Stop giving 20 ISO rewards first, discussion and musings

Crowl

I know this point has been raised many times in the past but it is going to seriously piss off far more players now that some nodes offer CP as a prize, it is idiotic that people are able to grind down a difficult node to 1 while still not getting this reward rather than 20 iso.


2nd Mod Edit: This thread is slowly evolving, changed title name to reflect content. Staying in General Discussion for now.

OneLastGambit

I strongly recommend everyone upvote this post. It is stupid that you have to continuously get 20iso before the other prizes. Yesterday I had to grind the second punisher node down to 1 and then twice more after that to get those command points. Cost me a couple of health packs to do it.

Come on devs nobody is happy about this surely it's an easy fix.

stryke

I managed to get the cp from the Punisher first time but I needed to get a 2* Daken for the essential node so I went back to the prologue where I remembered that one was available... and it took me 15 bloody clears for the cover to drop with 20 iso after 20 iso. Please, please sort that out.

Punisher5784

The problem with the CP is that it's a 3* 1/4 reward so it's going to take much more grind just to win 1 CP.

I would rather if they made the CP nodes only reward 1 CP 1/1 Reward then I'll happily earn my measly 20 Iso for each completion after because winning a Critical Boost instead of the CP for 3/4 is beyond frustrating.

firethorne

We've been asking for this for over a year. I dare any devs to chime in as to why they won't do this. It would be a show of good will. It is programmatically simple (and if they say otherwise they're either lying or have built a system so convoluted they should be fired on the spot).

Malcrof

Punisher5784 wrote:

The problem with the CP is that it's a 3* 1/4 reward so it's going to take much more grind just to win 1 CP.

I would rather if they made the CP nodes only reward 1 CP 1/1 Reward then I'll happily earn my measly 20 Iso for each completion after because winning a Critical Boost instead of the CP for 3/4 is beyond frustrating.

Got both first try, so i think it is still just as easy as any other node reward.

CaseyJones

That's so frustrating. Grinded two nodes in PVE 10 times together and guess what? No CP, but plenty of 20 ISO. Thanks!

nigelregal

Does anyone know the odds are to win a prize vs 20 ISO?

After the first win the odds of winning a prize must be something like 20-25%

Doc L

This was extremely annoying for me. I don't mind getting it fourth, I just mind having to play it a huge number of extra times before getting that. Though, big shout out to the fact putting CP in is awesome generally - I guess it might be missed in this discussion, but the Devs are giving more sites in-game for CP for many people, even if it is not ideal.

GrimSkald

nigelregal wrote:

Does anyone know the odds are to win a prize vs 20 ISO?

After the first win the odds of winning a prize must be something like 20-25%

I tracked them for a while. I initially thought that the way it worked was you got 20 ISO if you hit the same "prize" as one you already got, but that clearly wasn't the case. Here, have a table!

PVE Tracking

---

Award 20 Iso % of Award
3/4 Rewards Earned ---106---- 109---- 49.3%
2/4 Rewards Earned ---193---- 192---- 50.1%
1/4 Rewards Earned ---267---- 261---- 50.6%
Total

---

566---- 562---- 50.2%
Total Tracked Combats 1128

If my theory was correct, 1/4 should have an award % of around 75%, 2/4 50%, 3/4 25%. It isn't, it's 50% across the board.

So basically, the first time you hit a node, you will get an award. Any time thereafter you hit the node, you have a 50% chance of getting an award, 50% of 20 ISO, until you have gotten all the awards. Simple as that.

Yeah, it seems as if the 20 ISO comes up more often, but it really doesn't. The trouble is you can easily hit a node 8-10 times before you get all the awards, even more if you are unlucky.

Crowl

GrimSkald wrote:

Yeah, it seems as if the 20 ISO comes up more often, but it really doesn't. The trouble is you can easily hit a node 8-10 times before you get all the awards, even more if you are unlucky.

The issue for most people is not that 20 iso comes up more often so much as it comes up at all before you have already got the four proper rewards, particularly since one is on the highest level of the sub and the other is already being gated by being on the 4* essential node.

simonsez

GrimSkald wrote:

So basically, the first time you hit a node, you will get an award. Any time thereafter you hit the node, you have a 50% chance of getting an award, 50% of 20 ISO, until you have gotten all the awards. Simple as that.

Correct. They told us this a while ago, but because it's seems so nonsensical, it didn't compute to a lot of people.

And in case anyone's wondering, this means that on average, it will take you 7 clears to win all the awards. And 5% of the time, it will take you a dozen or more.

udonomefoo

This has bothered me since day 1 of playing the prologue.

I understand the math, but that doesn't make it ok. Explain to me WHY it needs to be 50% instead of 100% until all rewards are gone and then I'll maybe accept that answer. Why should it take, on average, 7 clears to get +2 crit, a std token and maybe 500 iso.

Too many crit boosts would ruin the game economy?

pheregas

I agree that the 20iso reward should be the default winning option once all available prizes have been won. If you don't hit the Command Point on the first try, it may take you grinding down the node to nothing at all right before the event ends, which is going to hurt your overall point totals since you can't be playing nodes for points if you're just grinding for that CP.

I found this especially disheartening during Galactus, where repeated attacks would net you 20 iso after the first win, but the prize counter was sitting at 1 of 8....

simonsez

udonomefoo wrote:

Explain to me WHY it needs to be 50% instead of 100% until all rewards are gone and then I'll maybe accept that answer.

The devs keep telling us that randomness makes the game more fun. Can't you feeeel the enjoyment??

I think they're basing this theory on lab experiments on rhesus monkeys, not from the feedback of 10,000 people who are actually playing the game.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

udonomefoo wrote:

Explain to me WHY it needs to be 50% instead of 100% until all rewards are gone and then I'll maybe accept that answer.

The devs keep telling us that randomness makes the game more fun. Can't you feeeel the enjoyment??

I think they're basing this theory on lab experiments on rhesus monkeys, not from the feedback of 10,000 people who are actually playing the game.

It must be because they do not play a pve where all the rewards offered you already have and comes legendary repeated token or do not spend a huge amount of HP to achieve 1300 and also get a repeated token. Plus there is the enormous time spent.

Crowl

simonsez wrote:

udonomefoo wrote:

Explain to me WHY it needs to be 50% instead of 100% until all rewards are gone and then I'll maybe accept that answer.

The devs keep telling us that randomness makes the game more fun. Can't you feeeel the enjoyment??

I think they're basing this theory on lab experiments on rhesus monkeys, not from the feedback of 10,000 people who are actually playing the game.

If randomness is fun, we would still have that from not knowing which of the 4 rewards we would get.

sc0ville

Crowl wrote:

If randomness is fun, we would still have that from not knowing which of the 4 rewards we would get.

This is exactly my position. The randomness on top of the randomness on top of the randomness starts to suck away a lot of the fun of the thing...

LordXberk

sc0ville wrote:

Crowl wrote:

If randomness is fun, we would still have that from not knowing which of the 4 rewards we would get.

This is exactly my position. The randomness on top of the randomness on top of the randomness starts to suck away a lot of the fun of the thing...

And, it'd be different if all the random rewards were good. Turns out that a few are decent, the CP reward is good, but the 20 ISO is hot garbage.

TxMoose

ok, just logged my passes at the top pve node for the cp. 8 tries. for a specific reward, 8 tries doesn't seem outrageous, especially when the kp node only took 2. what I don't understand is is the 20 iso 6X in a row between the critical boost and the cp. so that is 8 runs at the node and it gave up none of the iso. so, for any of the statisticians out there, what are the odds that with 1/4 rewards earned, you pull the 20 iso 6 times in a row? That means that slot of rewards was pulled 7 times in a row (one for the first, and the same slot for the next 6). like someone mentioned elsewhere, I don't think the game 'cheats' per se, but their 'random' sure seems like its broken.

GrimSkald

simonsez wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

So basically, the first time you hit a node, you will get an award. Any time thereafter you hit the node, you have a 50% chance of getting an award, 50% of 20 ISO, until you have gotten all the awards. Simple as that.

Correct. They told us this a while ago, but because it's seems so nonsensical, it didn't compute to a lot of people.

And in case anyone's wondering, this means that on average, it will take you 7 clears to win all the awards. And 5% of the time, it will take you a dozen or more.

Yeah, in a thread someone, I think it was Ben Grimm, said that so I decided to test it. I enjoy collecting data, it gave me something else to track. I was a bit surprised to find it true, since it feels worse. What was remarkable was that my statistics leveled out to 50/50 really quickly - once I got a significant sample it never wandered off more than 5% off of 50%. Though I will say for a time all three of them favored 20 Iso.

Anyway, my guess is to fix the "20 Iso" issue is a non-trivial coding change and they have other priorities. We don't know how difficult it would be to change - for all we know it could involve a serious dedication of resources.