers plate if needed

Unknown

The only reason I play Managorger at all is it's my most efficient green creature for 8. Sad.

Unknown

Animist's Awakening is S-tier. That is all.

Unknown

kore wrote:

Animist's Awakening is S-tier. That is all.

I was actually playing the Nissa challenges today and say it played. It does seem very good.

But again...nissa has very limited spell slots. This is likely one of the best spells but nissa already has good mana advantage, perhaps something that shores up her weaknesses is better. Food for thought.

Unknown

pandabear wrote:

kore wrote:

Animist's Awakening is S-tier. That is all.

I was actually playing the Nissa challenges today and say it played. It does seem very good.

But again...nissa has very limited spell slots. This is likely one of the best spells but nissa already has good mana advantage, perhaps something that shores up her weaknesses is better. Food for thought.

It seems like a good pairing for Zendikar's Roil. I'm going to test it out.

Morphis

I'd like to know if it triggers zendikar skill but I think it does not.

Unknown

Zendikar's Roil produces 2 2/2, so it actually produces a 4/4 with each activation. Though I agree it's vulnerable and can be destroyed by trying to activate it, so not high tier.

Unknown

I've been using ZR very affective with AA, it's an efficient 4/4 @ 9 . The only thing that makes me consider tossing it out is the fact that I have 5 creatures in my deck already. Of course, they make good Reclaim fodder.

aesith

Act of Treason. Im sure a lot knew but you can exceed 3 creatures using this spell when attacking.
Just throwing it out there.

Morphis

It would be nice to have a similar topic open just for rares and mythics based on personal experience(by that I mean actually tested) for reference to choos if it is worth climbing the ladder to get the mythic or it is better getting the rare.
Like now with green I presume I am better off with rare but since I am basing the assumption on cards I do not own I am not that sure.

Unknown

You're welcome to start your own!

I've finally gone and updated the list for 1.3

Please let me know if there are any errors. Blue White and Green got revamped. Thanks to EDHDad's suggestions about green.

I've also tweaked black red and colorless a bit, not really due to that many changes to them, but because with a few hundred more games played I found some better uses for certain cards.

Unknown

Morphis wrote:

It would be nice to have a similar topic open just for rares and mythics based on personal experience(by that I mean actually tested) for reference to choos if it is worth climbing the ladder to get the mythic or it is better getting the rare.
Like now with green I presume I am better off with rare but since I am basing the assumption on cards I do not own I am not that sure.

Rares are typically better in my experience. They're solid effects, and mythics are usually expensive but flashy. Some are still good.

zawarudo

I disagree with you assessment on Citadel Castellan (16)(U) being rank B while Sentinel of the Eternal Watch (17)(R) is rank C.

They're essentially the same card, except for Sentinel having the extra effect, and has better stats without having to be renowned like Castellan - all for just one extra mana. If anything, they should be in the same tier in my opinion.

Unknown

Hmm yea they should both be C probably.

There are far more efficient cards

Unknown

A lot of white cards, like Sentinel, seem to put too much value into disabling potential blockers. Grasp of the Hieromancer is another one.

I wonder if they'll nerf the better commons and uncommons, like Pilgrimage and Iroas. They seem to be trying for a "buy packs for rares" model, which is counter to real MTG.

EDHdad

I agree with most of the your assessments.

Some possible tweaks:

* Anchor to the Aether was B, should be A. I never used it to bounce my own creature, so I didn't notice the Nerf. It's a tempo play, because it also draws you a card. The mana isn't really an issue because at the top level, Jace gets 6 mana with one blue match. Plus, Jace's 2nd ability can always put this back into your hand, and if he does, it will only cost 1 or so (depending on your Jace level). Plus, Talent of the Telepath can fetch this and it will cost 1. Plus, Day's Undoing will make it cost 4. If I had to choose between this and Disperse, I'd almost always take this. At the very least, they should be at the same tier.

* Jhessian Thief - should be re-evaluated now that you can pitch cards. I'm not sure this is A tier, but the phrase "card draw is not needed" should be changed. You're not drawing cards anymore. You're filtering them.

* Sigiled Starfish - now this one absolutely is an A in my opinion, because of the new ability to pitch cards. Make sure you have 4 or fewer cards in hand at the end of your turn and you will see incredible benefit from the Starfish. The difference between this and the Jhessian Thief is that the Thief draws when it hits the opponent. So you won't be able to draw and cast the card the same turn. With the Starfish, you draw 2 cards at the beginning of your turn and can set up your turn from there.

* Separtist Voidmage - is C should probably be B. Bounce is still good. It still kills token creatures (such as Frogs), still Nerfs reinforced creatures, and the mana given to the opponent isn't relevant when combined with Day's Undoing. Even without Day's Undoing, it's still a tempo play. If Harbinger of Tides is S, this shouldn't be 3 tiers lower. If Disperse is A, this shouldn't be 2 tiers lower.

* Screeching Scab - actually works pretty well with Day's Undoing. Also usually works fine if you place it 2nd on the list of cards to cast. If you get enough mana to cast card #1 and one or two extra mana, this gets cast as a bonus. Maybe it should still be a C, but I wouldn't say that I can't recommend it to anyone.