Championing info is starting to go live in the press!

DaveR4470

By the time we start seeing max-championed 5* teams, we'll be complaining about 6*s ruining the game....

whoami24601

BumpoTheClown wrote:

Kabir Hemrajani wrote:

That said, we've made a big push to litter MPQ with obtainable Legendary Tokens to help the average player along the 4-star transition. If you play daily, you'll easily be able to pick up a Legendary Token as the Progression reward in Story events. You'll also pull a few out of the Deadpool Daily Vault.

Does that really reflect D3's collective opinion of how easy it is to get Legendary tokens? Because if so... that's a pretty substantial disconnect from reality, from where I'm standing. I play MPQ daily, often far more than is reasonable, and I've never once gotten a Legendary from the PvE side. Not even close. Of course I also don't grind through a completion cycle every eight hours.

I have gotten a Legendary from the DDQ vault once, I think.

It's hard to place much confidence in the developers' ability to improve the game if their perception of where things stand now is so skewed. So am I off here, or are they? It seems to me the words "average player" and "litter[ed] with... Legendary Tokens" don't really belong in the same bookshelf, much less the same sentence.

No matter how good of a driver you are, it's going to be a hard drive to New York if you think you're starting in Chicago and you're actually in Sydney.

Can't really disagree. Never gotten a PvE token myself, and I hit at least two refreshes per sub. Sometimes miss the third, because of work, baby, sleep, etc. It's certainly not a "just play daily" casual thing like they imply. It's a "schedule multiple coordinated play times daily" to have any chance. And while I've hit 1300 in PvP before I don't really have time or inclination to do that regulalrly, because of the aforementioned IRL.

There's no "available" LTs "littered" for the "average" player. And the Vault is a joke. 1/300 isn't available, even if you don't save tacos to actually get guaranteed results (which I do).

Arimis_Thorn

BumpoTheClown wrote:

Kabir Hemrajani wrote:

That said, we've made a big push to litter MPQ with obtainable Legendary Tokens to help the average player along the 4-star transition. If you play daily, you'll easily be able to pick up a Legendary Token as the Progression reward in Story events. You'll also pull a few out of the Deadpool Daily Vault.

Does that really reflect D3's collective opinion of how easy it is to get Legendary tokens? Because if so... that's a pretty substantial disconnect from reality, from where I'm standing. I play MPQ daily, often far more than is reasonable, and I've never once gotten a Legendary from the PvE side. Not even close. Of course I also don't grind through a completion cycle every eight hours.

I have gotten a Legendary from the DDQ vault once, I think.

It's hard to place much confidence in the developers' ability to improve the game if their perception of where things stand now is so skewed. So am I off here, or are they? It seems to me the words "average player" and "litter[ed] with... Legendary Tokens" don't really belong in the same bookshelf, much less the same sentence.

No matter how good of a driver you are, it's going to be a hard drive to New York if you think you're starting in Chicago and you're actually in Sydney.

I also play daily and also far more than is reasonable, and I've only NOT gotten the LT is PVE a couple times specifically because I chose not to. So from my play experience, your experience baffles me.

Dayv

Arimis Thorn wrote:

I also play daily and also far more than is reasonable, and I've only NOT gotten the LT is PVE a couple times specifically because I chose not to. So from my play experience, your experience baffles me.

How many hours a day, just for PvE?

slidecage

DayvBang wrote:

Arimis Thorn wrote:

I also play daily and also far more than is reasonable, and I've only NOT gotten the LT is PVE a couple times specifically because I chose not to. So from my play experience, your experience baffles me.

How many hours a day, just for PvE?

my girlfriend told me if i wake her up one more time at 4am playing PVE shes leaving

GurlBYE

DayvBang wrote:

Arimis Thorn wrote:

I also play daily and also far more than is reasonable, and I've only NOT gotten the LT is PVE a couple times specifically because I chose not to. So from my play experience, your experience baffles me.

How many hours a day, just for PvE?

How many hours isn't the correct question when it requires 3 plays of all nodes but all must be 8 hours away from each other.

A day is only 24 hours, as are most subs.

Mawtful

colwag wrote:

Kabir wrote:

We continue creating new powers that let our 4 and 5-stars do more varied and interesting things, which makes for a more interesting game as you progress, and means there's more to look forward to as you continue playing.

<snip/>

I don't know, I think the Passives tend to be the most interesting, if not the most character-defining abilities a character can have, and have the most room for new flexibility compared to most actives.

Only issue is that the passives also tend to make characters more situational, for better or worse? Like, Doctor Octopus isn't a great character, unless you're messing with Dakens or Carnages. Then he's suddenly decently better, and junk.

I disagree, to an extent, that new "varied" powers is equivalent to "more interesting". I've talked elsewhere about "training characters", such as Ares who almost perfectly presents the start of a path which leads players to Hulkbuster. In these cases, it's the similarity to existing powers which makes the game "interesting as you progress" (which is what the devs are apparently going for).

However, I agree that passive abilities can be interesting and are best equipped to allow for flexibility of the game's rules, but I also think the way that they are being distributed right now (as just straight passives) is utterly boring. These are usually "reactionary" abilities (when X happens, Y happens). I'd much rather see more passive effects which are always in play like Venom's tile strength manipulation or, say, Surfer's stun immunity, as these can really create unique abilities. Here's a super quick example:

Ability (9 AP)
Do big damage. This ability becomes Alt-Mode.
Passive: This character is immune to stun.

Alt-Mode (9 AP)
Destroy some enemy special tiles. This ability becomes Ability
Passive: This character takes extra damage when stunned.

This is an alt-mode ability - like Hide & Seek or Pym Particles - except the only way to change it back is to fire the alternate ability. The first ability is also an active/passive ability and grants the character immunity to stun, the secondary ability, however, not only removes that immunity, but the character will take extra damage if they are attacked while stunned. So you can hit someone for big damage, but expose a weakness which can be exploited. In this case, the passive components dictate constraints on the character and indicate that this ability should probably be used strategically.

Nick441234

slidecage wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

Arimis Thorn wrote:

I also play daily and also far more than is reasonable, and I've only NOT gotten the LT is PVE a couple times specifically because I chose not to. So from my play experience, your experience baffles me.

How many hours a day, just for PvE?

my girlfriend told me if i wake her up one more time at 4am playing PVE shes leaving

You must pick the oddest time slice. I do the 11pm bracket as it fits round work and life perfectly. One clear before bed, one before going to work and one when I get home from work + the grind down to 1 point. It works perfectly like that and doesn't interfere with your life.

simonsez

Arimis Thorn wrote:

I also play daily and also far more than is reasonable, and I've only NOT gotten the LT is PVE a couple times specifically because I chose not to. So from my play experience, your experience baffles me.

Nah, it's not baffling. People will continue to routinely complain incorrectly that getting the PvE LT requires insane amounts of scheduling and effort, because it's easier than saying, "How do you expect to find 90 minutes a day to sit and play this game? Now leave me alone because I have to go sit and watch the last 6 episodes of Making a Murderer"

TxMoose

personally I think this disconnect is that what they talk about as the 'average player' is actually a 'higher end average vet player'. take the vet pve bracket of 1000 players and the average player finishes 500th. how many brackets have 500 getting to the LT? none. it's not horribly difficult for maybe the top half of the forumites who have settled into an mpq friendly schedule (play morning, lunch, evening). sorry, but that is not the 'average' player. and when the true 'average' player sees the devs throw those statements around, I'm betting its kinda demoralizing.

pheregas

I'm going to call myself cautiously optimistic here. Now we can gain a level per useless cover with a nominal iso charge up front.

And continuing to apply future covers to level them will yield Iso rewards, so the loss of iso revenue may be made up by these upgrades, especially by upgrading as many 2s as possible to get their champion leveling rewards.

My question is though...

Are they working on what to do with duplicate 4* covers other then selling them? I have 3 cover maxed 4's, only one of which is even close to taking to 270. But I have my 2/4/5 thing and my 5/1/3 Prof X. I currently have my 9th overall Thing Green sitting in storage and my 6th Prof X Blue. Since neither of these two characters are up to 13 covers, I will be forced to sell the duplicates for ISO.

I applaud the efforts to revolutionize the way covers are used! But also please address this issue with extra 4s. Even my Invisible Woman only has 12 covers, so I can't reap the rewards of Championing her if I get yet another of her yellow covers.

simonsez

pheregas wrote:

Are they working on what to do with duplicate 4* covers other then selling them?

An alliance-mate already submitted a ticket about this, and has already had it rejected.

BumpoTheClown

TxMoose wrote:

personally I think this disconnect is that what they talk about as the 'average player' is actually a 'higher end average vet player'. take the vet pve bracket of 1000 players and the average player finishes 500th. how many brackets have 500 getting to the LT? none. it's not horribly difficult for maybe the top half of the forumites who have settled into an mpq friendly schedule (play morning, lunch, evening). sorry, but that is not the 'average' player. and when the true 'average' player sees the devs throw those statements around, I'm betting its kinda demoralizing.

I think this is very true. The average forum-reading player isn't the same as the average player out in the wild; I'd expect that most of those who are registered here easily fall into the top half, at least, of the playerbase. The press articles out on major game sites, however, ought to be targeted at the masses -- the main goal there is to bring in new players, I'd imagine, not to fire up those who are already committed to the game.

I also think it's important to distinguish between subjective and objective terms. "Insane", "reasonable", "casual", "vet", "normal", "easy", hard".... these are all subjective, and can't really be applied even-handedly across players with very different life circumstances. "90 minutes a day" is a perfectly objective term, as are "once a day", "three times a day", "only play on weekends" and what have you.

Statements like "In order to get the LT from a typical PvE event, a player will probably have to spend between an hour and an hour and a half each day of the event, spread into three roughly evenly-spaced sessions throughout the day" can be meaningfully evaluated, and we can ask whether this is the developers' intent or not. (Just making up numbers there; not sure what the real ones would be.) Statements like "it takes way too much effort to the get the LT from a typical PvE event" are vacuous; no two people will have the exact same opinion as to what "too much" means.

This has drifted kind of far afield from the subject of the thread, though.

Thor82

To Champion a character will initially cost X amount of ISO-8. After that intial Iso-8 cost, to reach let's say level 95 it will cost any Cover of that character. So to reach level 100 it will cost 0 Iso-8 (zero) but it will cost you 5 cover of that said character.

So instead of selling that cover lets say for 250 Iso-8 . You can level that character for 1 level.

I hope this makes sense.

kalex716

BumpoTheClown wrote:

TxMoose wrote:

personally I think this disconnect is that what they talk about as the 'average player' is actually a 'higher end average vet player'. take the vet pve bracket of 1000 players and the average player finishes 500th. how many brackets have 500 getting to the LT? none. it's not horribly difficult for maybe the top half of the forumites who have settled into an mpq friendly schedule (play morning, lunch, evening). sorry, but that is not the 'average' player. and when the true 'average' player sees the devs throw those statements around, I'm betting its kinda demoralizing.

I think this is very true. The average forum-reading player isn't the same as the average player out in the wild; I'd expect that most of those who are registered here easily fall into the top half, at least, of the playerbase. The press articles out on major game sites, however, ought to be targeted at the masses -- the main goal there is to bring in new players, I'd imagine, not to fire up those who are already committed to the game.

I also think it's important to distinguish between subjective and objective terms. "Insane", "reasonable", "casual", "vet", "normal", "easy", hard".... these are all subjective, and can't really be applied even-handedly across players with very different life circumstances. "90 minutes a day" is a perfectly objective term, as are "once a day", "three times a day", "only play on weekends" and what have you.

Statements like "In order to get the LT from a typical PvE event, a player will probably have to spend between an hour and an hour and a half each day of the event, spread into three roughly evenly-spaced sessions throughout the day" can be meaningfully evaluated, and we can ask whether this is the developers' intent or not. (Just making up numbers there; not sure what the real ones would be.) Statements like "it takes way too much effort to the get the LT from a typical PvE event" are vacuous; no two people will have the exact same opinion as to what "too much" means.

This has drifted kind of far afield from the subject of the thread, though.

Thanks for sharing. Your point should be included in every meaningful discussion thread on this forum actually. Its not far afield at all.