January Community Video: Champions Feature

Unknown

Mawtful wrote:

madok wrote:

They specifically mentioned that when you level up IM-40 you would eventually get hulkbuster covers and each character would be different. I'm curious what they will do with those characters that don't have a 3*/4* equivalent.

Heck I could spend hours going through all the reward charts and mapping out who I want to champion.

I just want a date on when this will go live as I have 50 3*/4* covers sitting in the queue.

In the next breath they specifically mentioned that Magneto would net you Professor X covers - as the character is heavily linked to Magneto. My only concern is what this possibly means for any 4*'s/5*'s to be released in the future? Let's say that Grocket and Gamora both eventually give out Star-lord covers - I think that's a reasonable assumption at this time. Now what if either Grocket or Gamora get a 4* treatment of their own? Yeah, that's unlikely, but doesn't it now seem a little weird that the 3*'s don't give the "right" 4* covers? Perhaps a better example might be Psylocke. There are a few characters in game right now that she could give covers for - in particular there's the X Force duo. So what happens if X Force Psylocke turns up, or Angel?

I know that it doesn't really matter. Those new characters will still be available via tokens, of course; it will just create a very definitive line between the characters that were release before championing and the characters that were released afterwards.

Yeah, and I can imagine a number of different ways this can turn sticky, too...


Lets say Championing was already a thing that existed, and we already had , but not .

Getting a Hulk to level 266 would reward you a Redhulk cover. Because Redhulk is pretty good, people put covers into him hoping to get one.

But then, oh hey, ChoHulk is coming out! And to make it more fair, we're changing some Championing rewards around, and now a level 266 Hulk will give you a ChoHulk cover.

However, people tend to agree that RedHulk is way better then ChoHulk, so all the people who were Championing Hulk specifically for that RedHulk cover are going to be preeeeeeeeetty peeved off.

Only way they can put in ChoHulk in without peeving off the RedHulk fans would be to have Hulk Levels give out BOTH RedHulk AND ChoHulk. And that is a bit more generous then originally intended....

And, well, if you're not going to be introducing any more 2 or 3 stars, you're not going to be introducing a lot of new Champion reward tiers for any new 4 stars, either...

It's tricky.

Lystrata

Hard to pass judgement until we see this in play, but it sounds great.

Loftus wrote:

I feel like i might be misunderstanding this, is each additional cover (once you champion a character) worth one solitary level?

If so, who is going to be able to actually get a tangible benefit out of it? I like the idea and it seems cool, but who ends up with 50 3 covers of the same character just lying around?

Who doesn't? I just opened my season 10 pack and got 5 3*s I can't use. DDQ gives you a 3* every day. PvE gives you a 3* for top 200 now. Heroic tokens pretty reliably give out 3*s.

I started 'saving' opened tokens for this feature 9 days ago, and I've got 5 She-Hulk, 4 Hulk, 3 Deadpool, 3 Loki, 3 Daredevil, 3 Gamora, 2 Colossus, 2 Blade, etc.

In 9 days of saving, I've got 37 3*s total. I really don't see it being difficult to gain the covers for this. If anything, it makes it worth opening tokens now.

Stax the Foyer

Pylgrim wrote:

But with he amount of time or money needed to get one extra 5* cover you could get several extra 4*s, and so going down on each rarity tier.

True. But think how sore your jaw will get.

Dragon_Nexus

Cymmina wrote:

Is Iron Man (Model 40) is going to be worth championing?

In his level rewards are Hulkbuster covers. No confirmation on how many but I'd assume at least one of each. A lot of 3* characters have 4* equivilents, so championing them would be helpful for getting their next-tier version.

When I'd heard little bits about this update, I tried to think of what they could be doing. And my cynical jaded mind went to a kind of boost system. I had in my head that D3 would drop the expiration time limit on covers and just encourage you to hoard them instead of selling them so you could use them before a fight like a boost. "Every cover you put on a character will level them up by five (up to a maximum of 5 covers used), but only for this fight. And the covers would be used up". Which would fit into D3's usual model of spending a lot of time and effort on making a feature that barely even shows up (vaults being so large as to make buying saving up a butt load of taco tokens the only viable method. Or CP that comes in very short supply. Or the ability to buy 5* tokens with more CP than any one man could possibly earn in a reasonable time frame.)

So I was bracing myself for something awful.

This...doesn't feel awful. I'm a little concerned for PvP in that I might end up going way behind the curve if I don't leap into every event going to champion up my 3*s to stay competitive. I'm not sure how whaling will be effected, whether people will drop a butt load of HP into buying tokens to get their favourite 3*s up to 266 ASAP.

I'm a little frustrated though since I have only Quicksilver to get to level 166 and I was done with the 3* transition. Now it feels like I've only just begun =P

DFiPL

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Cymmina wrote:

Is Iron Man (Model 40) is going to be worth championing?

In his level rewards are Hulkbuster covers. No confirmation on how many but I'd assume at least one of each. A lot of 3* characters have 4* equivilents, so championing them would be helpful for getting their next-tier version.

When I'd heard little bits about this update, I tried to think of what they could be doing. And my cynical jaded mind went to a kind of boost system. I had in my head that D3 would drop the expiration time limit on covers and just encourage you to hoard them instead of selling them so you could use them before a fight like a boost. "Every cover you put on a character will level them up by five (up to a maximum of 5 covers used), but only for this fight. And the covers would be used up". Which would fit into D3's usual model of spending a lot of time and effort on making a feature that barely even shows up (vaults being so large as to make buying saving up a butt load of taco tokens the only viable method. Or CP that comes in very short supply. Or the ability to buy 5* tokens with more CP than any one man could possibly earn in a reasonable time frame.)

So I was bracing myself for something awful.

This...doesn't feel awful. I'm a little concerned for PvP in that I might end up going way behind the curve if I don't leap into every event going to champion up my 3*s to stay competitive. I'm not sure how whaling will be effected, whether people will drop a butt load of HP into buying tokens to get their favourite 3*s up to 266 ASAP.

I'm a little frustrated though since I have only Quicksilver to get to level 166 and I was done with the 3* transition. Now it feels like I've only just begun =P

As I said elsewhere, New Game+!

(Gives you something to do while the 4* transition crawls past.)

blinktag

Cymmina wrote:

Is Iron Man (Model 40) is going to be worth championing? His best build is 5/5/2, which is only 12 covers out of 13. Will we ever see this character not suck?

Similar complaint: Prof X is best when not leveled fully, to keep him from tanking colors. So he's arguably *more* powerful without being fully leveled... At least until players get SW and GSBW championed further.

Dragon_Nexus

DFiPL wrote:

As I said elsewhere, New Game+!

(Gives you something to do while the 4* transition crawls past.)

Honestly, this is what was interesting me the most. I could see my 3* roster coming to an end and my 4* transition would need to begin in earnest. I decided that I'd break my soft cap of 170 once I'd got Quicksilver up to 166. When a 4* I could level over 170 was boosted that week, I'd start pouring ISO into them.

Now I'm needing to change my plans, and that's honestly okay with me. Seeing that list of rewards for each level surprised me.
For weeks (months?) we've been saying D3 is incredibly stingy when it comes to reward tiers and such, but this was a very nice surprise to see. I didn't expect more than a way of levelling characters beyond the existing cap somehow, to actually get *rewarded* for doing it is awesome. A grind feels like less of a grind if there's a pot of gold waiting at the end of...the...grindbow?

fmftint

I suppose it's too much to ask that they remove cover colors? Having extra covers doesn't do you any good for a character that's 5 5 2 since you can't max them with that build.

jobob

Explain to me why this doesn't suck...

All the characters I thought I had maxed... Aren't maxed any more.

The 4* that I had managed to get covered, but kept at 220 because of the ridiculous cost of leveling to 270 can't be championed

Duplicate covers of a character that isn't max level are still nearly worthless

The ISO stockpile that I did have- which was paltry compared to what I needed- is worth even less now relative to my needs


...again, I want to like it... But it sounds like it sucks.

Unknown

jobob wrote:

Explain to me why this doesn't suck...

All the characters I thought I had maxed... Aren't maxed any more.

The 4* that I had managed to get covered, but kept at 220 because of the ridiculous cost of leveling to 270 can't be championed

Duplicate covers of a character that isn't max level are still nearly worthless

The ISO stockpile that I did have- which was paltry compared to what I needed- is worth even less now relative to my needs


...again, I want to like it... But it sounds like it sucks.

You can continue to make progress with characters you did have maxed (And if at lower tiers, did not have use for), and in doing so, you'll get additional covers, HP, and CP. (Whether it'd be a net Iso gain or loss is to be figured out first.)

Covers you cannot use for championing can still be sold for Iso to contribute to that "Slowly leveling up 4*s, or saving to Champion a lower tier" cause, and you gain enough Iso to gain one level decently often enough.

If you do Champion, for each character you have Championed, you have one less reward or token draw that is nothing but a low amount of Iso to you.

There's some goods, although if you're in the "Literally all I need is Iso, and that is it" bracket you're already making slow steady progress so another version of slow steady progress may not be what you need.

DFiPL

jobob wrote:

Explain to me why this doesn't suck...

All the characters I thought I had maxed... Aren't maxed any more.

The 4* that I had managed to get covered, but kept at 220 because of the ridiculous cost of leveling to 270 can't be championed

Duplicate covers of a character that isn't max level are still nearly worthless

The ISO stockpile that I did have- which was paltry compared to what I needed- is worth even less now relative to my needs


...again, I want to like it... But it sounds like it sucks.

Your ISO stockpile hasn't been devalued. It's still necessary to level your 3's (if any need it) to the point that you could even drop 7,500 ISO * however many 3's you need to champion those, and you'd have to actually do something about leveling your 4* to 270 before you have to worry about those costs. It's not like it's suddenly costing you MORE to level to 166 or 270 or whatever than it did yesterday.

notamutant

This is genius from a money making perspective, and let me explain why. What other people haven't mentioned yet, is that you only benefit from this feature with a character that already has 13 covers. Keep getting covers that are at 5 instead of 2? Tough luck, you have to throw those extra covers out. But wait! We have a new incentive to not waste covers anymore! Do you know how you can do that? Buy those last covers! So now, when you get something you can't use, you will be pushed to buy that last cover before the current one expires. Smart finance decision by Demiurge.

GurlBYE

I'm just seeing a feature that can't be used by anyone except the mega wealthy and something that won't be used for months (potentially MULTIPLE years) from now.

50 extra covers of a 2 star is pricey and timely but doable.
100 3 stars is astronomical for 1 of 40 characters, all only available for HP, or winnings.
100 extra 4 stars of 25 at the rate they are given out is not even measurable.
100 5 stars extra in the current game is nothing but a joke, even when 6 stars and possibly 7 and 8 are around I don't see 5's being this achievable.
There aren't even enough relevant marvel characters to think about those tiers.

jobob

DFiPL wrote:

jobob wrote:

Explain to me why this doesn't suck...

All the characters I thought I had maxed... Aren't maxed any more.

The 4* that I had managed to get covered, but kept at 220 because of the ridiculous cost of leveling to 270 can't be championed

Duplicate covers of a character that isn't max level are still nearly worthless

The ISO stockpile that I did have- which was paltry compared to what I needed- is worth even less now relative to my needs

...again, I want to like it... But it sounds like it sucks.

Your ISO stockpile hasn't been devalued. It's still necessary to level your 3's (if any need it) to the point that you could even drop 7,500 ISO * however many 3's you need to champion those, and you'd have to actually do something about leveling your 4* to 270 before you have to worry about those costs. It's not like it's suddenly costing you MORE to level to 166 or 270 or whatever than it did yesterday.

I guess it depends on how you define "value," but IMO has absolutely been devalued. It's inflation... All the houses In town that I wanted to buy just went from $166,000 to $266,000. Whatever cash I had doesn't go as far. Call it whatever you want, but the ISO gap from where I am to where I want to be just widened significantly.

GurlBYE

People weren't just softcapping because they didn't want to be scaled poorly.

It's also because they probably couldn't level all 40 of their 3 stars at once.

Speaking of the idea that you aren't ready to transition till you have all of 'tier before' (not in this thread yet, just an aside idea)
funny that so many are wanting to get into 5's when 4's aren't done yet.

jobob

notamutant wrote:

This is genius from a money making perspective, and let me explain why. What other people haven't mentioned yet, is that you only benefit from this feature with a character that already has 13 covers. Keep getting covers that are at 5 instead of 2? Tough luck, you have to throw those extra covers out. But wait! We have a new incentive to not waste covers anymore! Do you know how you can do that? Buy those last covers! So now, when you get something you can't use, you will be pushed to buy that last cover before the current one expires. Smart finance decision by Demiurge.

Don't forget that now you have a reason to buy feature packs against n for that 3 or 4* you already maxed!

Mawtful

colwag wrote:

And, well, if you're not going to be introducing any more 2 or 3 stars, you're not going to be introducing a lot of new Champion reward tiers for any new 4 stars, either...

It's tricky.

Ah, yeah, this was the other point I wanted to make. It almost feels like it makes sense to release more 2 and 3 star characters in order to support the future 4 and 5 star releases. Having the same character at 3 or 4 rarities then makes a really clear path of progression - level AXM Wolverine and champion him to get some Patch covers to level and champion him to get some XFW covers to level and champion him to get some OML covers. Given the scarcity of covers at any tier of play, I understand why this isn't the case.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like a weird idea. It's like championing encourages conflicting points of both levelling every character and only keeping a selective roster at the same time. Part of me wants to sell off Thor and Ragnarok, since a Champion Kamala will easily out perform either, but knowing that both those guys will probably give 4* Thor covers means I kind of want to keep them around. Better start hoarding that HP I guess.

Lystrata

GurlBYE wrote:

I'm just seeing a feature that can't be used by anyone except the mega wealthy and something that won't be used for months (potentially MULTIPLE years) from now.

50 extra covers of a 2 star is pricey and timely but doable.
100 3 stars is astronomical for 1 of 40 characters, all only available for HP, or winnings.
100 extra 4 stars of 25 at the rate they are given out is not even measurable.
100 5 stars extra in the current game is nothing but a joke, even when 6 stars and possibly 7 and 8 are around I don't see 5's being this achievable.
There aren't even enough relevant marvel characters to think about those tiers.

Why would you need 100 3 stars before this could be used, though? You seem to be suggesting it's pointless unless you can do the whole 100 levels - which isn't really true.

And it doesn't take months to gather up a decent amount of 3*s. In 9 days I've opened 37 3*s - and I don't even play PvP, so that's ignoring the rewards given out there entirely.

This seems like a really good fix for 2* and 3* characters. Yes, it'll take a bit longer for it to be viable as a 4* path for most people, and ages until it's relevant as a 5* path, but... why is that a bad thing? Shows they're thinking long-term, which I quite like.

It also saves the dread of buying that 'last cover', in case you instantly open it with the next token you get. Now you can buy covers if/when you need, without fear of potentially wasting HP.

jobob

aesthetocyst wrote:

jobob wrote:

I guess it depends on how you define "value," but IMO has absolutely been devalued. It's inflation... All the houses In town that I wanted to buy just went from $166,000 to $266,000. Whatever cash I had doesn't go as far. Call it whatever you want, but the ISO gap from where I am to where I want to be just widened significantly.

Faulty analogy, unless those houses also got 60% bigger, and have the same upfront cost, and allow you to pay the rest with found objects over time.

I swear the gymnastics engaged in this forum in order to find a complaint about he sunniest day put Olympic medalists to shame.

That's just it, though... The houses aren't getting bigger when you put it in the context of a PVP game where the most important thing is to be at max level.

DFiPL

jobob wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

jobob wrote:

Explain to me why this doesn't suck...

All the characters I thought I had maxed... Aren't maxed any more.

The 4* that I had managed to get covered, but kept at 220 because of the ridiculous cost of leveling to 270 can't be championed

Duplicate covers of a character that isn't max level are still nearly worthless

The ISO stockpile that I did have- which was paltry compared to what I needed- is worth even less now relative to my needs

...again, I want to like it... But it sounds like it sucks.

Your ISO stockpile hasn't been devalued. It's still necessary to level your 3's (if any need it) to the point that you could even drop 7,500 ISO * however many 3's you need to champion those, and you'd have to actually do something about leveling your 4* to 270 before you have to worry about those costs. It's not like it's suddenly costing you MORE to level to 166 or 270 or whatever than it did yesterday.

I guess it depends on how you define "value," but IMO has absolutely been devalued. It's inflation... All the houses In town that I wanted to buy just went from $166,000 to $266,000. Whatever cash I had doesn't go as far. Call it whatever you want, but the ISO gap from where I am to where I want to be just widened significantly.

Nah. See, whatever your cost is to 166 or 270 hasn't changed, except for a modest one-time "champion" fee. There are an additional 100 levels to earn on those characters, sure, but they aren't costing you anything unless you gotta have it nownownowrightnowdammitnow and spend all your HP on Heroic 40 packs so you can get the 3* you need. Or whatever.

The covers you open or earn over time go into those 166 or 270 characters, and you get rewards for feeding them those extra covers, as well as additional flexibility with that character - you can respec them at any time once they're championed. At, again, no additional cost.

Think of this as more like you wanted to buy that house for $166,000 but the developer has tacked on an extra $7,500 in exchange for the ability to sprout additional guest rooms in some kind of bizarre tower reaching to the sky, as well as the ability to change the layout of the floor plan at will.

That ain't remotely close to inflation.

Yeah, you need the covers to add the levels, but presumably you're going to get those covers doing the same things you always did: placement in PVE/PVP, progression rewards, daily drop tokens, tacos, etc.

Boo effing hoo.