**** X-23 (All New Wolverine) ****

Unknown

3-5-5 pve and 5-5-3 pvp. Purple may be useful in PVE with Daken and Patch. In pvp Purple is practically useless since the cost is very high as well as being very time consuming the match. The high cure in addition to irritate the opponent will allow more time for you to match the trap. 8 green with 4k damage reminds me of X-Force Wolverine in its golden age.

IceIX

Clarified Holding Back and Berserker Fury in the OP. Berserker Fury adds the Strike tiles on top of the damage, so you get both once Holding Back transforms.

udonomefoo

Sorry if this has been answered, I just scanned all the pages for a red response, but does she have to actually make the match to trigger the healing or is that also just ambiguous wording

IceIX

udonomefoo wrote:

Sorry if this has been answered, I just scanned all the pages for a red response, but does she have to actually make the match to trigger the healing or is that also just ambiguous wording

It has to be X-23 that makes the match. If Hulkbuster is tanking Red, Laura won't heal on Red matches.

sc0ville

While you're clarifying, in both scenarios assume max level, 5 covers in holding back.

Scenario 1
First cast of "Holding Back" with 8 green ap, no Red ap.
Result: attack opponent for 4561 damage ability remains "Holding Back"
Second cast of "Holding Back" with 8 green ap and => 9 red AP
Result: attack opponent for 4561 damage ability turns to "Berserker Fury"
Third cast of (now) "Berserker Fury" (regardless of red ap)
Result: attack opponent for 4561 damage + generate 2, 239 strike tiles

Scenario 2
First cast of "Holding Back" with 8 green ap, no Red ap.
Result: attack opponent for 4561 damage ability remains "Holding Back"
Second cast of "Holding Back" with 8 green ap and => 9 red AP
Result: attack opponent for 4561 damage + generate 2, 239 strike tiles ability turns to "Berserker Fury"
Third cast of (now) "Berserker Fury" (regardless of red ap)
Result: attack opponent for 4561 damage + generate 2, 239 strike tiles

I believe scenario 1 is the correct order of events, I would just like to confirm that if possible.

Sagirkedi93

Quebbster wrote:

eaise wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

Sagirkedi93 wrote:

Okay she is a good and strong charecter. But her powers just like xforce's powers before the nerf. And her heal power is stronger than xforce. I cant understand. Why you nerf the xforce in this stiation.

Because top level PvP at the time was only X-force Wolverine + 4* Thor + featured character. With two characters so ahead of the power curve, there was little to no reason to play anything else.

They were the two dominant characters in PvP. But now that Jeanbuster is the new meta and 5* characters are out they should reverse the nerf on XFW. He'd go back to usable but wouldn't be the strongest in the game

I wouldn't say no to a bit more damage on X-force and a bit more health for Wolverine, but Surgical Strike went from extremely overpowered to acceptable power level, so I don't think it needs to change. It still packs a punch and shakes up the board, it doesn't need to generate and destroy AP.

His black and yellow powers is good but his green is Extremely ridiculus. And He cant crate strike tiles but other Wolverines can. Maybe just a strike tile trick for his green power be good

Crowl

Marc Spector wrote:

notamutant wrote:

It is not too late. Please change the colors, even if you keep the skills exactly the same. There is a serious problem you guys have with thinking you HAVE to use certain colors for certain types of skills, or to match the colors of a characters costume. You don't. This is a game, remember? Players would much prefer more color diversity so that we can have more team mate options. Right now, you are essentially saying that out of like 8 or so new character releases in the past few months, you cannot have 4 of them on the same team (in terms of color team mates).

Agree Agree Agree.
C'mon Demiurge, there's still plenty of time before her release to at least, e.g., switch her green to yellow or something.

Given the colours on her costume they could have picked 3 out of blue, yellow, red and black which gives them plenty of room to do something slightly different.

IceIX

sc0ville wrote:

I believe scenario 1 is the correct order of events, I would just like to confirm that if possible.

Correct, Scenario 1 is what happens.

wirius

The fact that she's miles above XForce is pretty upsetting. I was ok with nerfing Xforce for the health of the game, but now you release a character here who makes XForce look like trash.

Buret0

vinicius18 wrote:

3-5-5 pve and 5-5-3 pvp. Purple may be useful in PVE with Daken and Patch. In pvp Purple is practically useless since the cost is very high as well as being very time consuming the match. The high cure in addition to irritate the opponent will allow more time for you to match the trap. 8 green with 4k damage reminds me of X-Force Wolverine in its golden age.

The damage per AP is huge on purple even without any strike tiles. With strike tiles it is insane. Upwards of 1900 damage per AP if if the enemy matches the purple tile or 1267 damage per AP if you match your own tile (and a decent strike tile). In fact, I would probably be intentionally matching the tile most of the time to ensure that it wasn't destroyed by the enemy in a way other than being matched.

Paired with a boosted Patch/Blade/Daken, you can really see the strike tiles come out quickly. Paired with Switch, you would see a ton of purple AP to use these abilities.

If paired with Patch, a 3/5/5 build would yield the highest damage per AP. Fire off Berserker Rage and then drop two purple trap tiles on the board (assuming that there is still enough basic purple tiles). Match one of them to take out the enemy strike tiles and make yourself another huge black strike tile.

A 5/3/5 build is probably where I would go... the true healing is nice, but I'm more interested in the high damage per AP you get from green and purple.

ErikPeter

Yep, purple is basically DD's ambush in 4* land. Great if you have a passive strike generator. No you can't re-activate it, but 7K damage and a good strike for 6 AP is fantastic. I'm kind of interested to see how strong those powers are at a more attainable level, e.g. 2/1/5 level 170. Anyone know the general increase% in damage for the last 100 levels?

Buret0

Everyone with me would be pretty handy with her build as well.

Unknown

Buret0 wrote:

vinicius18 wrote:

3-5-5 pve and 5-5-3 pvp. Purple may be useful in PVE with Daken and Patch. In pvp Purple is practically useless since the cost is very high as well as being very time consuming the match. The high cure in addition to irritate the opponent will allow more time for you to match the trap. 8 green with 4k damage reminds me of X-Force Wolverine in its golden age.

The damage per AP is huge on purple even without any strike tiles. With strike tiles it is insane. Upwards of 1900 damage per AP if if the enemy matches the purple tile or 1267 damage per AP if you match your own tile (and a decent strike tile). In fact, I would probably be intentionally matching the tile most of the time to ensure that it wasn't destroyed by the enemy in a way other than being matched.

Paired with a boosted Patch/Blade/Daken, you can really see the strike tiles come out quickly. Paired with Switch, you would see a ton of purple AP to use these abilities.

If paired with Patch, a 3/5/5 build would yield the highest damage per AP. Fire off Berserker Rage and then drop two purple trap tiles on the board (assuming that there is still enough basic purple tiles). Match one of them to take out the enemy strike tiles and make yourself another huge black strike tile.

A 5/3/5 build is probably where I would go... the true healing is nice, but I'm more interested in the high damage per AP you get from green and purple.

I respect your opinion but for me even if the purple 100k would be ****. It delayed to maximize my Daredevil just by Ambush. Furthermore, Strikes tiles are easily removed by Elektra. Another fact is that need luck and time to be able to match the trap. I know you're an experienced player but I prefer the 5-5-3.

dkffiv

I think she has a lot of PvE potential and maybe boosted PvP. Came up with a crazy team of rejects and seeing how it rolls now.

Green is always Holding Back on first cast (generates no strike tiles), it transforms after casting it while you have the red ap reserves (meaning you don't get strike tiles out of it until at least 16 green AP). I'll update with more insight after some playthrough.

fmftint

IceIX wrote:

Clarified Holding Back and Berserker Fury in the OP. Berserker Fury adds the Strike tiles on top of the damage, so you get both once Holding Back transforms.

Thanks for cleaning up the wording in the description.

ClydeFrog76

She just seems terrible to me. Nothing about the skills sound fun to play.

dkffiv

Early thoughts:

She's very slow and not viable in PvP because of this. In her current form she isn't really viable in PvE either, its frustrating how incompetent the designers are. They took an interesting concept but made it unusable because of how little they understand their own game / numbers.

Her green is okay but the red requirement should be removed. 8 AP for damage then 8 AP after for damage + strike tiles is slow enough, there were some matches were I ended up with 15+ green but no red so I had to hold off on casting. The requirements themselves are pretty stupid, it should just be 8 AP for damage + strike tiles. Damage is inline with prenerf Xforce (which isn't even that wild in the new 4* world) and instead of a board shake you get strike tiles. I'd drop the damage by 10-20% and reduce strike tile strength by maybe 50% but have it be Berserker Fury all the time.

Red healing is mediocre but I guess that's fair (if the tweaks I mention are implemented). The problem is she needs to match (and thus be out front) which means she can't take a breather and heal. Before PvE scaling got out of control I used to alternate having Daken and Patch out front, letting them heal for 2 turns worth between hits. When she starts getting low its very hard for her to catch up.

Purple is way overpriced and its not really possible to reduce the cost on a regular team. On her own she needs 16+ green AP and 9+ red before she can reduce the cost to 10. You could throw out Daken or Blade to spam strike tiles but those 2 aren't viable in PvP nor are they viable for 395 node PvE. She doesn't pair well with PX due to color coverage so don't count on strike tiles for him and if you're playing with OML then it doesn't matter who your second or third characters are. Even when you do get purple off it faces DD's red's problem - 80% of the time it gets buried in a corner and is never matched the entire game. Purple should be 9 or 10 AP and only reduced in cost by friendly black strike tiles (which only she and potentially Professor X / Bullseye can produce outside of Loki trickery or something).

Edit: After some more thought I've got more reasons why purple sucks. The biggest problem is that it puts a trap on purple. Its an expensive move and will take 3-4 purple matches to gather enough AP, by then there shouldn't be much purple left on the board other than loner tiles in the corners. By the time there's an available 3 match its probably 3 good locations to 3-5 bad ones giving a greater than 50% chance a 10-12 AP move is going to whiff. The other problem is that she is hard countered by 2* Bullseye (bad for PvE) and Dr. Doom.

So if purple sucks, what's the next best color? Normally I'd go toward her passive color but red is terrible due to Daken/Blade. Black is bad too, especially in mirrors so I'd either lean toward yellow or green. Green gives you a color that you have incentive to match (but may be few on the board because you're going after them) whereas yellow you can ignore and match if you feel like triggering it yourself. In the PvE matches against Bullseye I've only had the trap go off maybe 20% of the time.

Buret0

vinicius18 wrote:

I respect your opinion but for me even if the purple 100k would be ****. It delayed to maximize my Daredevil just by Ambush. Furthermore, Strikes tiles are easily removed by Elektra. Another fact is that need luck and time to be able to match the trap. I know you're an experienced player but I prefer the 5-5-3.

Worst case scenario you are doing 7602 damage and getting a 449 strike tile for 12 purple AP. That's still 633.5 damage per AP and an extra 449 damage going forward.

Hulkbuster or OML are the obvious high level choices for her because of rainbowing the actives. When boosted, there are quite a few decent options at 3* to boost her. It means that she's going to need friends to help her maximize her purple, but there's certainly good team choices available for her.

Her green maxes out at 570 damage per AP and is mostly going to be used to finish off weak opponents.

The red healing is going to be useful on O for healthpack reductions, but totally neuters either her green or or purple damage output. This is fine if you plan on using purple or green for someone else, but that seems to put a further limitation on who she is useful with. It also requires her to tank the colors, which is really only useful for the people with the ISO to max her out early. The minimum requirement of 16 green AP and 9 red AP to activate the strike tiles means that you are unlikely to see green at optimum. Strike tiles late in the match aren't as useful as strike tiles early in the match.

Edit:

And did you just suggest that Electra would be a good way to reduce strike tiles? If you tried to use Electra to reduce the number of strike tiles that I had, you would be double-crossing yourself.

Unknown

Buret0 wrote:

vinicius18 wrote:

I respect your opinion but for me even if the purple 100k would be ****. It delayed to maximize my Daredevil just by Ambush. Furthermore, Strikes tiles are easily removed by Elektra. Another fact is that need luck and time to be able to match the trap. I know you're an experienced player but I prefer the 5-5-3.

Worst case scenario you are doing 7602 damage and getting a 449 strike tile for 12 purple AP. That's still 633.5 damage per AP and an extra 449 damage going forward.

Hulkbuster or OML are the obvious high level choices for her because of rainbowing the actives. When boosted, there are quite a few decent options at 3* to boost her. It means that she's going to need friends to help her maximize her purple, but there's certainly good team choices available for her.

Her green maxes out at 570 damage per AP and is mostly going to be used to finish off weak opponents.

The red healing is going to be useful on O for healthpack reductions, but totally neuters either her green or or purple damage output. This is fine if you plan on using purple or green for someone else, but that seems to put a further limitation on who she is useful with. It also requires her to tank the colors, which is really only useful for the people with the ISO to max her out early. The minimum requirement of 16 green AP and 9 red AP to activate the strike tiles means that you are unlikely to see green at optimum. Strike tiles late in the match aren't as useful as strike tiles early in the match.

Edit:

And did you just suggest that Electra would be a good way to reduce strike tiles? If you tried to use Electra to reduce the number of strike tiles that I had, you would be double-crossing yourself.

I hate slow characters. They formulated a contradictory character than it is because it has always been quite fast. She can do a lot of damage in 5-5-3 with Ant-Man and Elektra. About Hulkbuster and OML, it has no level to play next to them because I consider it a 3 *. If it were an Age of Apocalypse or X-Force would make sense she fight alongside the two. In the All New Wolverines ideal for she is fighting alongside Patch and Daken, which are the same level as her, 3 *. About Elektra, beyond disarm traps she will steal their high Strikes tiles. With Elektra and Ant-Man can choose which best shot during the match.

Buret0

vinicius18 wrote:

I hate slow characters. They formulated a contradictory character than it is because it has always been quite fast. She can do a lot of damage in 5-5-3 with Ant-Man and Elektra. About Hulkbuster and OML, it has no level to play next to them because I consider it a 3 *. If it were an Age of Apocalypse or X-Force would make sense she fight alongside the two. In the All New Wolverines ideal for she is fighting alongside Patch and Daken, which are the same level as her, 3 *. About Elektra, beyond disarm traps she will steal their high Strikes tiles. With Elektra and Ant-Man can choose which best shot during the match.

1) You don't see a lot of Electras in the game.
2) She will steal and gift strike tiles, giving you a cheaper purple.
3) She needs purple to steal your tiles, which means matching your trap tile.

This isn't a slow character. 8/P/6 or 8/P/12 isn't slow. And with 14,000 health and a bit of true healing, she's going to stick around through AoE attacks. She's much stronger than you give credit.