January Community Video: Champions Feature

dr tinykittylove

Quebbster wrote:

Curious to see where this will go. I realized a while ago I don't have much to strive for in this game anymore - my four-star roster is coming along nicely and I don't really need much even from Legendary tokens anymore, so maybe it would not be worth continuing to play. With this feature, things might get interesting again...

I can't wait to champion my 2* army. and see how far my iso stash goes to maxing out my 3*s.

puppychow

dr tinykittylove wrote:

I can't wait to champion my 2* army. and see how far my iso stash goes to maxing out my 3*s.

I only have 400k iso, and it won't be enough to pay champion fees on my 2s and try to max out my 3s. It'll be one or the other, I'm afraid.

Lukoil

puppychow wrote:

dr tinykittylove wrote:

I can't wait to champion my 2* army. and see how far my iso stash goes to maxing out my 3*s.

I only have 400k iso, and it won't be enough to pay champion fees on my 2s and try to max out my 3s. It'll be one or the other, I'm afraid.

Champions fee for all 2* in the game (well except bagman) is only 70k (14*5k).

Unknown

I'm more curious as to how we will be able to respec the characters pass the level. Imagine if the 50 levels on 2* Storm could be 50 blue covers? That would take WindStorm to 10+k dmg

Orangecrush

ferig wrote:

I'm more curious as to how we will be able to respec the characters pass the level. Imagine if the 50 levels on 2* Storm could be 50 blue covers? That would take WindStorm to 10+k dmg

Still a 13 cover limit.

Raffoon

At max covers you should be able to apply the additional covers, increasing current level by 1 and max level by 1, and earning the reward.

Forcing max ISO level makes this useless for so many characters.

ZeiramMR

Is it safe to say that 1* covers can be sold since champions must be 2* or higher? My 14 day queue of covers starts expiring tonight.

GrumpySmurf1002

Raffoon wrote:

At max covers you should be able to apply the additional covers, increasing current level by 1 and max level by 1, and earning the reward.

Forcing max ISO level makes this useless for so many characters.

I agree that you should be able to apply covers once you're max covered, and would also agree on getting the next level by applying a cover once championed. (good way to help the iso shortage).

Don't agree on getting the rewards for doing so. The rewards are tied to level of the character, and I definitely think it should stay that way. You want the HP/CP/Legendaries? Get your characters to 95+/167+/271+. Otherwise you're still rewarding soft-cappers, and that's terrible.

mpqr7

I'm a bit sad because my ant man has 13 covers but is only lv 190, so 150+K iso from being lv 270. But I have 3 extra covers sitting around that will expire soon Whereas I'd rather start championing a bunch of my other 4*s, 3*s and 2*s instead of just building up ant man. But no worries, I'll sell off his covers for now and champion him later and some how it will all work out okay for me

jobob

DFiPL wrote:

jobob wrote:

Well then let's not have a discussion about it, I don't care if we call it inflation or not. The point is that you get zero benefit out of this system if your characters aren't maxed... And those that are "maxed" now aren't even truly at max level anymore. It's a system that's designed around making it much more important to take every character possible to max non-champion level, when before you could get away with taking them to a decent level without losing much. So I stand by my statement that this devalues an ISO stockpile.

But that's the thing. It doesn't. The ONLY impact to your ISO stockpile is the cost to "champion" any given character. There is literally ZERO ISO COST, once you've championed a max level character from your roster, to go from 94 to 144. Or from 166 to 266. Or from 270 to 370. Or from 450 to (lol) 550.

Opportunity cost, sure, because you're using covers you might otherwise grind into ISO, but your stockpile? Itself? Is going to go exactly as far post-championing as it ever has. The cost to level your character from 15 to 94 or 30 to 166 or 70 to 270 or whatever will be precisely the same. And, as pointed out repeatedly, there will be rewards for every level that character earns thereafter. How much? Good question. We'll find out. But it's probably a safe bet that you're going to earn back at least equivalent value, if not more so, over the course of those 50-100 levels added. How is that inflation, if at reaching 144 you've earned back 5000 ISO, or goods of equivalent value?

Hint: it isn't. And you can't say "well it's not inflation but my bankroll has been devalued" because that's what inflation IS. If you concede that it's not inflation...there's been no devaluation.

I am not claiming that it costs more to go from one level to the next. I am arguing that it now takes significantly more ISO to play the "full" game, i.e. get to play with all the gameplay mechanics.

Let's say that your goal was to have a good, balanced roster, spending ISO up to the inflection point where the diminishing returns kick in... which lets you fully enjoy the entire game, with all mechanics, and be competitive. That takes a certain amount of ISO, obviously. But if you want to play this new mechanic AT ALL, you HAVE to spend the ISO that gives marginal boosts to character power before you are let into the club. So the amount of ISO required to experience the full game has increased dramatically. So I don't care if you call it inflation, or a currency devaluation, or just a massive price increase... the effect is the same. Relative to the full game, your ISO doesn't go NEAR as far as it used to.

tanis3303

Please forgive me if this has already been asked & answered, but I'm at work and cant read the whole thread...

Ok, so say you have an already championed Iron Fist at say...oh, I don't know, lvl 182 why not? Can you flat out BUY another cover for him to take him to 183? Or do the covers need to be earned/opened in order to apply the next champion level?

Lukoil

tanis3303 wrote:

Please forgive me if this has already been asked & answered, but I'm at work and cant read the whole thread...

Ok, so say you have an already championed Iron Fist at say...oh, I don't know, lvl 182 why not? Can you flat out BUY another cover for him to take him to 183? Or do the covers need to be earned/opened in order to apply the next champion level?

According to this:
https://youtu.be/uL0rZ_k8etI?t=191 you need to draw them (there is no "buy level" button)

DFiPL

jobob wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

jobob wrote:

Well then let's not have a discussion about it, I don't care if we call it inflation or not. The point is that you get zero benefit out of this system if your characters aren't maxed... And those that are "maxed" now aren't even truly at max level anymore. It's a system that's designed around making it much more important to take every character possible to max non-champion level, when before you could get away with taking them to a decent level without losing much. So I stand by my statement that this devalues an ISO stockpile.

But that's the thing. It doesn't. The ONLY impact to your ISO stockpile is the cost to "champion" any given character. There is literally ZERO ISO COST, once you've championed a max level character from your roster, to go from 94 to 144. Or from 166 to 266. Or from 270 to 370. Or from 450 to (lol) 550.

Opportunity cost, sure, because you're using covers you might otherwise grind into ISO, but your stockpile? Itself? Is going to go exactly as far post-championing as it ever has. The cost to level your character from 15 to 94 or 30 to 166 or 70 to 270 or whatever will be precisely the same. And, as pointed out repeatedly, there will be rewards for every level that character earns thereafter. How much? Good question. We'll find out. But it's probably a safe bet that you're going to earn back at least equivalent value, if not more so, over the course of those 50-100 levels added. How is that inflation, if at reaching 144 you've earned back 5000 ISO, or goods of equivalent value?

Hint: it isn't. And you can't say "well it's not inflation but my bankroll has been devalued" because that's what inflation IS. If you concede that it's not inflation...there's been no devaluation.

I am not claiming that it costs more to go from one level to the next. I am arguing that it now takes significantly more ISO to play the "full" game, i.e. get to play with all the gameplay mechanics.

Let's say that your goal was to have a good, balanced roster, spending ISO up to the inflection point where the diminishing returns kick in... which lets you fully enjoy the entire game, with all mechanics, and be competitive. That takes a certain amount of ISO, obviously. But if you want to play this new mechanic AT ALL, you HAVE to spend the ISO that gives marginal boosts to character power before you are let into the club. So the amount of ISO required to experience the full game has increased dramatically. So I don't care if you call it inflation, or a currency devaluation, or just a massive price increase... the effect is the same. Relative to the full game, your ISO doesn't go NEAR as far as it used to.

Jesus Christ.

No, it hasn't "increased dramatically." You've been given a content expansion and relative to what you have spent or need to spend to max the characters you've got, champion costs are a pittance.

You are almost certainly going to make those champion costs back in champion level rewards, never mind increased placement or progression rewards from a stronger roster.

Your ISO stash has not been devalued. It doesn't take a "significantly larger amount of ISO" to play the game.

There may well be issues unforeseen with this feature but ISO devaluation/inflation is not one of them. This isn't tough stuff, champ.

JVReal

After reading everyone's comments, I have a few thoughts, hopefully I can remember them all and summarize.

I like the idea. I think that it gives us something to do with the extra covers we receive, and get immediate benefit from them.
I think this will give variety to PVP, because instead of a bunch of 166 characters, you will see 172, 185, 167, everyone will have varying levels of progress along the championing path. The minimal cost to begin the process, is minimal to the immediate benefits of FREE added levels.

Those that have purposely soft-capped their rosters for PVP, it's a strategy you knew had sacrifices, and provide specific benefits for PVE that still exist. It is a position that you placed yourself in knowing that you would need to make up ground if you ever decided to max them. With championing, you now have the decision to make of whether to change your advantage from under-leveled to outwit scaling... to over-leveling (or championing) to absorb the scaling since they have given no indication of increasing the max level of PVE enemies. I'll leave that for others to calculate.

Those who are not purposely under leveling their characters are simply not yet ready for this championing feature, and are no worse off. They should sell the cover and use the iso to level their characters, or champion the ones currently leveled.

With 3K Iso minimum every day with DDQ, you can champion one 2* or 3* character every 2 or 3 days, well before the cover expires, if they are currently level maxed.

I think its sad that people are trying so hard to tear down this idea simply because they can't make use of it yet... whether it's because they just aren't there yet, or they are purposely stunting their progress.

I just earned 3 3*Torch covers from last PVE, but my 3* torch isn't level maxed, he was just never on my priority list. Should I be pissed that I can't use those 3 covers because I won't have have the 60K iso to max level him in 13 days? Are those covers wasted? Not anymore than they were before this feature was introduced. I will wait and see where my Iso levels are at in 13 days, and if I can't, I will sell them for ISO since that character just isn't ready for it yet.

When did it become ok to look a gift horse in the mouth?

jobob

DFiPL wrote:

Jesus Christ.

No, it hasn't "increased dramatically." You've been given a content expansion and relative to what you have spent or need to spend to max the characters you've got, champion costs are a pittance.

You are almost certainly going to make those champion costs back in champion level rewards, never mind increased placement or progression rewards from a stronger roster.

Your ISO stash has not been devalued. It doesn't take a "significantly larger amount of ISO" to play the game.

There may well be issues unforeseen with this feature but ISO devaluation/inflation is not one of them. This isn't tough stuff, champ.

Umm... yes, it has increased DRAMATICALLY. You are counting just the championing fee, but completely disregarding the cost of ISO required to go to max level.

I highly doubt you are going to make back the hundreds of thousands in ISO it takes to bring a couple very usable characters up to max level so that you can champion them. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't see it happening.

jobob

JVReal wrote:

When did it become ok to look a gift horse in the mouth?

When did something you spend money on become a "gift?"

Just because players don't like a feature or point out the flaws, doesn't mean they are "tearing it down." Some of us just really like the game and want to make it as good as possible, and if that means sometimes complaining about a poorly conceived mechanic, then so be it.

TxMoose

jobob wrote:

You are counting just the championing fee, but completely disregarding the cost of ISO required to go to max level.

I highly doubt you are going to make back the hundreds of thousands in ISO it takes to bring a couple very usable characters up to max level so that you can champion them. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't see it happening.

dude - you don't have to max everyone. I'm not maxing pun and psylocke and the dregs of the tier, and that's ok. if you use the hundreds of thousands of iso on "A COUPLE VERY USABLE CHARACTER", you then have some powerful, usable characters to use. use them. if they aren't usable, then you have to allocate your iso to its most effective area. that's what we all do. I just don't understand the issue. I use/endorse a tier system with my 3*s that will still be applicable even with this feature. my 140s will all get maxed some day but I'm not moaning about having to max them, and I'm not putting iso into them until I get my 4*s more up to speed, regardless of the new system. fist/mags/cyke/cage/kk - all deserved maxing before and still do, even more so now. pun/im40/rags/psy/sentry didn't deserve the iso before, and still don't. and I'm really not upset about not getting the champing benefits from them.

OneLastGambit

jobob wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

Jesus Christ.

No, it hasn't "increased dramatically." You've been given a content expansion and relative to what you have spent or need to spend to max the characters you've got, champion costs are a pittance.

You are almost certainly going to make those champion costs back in champion level rewards, never mind increased placement or progression rewards from a stronger roster.

Your ISO stash has not been devalued. It doesn't take a "significantly larger amount of ISO" to play the game.

There may well be issues unforeseen with this feature but ISO devaluation/inflation is not one of them. This isn't tough stuff, champ.

Umm... yes, it has increased DRAMATICALLY. You are counting just the championing fee, but completely disregarding the cost of ISO required to go to max level.

I highly doubt you are going to make back the hundreds of thousands in ISO it takes to bring a couple very usable characters up to max level so that you can champion them. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't see it happening.

It hasn't increased, the iso cost to max your character is the same as before. they haven't suddenly added to the iso cost (apart from the one time fee). What you mean is YOUR iso cost has increased because YOU decided to stunt your growth on purpose. The devs didn't do anything to your game, you did it by not playing the game as it was intended to be played. Also this shouldn't really be an issue for a soft-capper because if you are not spending your iso on levelling to the max like the rest of us then you had to have been saving it right? Where else could it be going?
You must be sitting on a mountain of iso anyway.

OzarkBoatswain

Good ones to champion will be 3* Black Widow or Scarlet Witch for "Winfinite" (Prof X + GSBW + SW) since you'll be able to level Prof X up higher and still get purple AP from his blue passive.

Ruinate

OneLastGambit wrote:

jobob wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

Jesus Christ.

No, it hasn't "increased dramatically." You've been given a content expansion and relative to what you have spent or need to spend to max the characters you've got, champion costs are a pittance.

You are almost certainly going to make those champion costs back in champion level rewards, never mind increased placement or progression rewards from a stronger roster.

Your ISO stash has not been devalued. It doesn't take a "significantly larger amount of ISO" to play the game.

There may well be issues unforeseen with this feature but ISO devaluation/inflation is not one of them. This isn't tough stuff, champ.

Umm... yes, it has increased DRAMATICALLY. You are counting just the championing fee, but completely disregarding the cost of ISO required to go to max level.

I highly doubt you are going to make back the hundreds of thousands in ISO it takes to bring a couple very usable characters up to max level so that you can champion them. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't see it happening.

It hasn't increased, the iso cost to max your character is the same as before. they haven't suddenly added to the iso cost (apart from the one time fee). What you mean is YOUR iso cost has increased because YOU decided to stunt your growth on purpose. The devs didn't do anything to your game, you did it by not playing the game as it was intended to be played. Also this shouldn't really be an issue for a soft-capper because if you are not spending your iso on levelling to the max like the rest of us then you had to have been saving it right? Where else could it be going?
You must be sitting on a mountain of iso anyway.

This is not true for all soft cappers. If you play a lot you can progress so fast that you acquire all the covers but not enough iso. My 3* are parked at 145 and lower because I have 4*'s that I need to feed. Now I need to play catchup and it's going to suck.