Panda's Card Tier List - Updated for 1.3 Patch

TKC

pandabear wrote:

Hmm, you can play blue with just a few cards, he has a fairly good uncommon deck too.

Ringwarden Owl
Scrapskin Drake
Jessian Thief or Whirler Rogue
Artificer's Epiphany or Tower Geist or Foundry of the Consuls
Sphinx's Tutelage
Claustrophobia
(Jace's Sanctum) or Angel's Tomb
Anchor to the Aether
Disperse or Artificer's Epiphany
Stratus Walk

Is a deck with no rares.

Hmmm. Well, thus far I've opened five fat packs, four reward boosters and 30 rune boosters, and I'm missing six of those cards, including Ringwarden Owl, which seems to be the key. I'll just keep plugging along and hope that I get some good pulls with the free fat pack from the December debacle.

Unknown

Here's a deck that required a huge amount of mental processing power and poring over cards to create.

After an agonizing whole minute over the proper cards and combos to use, I present to you:

Timmy's Blue Deck

http://mtgpq.com/deck/details/timmys-blue-deck

Irgy wrote:

I'm a Jace player, just some comments. Some of the thing that you don't like become useful when you consider that your hand almost always fills up, preventing you from using your second ability or drawing more useful cards. For instance, I play Negate over Stratus Walk, because both cards do nothing but Negate has the *advantage* of freeing up a card slot in your hand. Not to mention paying for itself by rubbing your opponent's face in the dirt. Similarly I use the ultimate a lot, because I have no targets for the first ability, no card slot for the second, and the ultimate helps keep the opponent away from doing anything. And finally Screeching Skaab frees a card slot for 4 mana, plus every now and then you live the dream and time it so you only pay 1. This might be a function of me not having a lot of cards (I've yet to buy my first 600-yellow-crystal box even) but I use all of these tier Cs to good effect.

You bring up some good points. I don't like Negate because it doesn't cantrip, but if your goal is to free up card slots then Negate is an easy way to do so. However remember you can only cast spells after a match, so you're going to fill up again anyway. I think I'll move it at least to tier B.

I don't have the ultimate because I don't believe in leveling Planeswalkers heh.

The problem with Skaab is that again if your goal is to empty your hand you're doing it wrong - if you really want to, you should simply save up 2 cards and cast them at the same time. It just isn't that good, and doesn't follow on Jace's strengths, is why he isn't in there. Truth be told in any other deck he'd be decent, a maximum of 4 mana for a 2/1 isn't bad. But Jace isn't about rush he is about control, so Skaab just doesn't do anything for him.

I typically don't have an issue with my hand filling up (rather, I don't care if it does fill up) because by that point I have already pretty much won on board dominance, and I don't need to keep casting or use his second ability. If that is part of your overall strategy I can see Negate being far more useful.

Unknown

Thanks for putting this together. I haven't compared all my own observations with yours yet but I see a lot of the cards that are mainstays in my decks present.

I'm curious, where do you rank Day's Undoing?

Meto5000

pandabear wrote:

Here's a deck that required a huge amount of mental processing power and poring over cards to create.

After an agonizing whole minute over the proper cards and combos to use, I present to you:

Timmy's Blue Deck

http://mtgpq.com/deck/details/timmys-blue-deck

I love this deck except I think I might replace Djinn with a bounce. Probably disperse, but maybe Return to Aether. You already have Disciple, Meddler and Harbinger which are all beaters that have relevant abilities to boot. Djinn is kinda just a vanilla beater compared to the rest. I bet you're rarely/never happy having a Djinn in your hand over any of the other spells in your deck.

Edit: Nevermind, didn't even see Willbreaker or read the deck summary. Replacing Djinn and Willbreaker with 2 bounce basically guarantees this deck never loses and would win a fair amount even on defense. Blue is so broken. Nerf Islands pls.

Double Edit: Here's my ridiculously unbeatable blue deck: http://mtgpq.com/deck/details/blue-control-beatdown

I actually think the only way to beat a Jace deck like this would be with hexproof beaters but I don't know of any really good ones. The few there are are too overcosted to matter much.

Unknown

durtaur wrote:

Thanks for putting this together. I haven't compared all my own observations with yours yet but I see a lot of the cards that are mainstays in my decks present.

I'm curious, where do you rank Day's Undoing?

I think I would truthfully rank it as A, but I don't use it.

Mostly because I simply play Jace as a bruiser with bounce effects, rather than the "control is love control is life" style of Jace.

Simply because I want faster wins instead of safer wins.

That said I think the card is very useful, but I don't run it, so my personal bias is getting in the way.

Meto5000

pandabear wrote:

Simply because I want faster wins instead of safer wins.

But this card does both! Turn 1, match blue, instantly cast Day's Undoing - turn 2 w/5 cards in hand each with their mana cost reduced by 3. A net gain of 2 cards and 9 mana.

Stuck with a **** hand with your opponent about to drop a 25 mana Mythic? Days Undoing to the rescue!

I'm guessing if you're casting any of these three A Tier cards: Ringwarden Owl, Soulblade Djinn or Scrapskin Drake, you're almost always wishing you could refill your hand with bounces, Harbingers and Disciples instead. Are you using any of those three cards in your deck?

Edit: Also, can someone verify the Sphinx's Tutelage mechanic? I feel like it only ever increases your opponents cards by a MAX of 2 mana. Definitely not A tier if that is the case.

Unknown

I'm not sure about sphinx, but I swear I do see the mana tick down (esp noticeable on low mana cards) more and more as you cast it. Maybe placebo.

I use drake for the same reason I run my deck, because it makes me take less damage so I can run more at once. Though tbh I've almost been exclusively playing Gideon because you can win without taking any damage at all (or heal any damage that is taken), and you win in like 5-6 turns after a creature drop.

I guess the bottom line is I feel while Jace is by far the most annoying AI opponent (because simply loading him up with good cards he is a menace even if AI doesn't know what its doing) but not actually that efficient when playing. Sure you will be in control for the entire match but it just takes too long, and no ability to heal.

Unknown

The neat triangle of death: Jace beats Gideon, gideon beats Chandra, Chandra beats Jace.
I also never play stratus walk in my deck. It was only useful for me once I already had sanctum, Sphinx and claustrofobia in play, and then I realized the other cards were already winning the game by themselves.

Brainstormin

I find the dual lands get better the higher your Planeswalker is.
Jace at lvl 50 can easily play a land turn one with a good match. I do wish they they had a higher countdown. They can help cascade early on but tend to blow themselves up.

How do people like Dreadwaters?
It's pricey but one of my favorites. You can easily empty their hand (in blue?!) because they always match your blue trap tiles.

Unknown

I find no use for dreadwaters because I'd rather match my blue tiles myself.

If you want to use it I can see it being effective, but making them discard their hand isn't really the point of blue (go black for that). You just simply prevent them from getting the mana to cast anything, not make it so they can't cast anything.

Unknown

For now I'll put Day's Undoing in A.

I've also played a bit more with Stalwart Aven and while it is useful in an opening hand I'm not sure if I would cast it anytime else.

It -is- the cheapest good flyer that Gideon has, and is a good counter to blue stuff. I dunno if I would put it in A but it is at least one of the best B ranks.

I also played a bit with the dual lands, and while I still can't stomach an early investment into them they certainly aren't useless, I'll put them in B.

Unknown

Hey Panda quick questions: what are those 3 ratings near each color? At first i thought it was each planeswalker ability but you also have it for colorless. Also how did your thread become sticky?

Unknown

Dskysmine wrote:

Hey Panda quick questions: what are those 3 ratings near each color? At first i thought it was each planeswalker ability but you also have it for colorless. Also how did your thread become sticky?

Ionno someone must've stickied it.

The bold ratings near each color are my general ratings of creature/spell/support potential of each color. I tried to remove planeswalkers from the equation (in case they add more) but it was really difficult in the case of Gideon...frankly White by itself is very much maybe A/B/B, but the fact that his creatures work so well with his ability makes it SS.

Meto5000

pandabear wrote:

I've also played a bit more with Stalwart Aven and while it is useful in an opening hand I'm not sure if I would cast it anytime else.

It -is- the cheapest good flyer that Gideon has, and is a good counter to blue stuff. I dunno if I would put it in A but it is at least one of the best B ranks.

One of the annoying bits about Stalwart Aven is that reinforcing it is basically worthless. It's only really good the first time you cast *if* it can get its +2/+2 renown bonus. Spending another 0 mana to add a single point of power is pretty garbage. It's a high tier B card but I wouldn't put it at A. The 9 mana Knight support card has the same issue. It's terrific the first time you cast it and not nearly as good casting it a second time.

Unknown

I've put it at A because Gideon's only weakness is flyers and bounce, and this guy is cheap enough to take care of both, esp if he gets Voidmage or Disperse bounced, only taking 1 match to come back. Gideon's other flyers are similar in usefulness but this guy is really cheap.

You don't have to reinforce it for it to be good.

Meto5000

pandabear wrote:

I've put it at A because Gideon's only weakness is flyers and bounce, and this guy is cheap enough to take care of both, esp if he gets Voidmage or Disperse bounced, only taking 1 match to come back. Gideon's other flyers are similar in usefulness but this guy is really cheap.

You don't have to reinforce it for it to be good.

Bah. Who cares about flyers when I am swinging with a 10/10 lifelinker every turn

Gideon has no weaknesses.

Unknown

Surprisingly I don't have War Oracle.

I always think I should have it, I think its the only uncommon I don't have.

Unknown

I also don't have war oracle but I run with the 1/1 life linker instead.

Unknown

Oh I took him out actually, I just use the healing spell instead.

He is slightly too small to be useful with vigilance, and I'm not high enough for the big pumps, mana gain is slow so I stuck in the flyer and the usual rares instead. Wish I had relic seeker.

Meto5000

pandabear wrote:

Oh I took him out actually, I just use the healing spell instead.

He is slightly too small to be useful with vigilance, and I'm not high enough for the big pumps, mana gain is slow so I stuck in the flyer and the usual rares instead. Wish I had relic seeker.

Relic Seeker is such a ridiculous card. I mean, not as ridiculous as Harbinger, but close. I use the 1/1 lifelinker in my deck because with Knightly Valor, Sword of the Animus and Gideon's ability I find him just useful enough and he keeps my mana curve down. I'd probably replace him with a first striker but somehow I have exactly zero white first strikers.