Who should be next in line for balancing?

Unknown

Bugpop wrote:

No No No

Stop using boosts to illustrate broken powers. Bagman must be perfect because he's the only character that can't one-shot Hulk using boosts.

Fine. All you need is two blue matches out of the gate to stun the entire other team. Same problem, only you allow the other team's weakest or second weakest member to make a match first. You can still stunlock the entire other team before they can actually use a single power, and probably keep their strongest member from ever making a move with a blue match every few turns.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

Bugpop wrote:

No No No

Stop using boosts to illustrate broken powers. Bagman must be perfect because he's the only character that can't one-shot Hulk using boosts.

Fine. All you need is two blue matches out of the gate to stun the entire other team. Same problem, only you allow the other team's weakest or second weakest member to make a match first. You can still stunlock the entire other team before they can actually use a single power, and probably keep their strongest member from ever making a move with a blue match every few turns.

As an avid Spidey user, I don't think this is accurate. You need 12 blue to get a solid team-wide stunlock off the runway, and without boosts, you aren't going to get that without the opponents gathering up some AP and dealing some damage first (often getting an ability off). 95% of boards have 1-2 available blue matches to start, and a 6 AP stunlock doesn't accomplish anything other than putting your web tiles out there too soon to be matched away while you're gathering more blue.

mags1587

walkyourpath wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

Bugpop wrote:

No No No

Stop using boosts to illustrate broken powers. Bagman must be perfect because he's the only character that can't one-shot Hulk using boosts.

Fine. All you need is two blue matches out of the gate to stun the entire other team. Same problem, only you allow the other team's weakest or second weakest member to make a match first. You can still stunlock the entire other team before they can actually use a single power, and probably keep their strongest member from ever making a move with a blue match every few turns.

As an avid Spidey user, I don't think this is accurate. You need 12 blue to get a solid team-wide stunlock off the runway, and without boosts, you aren't going to get that without the opponents gathering up some AP and dealing some damage first (often getting an ability off). 95% of boards have 1-2 available blue matches to start, and a 6 AP stunlock doesn't accomplish anything other than putting your web tiles out there too soon to be matched away while you're gathering more blue.

Exactly. Theoretically it might be true that you can keep a team stunlocked starting with 6ap, but it never works out like that. The blue AP dries up.

Though, yes, you can keep a team from getting off a devastating power with Spidey's stun... but isn't that the point of having stun in the first place? To keep that goon's tile from counting down to 0 or to prevent GSBW from using sniper rifle on your entire team, while you get enough AP to take them out first? Spidey does need adjusting (and IMO, the devs probably have more of an issue with his healing than his stun), but I hope the developers don't take him too far in the other direction.

Unknown

Placing web tiles early is just asking them to get destroyed.

I usually don't place any web tiles until at least one opponent is down, unless the enemy has a devastating ability that must be stopped. The blue tiles do dry up, and more importantly, if all you're doing is matching blue to stun the other team and then they eventually broke out of it, you've accomplished absolutely nothing other than a relatively trivial amount of damage from your blue matches.

Contrary to popular belief, Spiderman based team is usually all offense (minus Spiderman himself), because it is absolutely crucial to knock out one guy early. Sometimes I'll risk a Berserker Rage without a stun lock just to get rid of one guy quickly, because you really need to kill a guy first before you can reliably stun lock.

Unknown

When I carry spiderman, unless I need a stun someone during the course of the battle, I don't use him until I'm nearly done. I use up the blue and yellow AP to heal, and do the finishing move.

Yes. it means I eat some nasty moves. I don't die and Spiderman can heal.

MarcusGraves

Phantron wrote:

Placing web tiles early is just asking them to get destroyed.

I usually don't place any web tiles until at least one opponent is down, unless the enemy has a devastating ability that must be stopped. The blue tiles do dry up, and more importantly, if all you're doing is matching blue to stun the other team and then they eventually broke out of it, you've accomplished absolutely nothing other than a relatively trivial amount of damage from your blue matches.

but we all know theres no way it will stay a 2 cost power, its going to be slowed down. if they raise the base cost to 8 blue AP then it will be 4 AP when maxed out so it will force him to make at least two matches before he can use it, and three matches will let him use it two times. 4 cost at max would be the lowest possible cost we could hope for because they are obviously killing off all the 2 and 3 cost powers, if this is the only change they make people won't be **** into respec'ing him and they won't have to shift the 3/5/5 build that's so popular.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

Bugpop wrote:

No No No

Stop using boosts to illustrate broken powers. Bagman must be perfect because he's the only character that can't one-shot Hulk using boosts.

Fine. All you need is two blue matches out of the gate to stun the entire other team. Same problem, only you allow the other team's weakest or second weakest member to make a match first. You can still stunlock the entire other team before they can actually use a single power, and probably keep their strongest member from ever making a move with a blue match every few turns.

I have level 120 spidey (was 115 until recently). I don't use boosts even against the level 230/230/230 teams in dynamicaly scaled pve events. I'll take spidey along to stun, but If I have to stun-lock the team out of the gate I'm not going to have fun. I stun dangerous enemies until I have to stun lock the team, but by then I usually have AP to finish the team.

Unknown

walkyourpath wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

Bugpop wrote:

No No No

Stop using boosts to illustrate broken powers. Bagman must be perfect because he's the only character that can't one-shot Hulk using boosts.

Fine. All you need is two blue matches out of the gate to stun the entire other team. Same problem, only you allow the other team's weakest or second weakest member to make a match first. You can still stunlock the entire other team before they can actually use a single power, and probably keep their strongest member from ever making a move with a blue match every few turns.

As an avid Spidey user, I don't think this is accurate. You need 12 blue to get a solid team-wide stunlock off the runway, and without boosts, you aren't going to get that without the opponents gathering up some AP and dealing some damage first (often getting an ability off). 95% of boards have 1-2 available blue matches to start, and a 6 AP stunlock doesn't accomplish anything other than putting your web tiles out there too soon to be matched away while you're gathering more blue.

i find that 9 blue and a plan to get the next 6 blue on the board is sufficient

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

It seems like this thread has a lot of people who are of the "I heard Spiderman is ovepowered". Yes you heard correctly, but he's not overpowered for the imagined reasons.

Spiderman is always on a team with extremely good offense, because the strategy of a Spiderman team revolves around killing at least one person very fast, and Spiderman does absolutely no offense on his own, so it's up to the other two guys to do the job. Even with maxed blue, it's unrealistic to expect to stun the entire team of 3 people, so you got to get it down to 2 guys and preferably one. You don't necessarily have to be collecting blue early on (though certainly you wouldn't pass up good blue matches) because you're trying to collect offense tiles. Spider-sense is pretty much useless because usually you won't be throwing up any web tiles until one guy is down and the base protection value is decent but hardly game breaking. His heal is also useless in the context of the game because once it can heal enough, it means you got enough web tiles up there to actually stunlock the opposing team so you no longer need the heal in the context of this game. Sure, it'd be very useful for the next game to start at 100% health but you certainly don't need it this game.

One of the oddities about Spiderman is that he becomes more overpowered when the other side also has a Spiderman, because that means any blue you missed becomes web tiles that you can use later, which accelerates your stuns. Yes they might be able to put up a good Spider-sense tile but so can you, and it doesn't matter how strong that protect tile is when the enemy put up 4 web tiles for you so that you can stunlock their whole team with your 6 blue for 5 turns.

Spiderman's broken due to his longevitiy, but he actually doesn't contribute much toward actually winning the game. Any PvP game you could win with Spiderman, you most likely can win even quicker by replacing him with any decent character, though of course your team will be less ready to go the next game compared to if you had Spiderman.

I wanted to comment on this. This is right is every way. I've been trying not to use spider man but use him only when it's necessary, I've been able to get a feel for when to use him defensively and offensively. I hate how I've developed the habit of avoiding web tile matching because I want my 5-turn stun. What happened when I relied on spider man is that my AP pool was huge, nearly a dozen web tiles, and not wanting to match the web tiles and so I didn't use any abilities that might cause me to lose the tiles.

I decided to start playing. Spider Man is my best friend and my worst enemy. I enjoy MPQ more when I don't rely on him. When I use him tactically, rather than defensively do I get quick wins. If it takes me 20 min to win a fight, I just wasted my time.

Unknown

I love/hate Spider-Man. In my MMR, everyone has a lvl 100+ Spider-Man, and fights drag. If wolverine and Thor were fun balanced because of their frequency, then he needs it just as bad. At the end of daredevil tourney, I had to skip 20 times to even find a match without him. The only fight I lost that tourney was against a spidey 2ap blue and high lvl punisher combo. Which was fine because high lvl punisher is a beast. But I didn't want to see spidey again. Bottom line is he needs adjustment to decrease his use. I don't care how, just remove the 2ap stun. Honestly I dodge him more in the end than anyone else.

over_clocked

MarcusGraves wrote:

but we all know theres no way it will stay a 2 cost power, its going to be slowed down. if they raise the base cost to 8 blue AP then it will be 4 AP when maxed out so it will force him to make at least two matches before he can use it, and three matches will let him use it two times. 4 cost at max would be the lowest possible cost we could hope for because they are obviously killing off all the 2 and 3 cost powers, if this is the only change they make people won't be **** into respec'ing him and they won't have to shift the 3/5/5 build that's so popular.

4 blue would be perfect on max level, heck, I don't mind 5-6 if there are benefits besides, because otherwise cStorm, mBW, anyone else's stun is better, since they don't need to place special tiles. I have been using Spidey with 4 blue AP stun for an eternity and surely not finding him OP, because I have to run an AP generator/stealer along and a tank/damager to absorb a nasty non-AoE hit and take enemies down faster.

klingsor wrote:

I love/hate Spider-Man. In my MMR, everyone has a lvl 100+ Spider-Man, and fights drag. If wolverine and Thor were fun balanced because of their frequency, then he needs it just as bad. At the end of daredevil tourney, I had to skip 20 times to even find a match without him. The only fight I lost that tourney was against a spidey 2ap blue and high lvl punisher combo. Which was fine because high lvl punisher is a beast. But I didn't want to see spidey again. Bottom line is he needs adjustment to decrease his use. I don't care how, just remove the 2ap stun. Honestly I dodge him more in the end than anyone else.

Never find even 2AP Spidey a problem, my oBW reduces enemy stun ability a lot. Yes it drags out, but only a bit, it's not like the AI can stun half as effectively as you. Or bring your own Spidey and add enemy webs to your own arsenal. If anything it only makes me sad to kill enemy Spidey first because it's my favorite character in any comic universe. It's exactly Punisher and other high damage/health chars that are a deterrent.

Unknown

locked wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

but we all know theres no way it will stay a 2 cost power, its going to be slowed down. if they raise the base cost to 8 blue AP then it will be 4 AP when maxed out so it will force him to make at least two matches before he can use it, and three matches will let him use it two times. 4 cost at max would be the lowest possible cost we could hope for because they are obviously killing off all the 2 and 3 cost powers, if this is the only change they make people won't be **** into respec'ing him and they won't have to shift the 3/5/5 build that's so popular.

4 blue would be perfect on max level, heck, I don't mind 5-6 if there are benefits besides, because otherwise cStorm, mBW, anyone else's stun is better, since they don't need to place special tiles. I have been using Spidey with 4 blue AP stun for an eternity and surely not finding him OP, because I have to run an AP generator/stealer along and a tank/damager to absorb a nasty non-AoE hit and take enemies down faster.

klingsor wrote:

I love/hate Spider-Man. In my MMR, everyone has a lvl 100+ Spider-Man, and fights drag. If wolverine and Thor were fun balanced because of their frequency, then he needs it just as bad. At the end of daredevil tourney, I had to skip 20 times to even find a match without him. The only fight I lost that tourney was against a spidey 2ap blue and high lvl punisher combo. Which was fine because high lvl punisher is a beast. But I didn't want to see spidey again. Bottom line is he needs adjustment to decrease his use. I don't care how, just remove the 2ap stun. Honestly I dodge him more in the end than anyone else.

Never find even 2AP Spidey a problem, my oBW reduces enemy stun ability a lot. Yes it drags out, but only a bit, it's not like the AI can stun half as effectively as you. Or bring your own Spidey and add enemy webs to your own arsenal. If anything it only makes me sad to kill enemy Spidey first because it's my favorite character in any comic universe. It's exactly Punisher and other high damage/health chars that are a deterrent.

It's not about facing Spidey with the AI controlling it. It's about a 5 blue Spidey plus a heavy hitter allows a player to beat a team that is much higher level.

Clintman

klingsor wrote:

I love/hate Spider-Man. In my MMR, everyone has a lvl 100+ Spider-Man, and fights drag. If wolverine and Thor were fun balanced because of their frequency, then he needs it just as bad. At the end of daredevil tourney, I had to skip 20 times to even find a match without him. The only fight I lost that tourney was against a spidey 2ap blue and high lvl punisher combo. Which was fine because high lvl punisher is a beast. But I didn't want to see spidey again. Bottom line is he needs adjustment to decrease his use. I don't care how, just remove the 2ap stun. Honestly I dodge him more in the end than anyone else.

you should look for teams with Spiderman, he is easy to kill and does not use his abilities effectively. Most of the time having one character stunned at a time is annoying and you can pretty much ignore him, if the webs start to stack up, just kill him.

Spidey and OBW are dangerous if left unchecked, if you manage them they are easy to destroy.

Unknown

Spiderman versus Spiderman fights drag on for a while because the AI always stuns right away which actually gets you strong Spider-sense tiles and they also try to match purple a decent amount. Assuming the other team doesn't have another purple power (the only high end team this would make sense is Spiderman + Magneto, because Spiderman + OBW means your team has only one guy who can do damage), all this does is delay the game because purple/blue doesn't convert to damage readily if your team already has Spiderman, but it sure will drag out the match much longer. In fact a lot of the time you don't even care if the opposing Spiderman healed because you're not making a move until you have your offensive tiles + blues, so it's actually okay if they healed, except of course this drags an already long game even longer. I've had some epic borefests where both side have 300+ of protect strength up and just takes turn hitting each other for 1 damage.

Unknown

Clint wrote:

klingsor wrote:

I love/hate Spider-Man. In my MMR, everyone has a lvl 100+ Spider-Man, and fights drag. If wolverine and Thor were fun balanced because of their frequency, then he needs it just as bad. At the end of daredevil tourney, I had to skip 20 times to even find a match without him. The only fight I lost that tourney was against a spidey 2ap blue and high lvl punisher combo. Which was fine because high lvl punisher is a beast. But I didn't want to see spidey again. Bottom line is he needs adjustment to decrease his use. I don't care how, just remove the 2ap stun. Honestly I dodge him more in the end than anyone else.

you should look for teams with Spiderman, he is easy to kill and does not use his abilities effectively. Most of the time having one character stunned at a time is annoying and you can pretty much ignore him, if the webs start to stack up, just kill him.

Spidey and OBW are dangerous if left unchecked, if you manage them they are easy to destroy.

It's not about Spidey facing you while you are on offense. The AI is stupid. It's about a low level team that has Spidey or even a high level team with Spidey being able to beat anyone at will with almost not repercussion.

Unknown

saints2death wrote:

Clint wrote:

klingsor wrote:

I love/hate Spider-Man. In my MMR, everyone has a lvl 100+ Spider-Man, and fights drag. If wolverine and Thor were fun balanced because of their frequency, then he needs it just as bad. At the end of daredevil tourney, I had to skip 20 times to even find a match without him. The only fight I lost that tourney was against a spidey 2ap blue and high lvl punisher combo. Which was fine because high lvl punisher is a beast. But I didn't want to see spidey again. Bottom line is he needs adjustment to decrease his use. I don't care how, just remove the 2ap stun. Honestly I dodge him more in the end than anyone else.

you should look for teams with Spiderman, he is easy to kill and does not use his abilities effectively. Most of the time having one character stunned at a time is annoying and you can pretty much ignore him, if the webs start to stack up, just kill him.

Spidey and OBW are dangerous if left unchecked, if you manage them they are easy to destroy.

It's not about Spidey facing you while you are on offense. The AI is stupid. It's about a low level team that has Spidey or even a high level team with Spidey being able to beat anyone at will with almost not repercussion.

Apparently a lot of people must think this is a single player game since the game leaves out the gruesome details when your team is mercilessly slaughtered by several of the overpowered characters.

Clintman

Better than having to watch my overpowered characters mercilessly slaughtered by under leveled underpowered teams.

Unknown

I don't get why this topic is still going? If you do, please explain.

Unknown

Unity wrote:

I don't get why this topic is still going? If you do, please explain.

This thread is a thread I made because there were tons of different balancing threads about single characters. I created a thread for generalized conversation about the subject to decrease amounts of threads being created about it. The conversation had moved from iron man to OBW to iron man to doom to rags to spidey and everywhere inbetween. There have been a lot less other threads popping up and everything has been going as intended.

That's why the topic is continuing. It's 1 of those topics that when any character is messed up now or in future we have a platform to discuss it. Keeps things tidy.

Unknown

saints2death wrote:

It's not about Spidey facing you while you are on offense. The AI is stupid. It's about a low level team that has Spidey or even a high level team with Spidey being able to beat anyone at will with almost not repercussion.

Actually I notices Spidey as the one (and only) character the AI plays well. And got several wipe-outs to him, especially early before I learned to skip him or summon a really concentrated attack with proper counter-team and possible boosts.

I recall game there all webs and shields were in unreachable corners, Spidey was beaten from 3500 to 500 but from then on only got 1 pts from the 1/3 of team not currently stunned. And of course the AI got a ton of blue from cascade on top.

But with all that I think all the nerfing due is to set minimum cost of 4 on the blue.