January Community Video: Champions Feature

GurlBYE

Lystrata wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

I'm just seeing a feature that can't be used by anyone except the mega wealthy and something that won't be used for months (potentially MULTIPLE years) from now.

50 extra covers of a 2 star is pricey and timely but doable.
100 3 stars is astronomical for 1 of 40 characters, all only available for HP, or winnings.
100 extra 4 stars of 25 at the rate they are given out is not even measurable.
100 5 stars extra in the current game is nothing but a joke, even when 6 stars and possibly 7 and 8 are around I don't see 5's being this achievable.
There aren't even enough relevant marvel characters to think about those tiers.

Why would you need 100 3 stars before this could be used, though? You seem to be suggesting it's pointless unless you can do the whole 100 levels - which isn't really true.

And it doesn't take months to gather up a decent amount of 3*s. In 9 days I've opened 37 3*s - and I don't even play PvP, so that's ignoring the rewards given out there entirely.

This seems like a really good fix for 2* and 3* characters. Yes, it'll take a bit longer for it to be viable as a 4* path for most people, and ages until it's relevant as a 5* path, but... why is that a bad thing? Shows they're thinking long-term, which I quite like.

It also saves the dread of buying that 'last cover', in case you instantly open it with the next token you get. Now you can buy covers if/when you need, without fear of potentially wasting HP.

it's not a before it can be used, but more of a potential of said thing. I guess I was expecting more of a feature that benefited more immediate gameplay instead of a roundabout way of solving a long complained about thing.

This sort of 'solves' the problem of transitions and rewards we don't want by adding optional leveling that wasn't really needed that sort of adds a level of complexity.
Like hood was my first fully covered 3 and even with enough iso to fully level him, it felt like a bad idea to do that.

GurlBYE

DFiPL wrote:

Nah. See, whatever your cost is to 166 or 270 hasn't changed, except for a modest one-time "champion" fee. There are an additional 100 levels to earn on those characters, sure, but they aren't costing you anything unless you gotta have it nownownowrightnowdammitnow and spend all your HP on Heroic 40 packs so you can get the 3* you need. Or whatever.

The covers you open or earn over time go into those 166 or 270 characters, and you get rewards for feeding them those extra covers, as well as additional flexibility with that character - you can respec them at any time once they're championed. At, again, no additional cost.

Think of this as more like you wanted to buy that house for $166,000 but the developer has tacked on an extra $7,500 in exchange for the ability to sprout additional guest rooms in some kind of bizarre tower reaching to the sky, as well as the ability to change the layout of the floor plan at will.

That ain't remotely close to inflation.

Yeah, you need the covers to add the levels, but presumably you're going to get those covers doing the same things you always did: placement in PVE/PVP, progression rewards, daily drop tokens, tacos, etc.

Boo effing hoo.

While i see what you're saying, you can down play the idea that people won't do the paying $XXX,XXX to advance, but we all saw how soon the first 5 star was maxed after it was paywalled.

it's kinda no less valid then your opinion even if I don't have the same fears.

DFiPL

GurlBYE wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

Nah. See, whatever your cost is to 166 or 270 hasn't changed, except for a modest one-time "champion" fee. There are an additional 100 levels to earn on those characters, sure, but they aren't costing you anything unless you gotta have it nownownowrightnowdammitnow and spend all your HP on Heroic 40 packs so you can get the 3* you need. Or whatever.

The covers you open or earn over time go into those 166 or 270 characters, and you get rewards for feeding them those extra covers, as well as additional flexibility with that character - you can respec them at any time once they're championed. At, again, no additional cost.

Think of this as more like you wanted to buy that house for $166,000 but the developer has tacked on an extra $7,500 in exchange for the ability to sprout additional guest rooms in some kind of bizarre tower reaching to the sky, as well as the ability to change the layout of the floor plan at will.

That ain't remotely close to inflation.

Yeah, you need the covers to add the levels, but presumably you're going to get those covers doing the same things you always did: placement in PVE/PVP, progression rewards, daily drop tokens, tacos, etc.

Boo effing hoo.

While i see what you're saying, you can down play the idea that people won't do the paying $XXX,XXX to advance, but we all saw how soon the first 5 star was maxed after it was paywalled.

it's kinda no less valid then your opinion even if I don't have the same fears.

I'm not even talking about whether the gap between transitioners and those fully in 3* or 4* land is going to widen or not.

That is a completely separate discussion - and one worth having, to be sure - from whether or not championing constitutes "inflation."

It doesn't.

Lystrata

GurlBYE wrote:

Lystrata wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

I'm just seeing a feature that can't be used by anyone except the mega wealthy and something that won't be used for months (potentially MULTIPLE years) from now.

50 extra covers of a 2 star is pricey and timely but doable.
100 3 stars is astronomical for 1 of 40 characters, all only available for HP, or winnings.
100 extra 4 stars of 25 at the rate they are given out is not even measurable.
100 5 stars extra in the current game is nothing but a joke, even when 6 stars and possibly 7 and 8 are around I don't see 5's being this achievable.
There aren't even enough relevant marvel characters to think about those tiers.

Why would you need 100 3 stars before this could be used, though? You seem to be suggesting it's pointless unless you can do the whole 100 levels - which isn't really true.

And it doesn't take months to gather up a decent amount of 3*s. In 9 days I've opened 37 3*s - and I don't even play PvP, so that's ignoring the rewards given out there entirely.

This seems like a really good fix for 2* and 3* characters. Yes, it'll take a bit longer for it to be viable as a 4* path for most people, and ages until it's relevant as a 5* path, but... why is that a bad thing? Shows they're thinking long-term, which I quite like.

It also saves the dread of buying that 'last cover', in case you instantly open it with the next token you get. Now you can buy covers if/when you need, without fear of potentially wasting HP.

it's not a before it can be used, but more of a potential of said thing. I guess I was expecting more of a feature that benefited more immediate gameplay instead of a roundabout way of solving a long complained about thing.

This sort of 'solves' the problem of transitions and rewards we don't want by adding optional leveling that wasn't really needed that sort of adds a level of complexity.

I think it does benefit immediate gameplay. Anyone in the 2* transition will find it almost instantly, if not instantly, useful. Levelling up Ares and BW will make 2* teams much more competitive. Anyone with a max 3* can immediately make their 3*s more powerful. Etc. It seems like this will be a good balance of super speeding up 2* competitiveness, relatively easily bringing up 3* competitiveness, and rather slowly bringing up 4* competitiveness.

If you have IF and I have IF, and you get an extra cover and add it... you're instantly a little bit better off than I am. 1 cover is literally all it takes. That's an immediate upgrade, immediate benefit, and immediately stops wasting extra covers.

While, in the long-term, it will slowly benefit 4*s and 5*s. (I'm ignoring whales here, because regardless of any feature, whales gonna whale. Sick of seeing them thrown about as a reason why a feature shouldn't exist.)

Will people with mainly 2* rosters be able to take on a 4* team because of this? No. Should they be able to? No. But maybe they don't get wiped out so easily in PvE. Maybe they take on a few more teams in Shield. Maybe they can complete the prologue a bit faster / bit more easily (which I still haven't done, because I got sick of being crushed early on and by the time I could do it easily, random standard covers didn't interest me). And maybe these things build them up a bit faster, etc.

The game is literally just a slow walk through tiers. As far as I see it, this just speeds up that walk a bit at lower levels. It doesn't negate it. And shouldn't.

jobob

DFiPL wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

DFiPL wrote:

Nah. See, whatever your cost is to 166 or 270 hasn't changed, except for a modest one-time "champion" fee. There are an additional 100 levels to earn on those characters, sure, but they aren't costing you anything unless you gotta have it nownownowrightnowdammitnow and spend all your HP on Heroic 40 packs so you can get the 3* you need. Or whatever.

The covers you open or earn over time go into those 166 or 270 characters, and you get rewards for feeding them those extra covers, as well as additional flexibility with that character - you can respec them at any time once they're championed. At, again, no additional cost.

Think of this as more like you wanted to buy that house for $166,000 but the developer has tacked on an extra $7,500 in exchange for the ability to sprout additional guest rooms in some kind of bizarre tower reaching to the sky, as well as the ability to change the layout of the floor plan at will.

That ain't remotely close to inflation.

Yeah, you need the covers to add the levels, but presumably you're going to get those covers doing the same things you always did: placement in PVE/PVP, progression rewards, daily drop tokens, tacos, etc.

Boo effing hoo.

While i see what you're saying, you can down play the idea that people won't do the paying $XXX,XXX to advance, but we all saw how soon the first 5 star was maxed after it was paywalled.

it's kinda no less valid then your opinion even if I don't have the same fears.

I'm not even talking about whether the gap between transitioners and those fully in 3* or 4* land is going to widen or not.

That is a completely separate discussion - and one worth having, to be sure - from whether or not championing constitutes "inflation."

It doesn't.

Well then let's not have a discussion about it, I don't care if we call it inflation or not. The point is that you get zero benefit out of this system if your characters aren't maxed... And those that are "maxed" now aren't even truly at max level anymore. It's a system that's designed around making it much more important to take every character possible to max non-champion level, when before you could get away with taking them to a decent level without losing much. So I stand by my statement that this devalues an ISO stockpile.

Norrin Radd

I don't see how this system helps "speed up" anything. You get extra levels on characters, but so does everyone else, and in fact if you have bad luck on token pulls who knows how long it can take to get a few extra levels. It's really cool that we have a use for extra covers, but now my roster of maxed out characters is no longer maxed and I feel like all my hard work over 2 years of playing is now de-valued. I don't need an extra few levels on my 3 stars, what I need is a more balanced way to get Iso to level up four stars. This may help some average players, but really it's just distracting them from the real issues of balance this game is creating.
Sorry for long post and rant. Maybe my mind will chance after we see the update take place.

morph3us

Norrin Radd wrote:

I don't see how this system helps "speed up" anything. You get extra levels on characters, but so does everyone else, and in fact if you have bad luck on token pulls who knows how long it can take to get a few extra levels. It's really cool that we have a use for extra covers, but now my roster of maxed out characters is no longer maxed and I feel like all my hard work over 2 years of playing is now de-valued. I don't need an extra few levels on my 3 stars, what I need is a more balanced way to get Iso to level up four stars. This may help some average players, but really it's just distracting them from the real issues of balance this game is creating.
Sorry for long post and rant. Maybe my mind will chance after we see the update take place.

I think it's less the extra levels, and more the perks you get with each Champion level that will help a bit. Granted, Championing is completely useless until you get some maxed characters to Champion, but it's these perks that will hopefully help with progression too:



And has been said, it probably will help some players start their move from 2* to 3*, or 3* to 4*, with extra covers of a higher rarity etc. That roster of maxed and now unmaxed characters should hopefully also start to produce some nice rewards for you when you pull dupes too.

fmftint

I don't know, I feel like I'm being pitched by a snake oil salesman.

You have covers you don't need, champion! Oh, you're not max leveled, max them out! Oh, you don't have iso, $99 will get you 78k!

PeterGibbons316

Norrin Radd wrote:

I don't see how this system helps "speed up" anything. You get extra levels on characters, but so does everyone else, and in fact if you have bad luck on token pulls who knows how long it can take to get a few extra levels. It's really cool that we have a use for extra covers, but now my roster of maxed out characters is no longer maxed and I feel like all my hard work over 2 years of playing is now de-valued. I don't need an extra few levels on my 3 stars, what I need is a more balanced way to get Iso to level up four stars. This may help some average players, but really it's just distracting them from the real issues of balance this game is creating.
Sorry for long post and rant. Maybe my mind will chance after we see the update take place.

This will make players with 2* rosters more competitive a lot more quickly. In a matter of weeks we will start to see 2*s capped at 144, while 3*s will still hover pretty close to their current 166 max. Think of how long it took you to cover max your 3* roster......now multiply that by 7.5 before you see 3*s at 266.

For me this is fantastic. I'm excited about not always just hitting "sell all" every time I look at my rewards screen. I'm excited about actually caring about the cover rewards in PvP and maybe pushing for Top 5 to earn that one extra 3* cover. This is a welcome feature that is definitely going to keep MPQ from getting stale on me.

Norrin Radd

The rewards and the re-specs are awesome, but they could have found a better way to give us both of those things without throwing the game out of balance. Just give us something to dump extra covers in and when we hit a certain number it gives us rewards. Like I said I want to wait before I make any stupid statements, but right now I feel like it's just taking away any sense of completion.

Mawtful

Crop your quotes, kids.

And stay in school!

BlackSheep101

Norrin Radd wrote:

Like I said I want to wait before I make any stupid statements, but right now I feel like it's just taking away any sense of completion.

They have a vested interest in preventing a feeling of completion. People that "finish" stop playing sooner rather than later.

I'd sum this change up by saying it's going to make continuing to play more fun. Everyone seems so focused on the end game implications or how this will alter the metagame, but I'm happy I get to do something cool with my extra covers.

DFiPL

jobob wrote:

Well then let's not have a discussion about it, I don't care if we call it inflation or not. The point is that you get zero benefit out of this system if your characters aren't maxed... And those that are "maxed" now aren't even truly at max level anymore. It's a system that's designed around making it much more important to take every character possible to max non-champion level, when before you could get away with taking them to a decent level without losing much. So I stand by my statement that this devalues an ISO stockpile.

But that's the thing. It doesn't. The ONLY impact to your ISO stockpile is the cost to "champion" any given character. There is literally ZERO ISO COST, once you've championed a max level character from your roster, to go from 94 to 144. Or from 166 to 266. Or from 270 to 370. Or from 450 to (lol) 550.

Opportunity cost, sure, because you're using covers you might otherwise grind into ISO, but your stockpile? Itself? Is going to go exactly as far post-championing as it ever has. The cost to level your character from 15 to 94 or 30 to 166 or 70 to 270 or whatever will be precisely the same. And, as pointed out repeatedly, there will be rewards for every level that character earns thereafter. How much? Good question. We'll find out. But it's probably a safe bet that you're going to earn back at least equivalent value, if not more so, over the course of those 50-100 levels added. How is that inflation, if at reaching 144 you've earned back 5000 ISO, or goods of equivalent value?

Hint: it isn't. And you can't say "well it's not inflation but my bankroll has been devalued" because that's what inflation IS. If you concede that it's not inflation...there's been no devaluation.

Pongie

DFiPL wrote:

And, as pointed out repeatedly, there will be rewards for every level that character earns thereafter. How much? Good question. We'll find out. But it's probably a safe bet that you're going to earn back at least equivalent value, if not more so, over the course of those 50-100 levels added.

50x 2* covers at 250 ISO each is 12.5k ISO. I agree that the rewards will most likely be more, even when you factor the 5k champion fee.

100x 3* covers at 500 ISO is 50k ISO. This might be cutting it close but if you get a cover or two, it will still make it worthwhile. Again, even if you factor in the 7.5k champion fee.

100x 4* covers at 1k iso is 100k ISO. At this stage though, any non 5* cover is probably useless. If the amount of HP and command points are minimal, most people would have been better off with the 100k ISO. Though apart from the whales, who here actually has 100 4* dupes sitting around?

What may end up happening if the rewards are decent, is the 2* and 3* champions being farmed. Roster slots may be high but eventually, the rewards will pay for it. Unless the champion level rewards can only be earned once regardless of many dupes you have.

edit: fixed 2* ISO sell rate

GurlBYE

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

This will make players with 2* rosters more competitive a lot more quickly. In a matter of weeks we will start to see 2*s capped at 144, while 3*s will still hover pretty close to their current 166 max. Think of how long it took you to cover max your 3* roster......now multiply that by 7.5 before you see 3*s at 266.

For me this is fantastic. I'm excited about not always just hitting "sell all" every time I look at my rewards screen. I'm excited about actually caring about the cover rewards in PvP and maybe pushing for Top 5 to earn that one extra 3* cover. This is a welcome feature that is definitely going to keep MPQ from getting stale on me.

I think the competitive a lot more quickly won't mean much, with the distribution of covers not changing everyone will chase after championing the exact same 2 stars, especially the vets who have long since stopped opening tokens.

I mean we only know that the counter doesn't pass 999 because of someones screenshot from these forums. 2 star players usually don't have enough iso at all.


but we'll see how it all plays out shortly.

fmftint

I just took stock of my current cover queue, 13 3* characters in my queue are champion eligible, 4 2* characters champion eligible. Cost of entry: 117,500 iso

This doen't include 3 and 4*s that I could make champion eligible

Dragon_Nexus

Pongie wrote:

50x 2* covers at 100 ISO each is 5k ISO.

1* covers are 100 ISO. 2* covers are 250.

So 50 x 250 is a rather less reasonable 12,500

STOPTHIS

I like the sound of the mechanic overall. I can't wait to start taking up Ares and OBW and the like.

It's also brilliant move against softcappers like myself, but I think I'm going to wait on these supposed new scaling fixes (I've heard that one before) before I make that leap with my 3*s.

Linkster79

Lystrata wrote:

And it doesn't take months to gather up a decent amount of 3*s. In 9 days I've opened 37 3*s - and I don't even play PvP, so that's ignoring the rewards given out there entirely.

Good for you, you make up for mine and others terrible luck!

For 3 months I was opening tokens and did not get a single 3* or better cover. I play versus and story, not competitively I will admit but enough to pick up a fair few tokens including the season 10 pack. Have you any idea what it is like to open a 10 pack 3 seasons in a row to get 30 x 2* covers? Any idea what it is like to get both taco tokens every day and never hit gold for months on end? I can tell you it is beyond demoralising and enough to make one quit. You say it doesn't take !months to open a decent number of 3*'s and I say bollocks, if the RNG doesn't favour you then you are **** outta luck. If it wasn't for covers at progression rewards my transition would be non existent.

Quebbster

Curious to see where this will go. I realized a while ago I don't have much to strive for in this game anymore - my four-star roster is coming along nicely and I don't really need much even from Legendary tokens anymore, so maybe it would not be worth continuing to play. With this feature, things might get interesting again...