4* DDQ, a debate

whoami24601

smkspy wrote:

whoami24601 wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

I don't think 4* DDQ will be changed much, because it does serve more or less the same purpose as 3* DDQ: to help people with 8-10+ covers in a certain character get those final covers (although with random pulls it does a much crummier job at that than 3* DDQ). It's never going to be a tool for starting 3-4* transitioners to build their 4* roster.

That being said, the game really does need a tool for beginning 3-4* transitioners to build their 4* roster. There are simply too many 4*s out there now for the 1000 prog reward and the random egendary tokens to be sufficient. The devs have hinted at this in the past, and I think the time has come for it to be implemented.

There seems to be a basic disconnect between your two paragraphs. (And maybe this has been addressed, I didn't keep reading much further but will do so now.)

DDQ for 3* characters starts working with a single cover, not 8-10 as you say. You can win with the prior star level in order to advance to that star level. 2* teams and a single cover 3* can defeat the 3* DDQ in order to build a 3* roster and transition from 2* to 3*.

You yourself say that this is lacking for the 3* to 4* transition. The reason it is lacking is because the 4* DDQ is in no way serving the purpose as the current 3* DDQ is. The 4* DDQ does what you say, in that it rewards well-covered 4*, although you don't always need as many as 8-10 covers. Currently 4* DDQ enables a 4* to 5* transition more than anything else, while leaving people with well established 3* rosters no transition method beyond 1000 in PvP which you yourself say is insufficient.


It really reads as if you are arguing that 4* DDQ needs to be fixed to match 3* DDQ, while stating the opposite.

Yeah, to get my new 3 star cover every day, I just need the required character,but use a team without that character to win their cover. DDQ 4 star should be something similar. Make us use the 4 star required, and build a 3 star team around it. Just like third times the charm except we can only use 3 stars and not our 2s or 1s.

Add two more enemies if it needs to be harder, but I've a couple of 4 stars with a few covers and cannot come close to winning as it stands now. Yet, I'm told not to open up LT tokens, cause if I get 5 I must sell it off as not to destroy my roster scale, yet a simple way to guarantee development of the four stars that I already is scoffed at.

Exactly. I have 17 maxed 3*. Only Iron Fist and Vision are at or under level 100 and can't go higher, and only five 3* aren't cover maxed. There are a couple who need an adjusted cover to be perfect, and they're all sitting at either 120 or 140. I'm bringing those guys up to max slowly but surely anyway.

I have a 5/5/3 @200 XForce and won that match handily.
I have a 4/3/4 @168 Fury, and won that match.
I have a 2/2/1 @100 IW, and scraped out a win in that match.
I have a 5/5/3 @100 Dino, and I'll level him for his DDQ and PvP as soon as I see those events and see how much I want to up him.
I have one 4* with 5 covers (HB 1/2/2, couldn't win), two with 4 covers (Thor 2/1/1, couldn't win, and Elektra 1/0/3), one with 3 covers (Star-Lord 1/1/1), two with 2 covers (Ant-Man 1/0/1 and Kingpin 1/1/0), and everybody else but Thing with a single cover.

I have 70 slots because I've short-changed my 1-2* roster. I have a blue Silver Surfer from one of those three Legendaries and have no complaints about that. But realistically, I am done with the 3* transition and should be working on the 4* transition. I normally finish T100 or better in PVE, and while I know I don't hit refreshes perfectly, I've not come close to that LT. I can hit 1000 in PvP if it's a Sunday finish and I have time that weekend, but with a wife and infant that's no guarantee. I've even hit 1300 before, when I had HP to burn and no kid. My roster can handle it, but I can't put that kind of time into this every day to reach arbitrary benchmarks. I've been playing almost 600 days in a casual alliance made up of folks from another forum site I frequent.

So if 4* DDQ isn't for me--and it isn't, I'm only good for 4 in a rotation--then what is? Do I stagnate unless I put additional hours into the game? If that's the only options for advancement, why should I bother? It changes the dynamic from a game I play casually (but still let's be honest, it's several hours daily) to one where I need to schedule around refreshed to hit PvE benchmarks and around shields to his PvP benchmarks. There's simply no alternative to transition between those two options, which is in stark contrast to the player-friendly format of 3* DDQ.

smkspy

My 4 and 3 are nowhere near yours, but yeah, given the transition from 2 star seems less like just a 3 star transition but a more 3/4 that are just about thrown together equally. Having a four star match where anyone with a single cover of that character can compete seems fair. Reward the player with a cover for that character just like the 3 star so they can actually develop their four stars too, and hoard LT tokens so it doesn't look like crying when we get a 5 star that will scale us up too much.

Unknown

I also am seeing the same issue most people are seeing here too. My big issue is I currently have 18 or 19 4* characters. Most are 5 covers or less w/ W X-force and IW maxed and fury at 250. Ok I can win those three but every 5 days for the next 2 months I might as well ignore the event. Since I can't just get a cover a month in PvP for each anymore due to he vast amount of 4* characters diluting the pull pool , maxing a 4* seems tedious . The 2* token rate increase is helping, but it still seems like I'm always about 5 lucky pulls away before I can ramp another 4* into roster playability. I would at least like to be able to use team ups since the DPD enemy can.

Unknown

This OP and the bulk of this thread is working from the flawed assumption that there's something wrong with the current 4* DPDQ and it needs to be fixed. There isn't, and it doesn't.

Please keep in mind when I say this, that I'm speaking from the point of someone with maxed Jean, HB, XFW, Goddess, fully or mostly covered (not always correctly specced), Elektra, Baglady, Fury, Dino, Kingpin, ProfX, Carnage, good covers on a couple others.
I do not expect to win every 4* DPDQ.
I have a 3 covered Thing. He only has 2 colors (and with one being yellow, and useless in 1v1, he's really just got two green covers). I grabbed one cover thanks to my alliance in his release. Picked up a couple others from 1k prizes along the way. He's abysmally undercovered. I do not expect to win when his time comes. I have a handful of covers on some other new ones (XDP, Faptain, 3-4 Creepsicle, MrF), and I don't think I'll always be winning those either. If I do, I expect it to be a bit lucky. It's one fight for a reward that elsewhere in the game takes:
PVE: 3 clears each day for the length of an event (so usually 27 nodes a day).
PVP: 1300 in a single 60 hour event (good timing, a bit of shielding, a bit of luck if you don't have a great 4* roster yet).

If I'm approaching this as a player who is clearly established in the 4* transition (or some might argue has transitioned already) and I feel I shouldn't be winning every fight... why are there people way below me in play time/roster strength who are essentially looking for a handout?

And for those bemoaning not being able to get the Legendary in the full season when it comes up (yes, Anniversary season is a different story, because of the shorter season)...
You will need to get 850 per each of the 10 events, and 1500 in SIM to hit 10k for the Legendary. If you can't do that, why are you expecting to get a legendary from one fight every five days?

Unknown

smkspy wrote:

whoami24601 wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

I don't think 4* DDQ will be changed much, because it does serve more or less the same purpose as 3* DDQ: to help people with 8-10+ covers in a certain character get those final covers (although with random pulls it does a much crummier job at that than 3* DDQ). It's never going to be a tool for starting 3-4* transitioners to build their 4* roster.

That being said, the game really does need a tool for beginning 3-4* transitioners to build their 4* roster. There are simply too many 4*s out there now for the 1000 prog reward and the random egendary tokens to be sufficient. The devs have hinted at this in the past, and I think the time has come for it to be implemented.

There seems to be a basic disconnect between your two paragraphs. (And maybe this has been addressed, I didn't keep reading much further but will do so now.)

DDQ for 3* characters starts working with a single cover, not 8-10 as you say. You can win with the prior star level in order to advance to that star level. 2* teams and a single cover 3* can defeat the 3* DDQ in order to build a 3* roster and transition from 2* to 3*.

You yourself say that this is lacking for the 3* to 4* transition. The reason it is lacking is because the 4* DDQ is in no way serving the purpose as the current 3* DDQ is. The 4* DDQ does what you say, in that it rewards well-covered 4*, although you don't always need as many as 8-10 covers. Currently 4* DDQ enables a 4* to 5* transition more than anything else, while leaving people with well established 3* rosters no transition method beyond 1000 in PvP which you yourself say is insufficient.


It really reads as if you are arguing that 4* DDQ needs to be fixed to match 3* DDQ, while stating the opposite.

Yeah, to get my new 3 star cover every day, I just need the required character,but use a team without that character to win their cover. DDQ 4 star should be something similar. Make us use the 4 star required, and build a 3 star team around it. Just like third times the charm except we can only use 3 stars and not our 2s or 1s.

Add two more enemies if it needs to be harder, but I've a couple of 4 stars with a few covers and cannot come close to winning as it stands now. Yet, I'm told not to open up LT tokens, cause if I get 5 I must sell it off as not to destroy my roster scale, yet a simple way to guarantee development of the four stars that I already is scoffed at.

That would have been the painfully obvious choice and thematically/mechanically solid as already proven out by many months of glowing feedback regarding DDQ in general and the BE in particular.

As for playing, winning, and then actually not opening up tokens? Yeah, that's a great "solution."

You need 4*s for essentials (or PvP these days) to meaningfully compete and progress to earn more 4*s. 4*s come from tokens, but you shouldn't open them IN CASE you "unfortunately" get a 5*? That is a perfectly crafted system for meaningful progression right there…

[goes back to banging head against wall…]

DBC

PeterGibbons316

whoami24601 wrote:

Exactly. I have 17 maxed 3*. Only Iron Fist and Vision are at or under level 100 and can't go higher, and only five 3* aren't cover maxed. There are a couple who need an adjusted cover to be perfect, and they're all sitting at either 120 or 140. I'm bringing those guys up to max slowly but surely anyway.

I have a 5/5/3 @200 XForce and won that match handily.
I have a 4/3/4 @168 Fury, and won that match.
I have a 2/2/1 @100 IW, and scraped out a win in that match.
I have a 5/5/3 @100 Dino, and I'll level him for his DDQ and PvP as soon as I see those events and see how much I want to up him.
I have one 4* with 5 covers (HB 1/2/2, couldn't win), two with 4 covers (Thor 2/1/1, couldn't win, and Elektra 1/0/3), one with 3 covers (Star-Lord 1/1/1), two with 2 covers (Ant-Man 1/0/1 and Kingpin 1/1/0), and everybody else but Thing with a single cover.

I have 70 slots because I've short-changed my 1-2* roster. I have a blue Silver Surfer from one of those three Legendaries and have no complaints about that. But realistically, I am done with the 3* transition and should be working on the 4* transition. I normally finish T100 or better in PVE, and while I know I don't hit refreshes perfectly, I've not come close to that LT. I can hit 1000 in PvP if it's a Sunday finish and I have time that weekend, but with a wife and infant that's no guarantee. I've even hit 1300 before, when I had HP to burn and no kid. My roster can handle it, but I can't put that kind of time into this every day to reach arbitrary benchmarks. I've been playing almost 600 days in a casual alliance made up of folks from another forum site I frequent.

So if 4* DDQ isn't for me--and it isn't, I'm only good for 4 in a rotation--then what is? Do I stagnate unless I put additional hours into the game? If that's the only options for advancement, why should I bother? It changes the dynamic from a game I play casually (but still let's be honest, it's several hours daily) to one where I need to schedule around refreshed to hit PvE benchmarks and around shields to his PvP benchmarks. There's simply no alternative to transition between those two options, which is in stark contrast to the player-friendly format of 3* DDQ.

It is for you, and you are taking advantage of it. You pulled 3 of the 6 LTs so far. 4* DDQ "being for you" doesn't mean that you can beat it every single time. Just like the 3* DDQ is still for people without all the 3* characters. I'm only a little further than you with 270/220/200/200/166/112 being my 4* levels (5 of those 6 have already shown up in DDQ) and all others being 70. I don't anticipate being able to finish most of the remaining 4* DDQ nodes, but I still feel like this mode is "for me" and players with similar rosters to mine.

smkspy

They should just move all 4 stars and 5s to LT. Take us lower players out of the equation then we would be more likely to hoard our LTS until we're ready. Problem with that is we'll be in same situation that occurred with 3 stars where there will be 40 4 stars so the 4ddq level will have to be retooled anyway.

Then they'll add a 5 star level and the cycle continues.

cyineedsn

I think we're just not at critical mass yet. There's...20-ish 4*s (?), so it's still feasible to slowly progress and covers your 4*s through PVP and the various other avenues for leg tokens over the course of 4-6 months or so, and you'll be able to beat 4* DDQ somewhat reliably.

I think once we get to 30+ 4*s (a few months?) the pool will be sufficiently diluted enough that covering any single character with the normal free to play methods will slow to a crawl, and they'll introduce more ways to get 4*s covers. In fact I think that's probably their plan.

whoami24601

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

whoami24601 wrote:

Exactly. I have 17 maxed 3*. Only Iron Fist and Vision are at or under level 100 and can't go higher, and only five 3* aren't cover maxed. There are a couple who need an adjusted cover to be perfect, and they're all sitting at either 120 or 140. I'm bringing those guys up to max slowly but surely anyway.

I have a 5/5/3 @200 XForce and won that match handily.
I have a 4/3/4 @168 Fury, and won that match.
I have a 2/2/1 @100 IW, and scraped out a win in that match.
I have a 5/5/3 @100 Dino, and I'll level him for his DDQ and PvP as soon as I see those events and see how much I want to up him.
I have one 4* with 5 covers (HB 1/2/2, couldn't win), two with 4 covers (Thor 2/1/1, couldn't win, and Elektra 1/0/3), one with 3 covers (Star-Lord 1/1/1), two with 2 covers (Ant-Man 1/0/1 and Kingpin 1/1/0), and everybody else but Thing with a single cover.

I have 70 slots because I've short-changed my 1-2* roster. I have a blue Silver Surfer from one of those three Legendaries and have no complaints about that. But realistically, I am done with the 3* transition and should be working on the 4* transition. I normally finish T100 or better in PVE, and while I know I don't hit refreshes perfectly, I've not come close to that LT. I can hit 1000 in PvP if it's a Sunday finish and I have time that weekend, but with a wife and infant that's no guarantee. I've even hit 1300 before, when I had HP to burn and no kid. My roster can handle it, but I can't put that kind of time into this every day to reach arbitrary benchmarks. I've been playing almost 600 days in a casual alliance made up of folks from another forum site I frequent.

So if 4* DDQ isn't for me--and it isn't, I'm only good for 4 in a rotation--then what is? Do I stagnate unless I put additional hours into the game? If that's the only options for advancement, why should I bother? It changes the dynamic from a game I play casually (but still let's be honest, it's several hours daily) to one where I need to schedule around refreshed to hit PvE benchmarks and around shields to his PvP benchmarks. There's simply no alternative to transition between those two options, which is in stark contrast to the player-friendly format of 3* DDQ.

It is for you, and you are taking advantage of it. You pulled 3 of the 6 LTs so far. 4* DDQ "being for you" doesn't mean that you can beat it every single time. Just like the 3* DDQ is still for people without all the 3* characters. I'm only a little further than you with 270/220/200/200/166/112 being my 4* levels (5 of those 6 have already shown up in DDQ) and all others being 70. I don't anticipate being able to finish most of the remaining 4* DDQ nodes, but I still feel like this mode is "for me" and players with similar rosters to mine.

At this point it's a perspective and perception thing, I guess. While I've got 3/6, that's not going to hold up. The only one i have a chance with is Devil Dino, and then it's waiting for XFW and the beginning of the rotation all over again. And there will be more 4* added in the meantime so that doesn't seem to be slowing down at all. That's another 15-20 nodes once every five days that will go by me. That'll put me at 4/20. Hell, assume I fluke into some covers for somebody else, and then fluke out a win, and I'm 5/20. That's still a miserably failing percentage. Mathematically, my roster is not set up for this more than 25% of the time. That's not for me to take advantage of.

Similarly (and tangentially) the 1000 progression also follows that 20-character rotation, so that's still not targeted progression even if I were to suddenly decide to push for every 1000 (which simply isn't going to happen lol). In tandem, they're better than either individually, but neither option provides the level or progression available to players seeking 3* both in playing rewards and DDQ covers.

XandorXerxes

The problem is that it's a part of DDQ at all. If it had been marketed as it's own PvE that pops up every 5 days called "Grudge Match" or something similar and the players had been told at the onset that you're not supposed to win it unless you have a developed 4* roster, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. DDQ is instrumental in the 2*-3* transition. By getting a new extension (featuring 4*s), the player-base assumed that it would help them transition. Which, to be fair, it does - but from 4* to 5*, not 3* to 4*.

There are a number of players who have hundreds of days played that are well into 3* land or getting to / near the 3*-4* transition. They see (and don't object) to the newer players getting an easier transition to 3*. DDQ is useful for everyone - either for covers or as a pile of ISO. However, now a new tier has come out that allows all of the 4* people (or those decently on there way there) to grow even stronger, which makes life more difficult for the 3* people (fighting 4*s in PvP is already undesirable, now the 3*s have to deal with 5* players) without any way of helping the 3* people make it to the 4* level. So these 3* people, some who have been with the game for 1.5 to almost 2 years, are actively getting more competition from below, less competitive with those above them, and to top it off new 4*s come flowing down one after another. The 4* transition 6 months ago was significantly easier than it is today, because 6 months ago you could reasonably expect to get multiple covers for the same people. Not any more.

So getting 4*s is constantly getting harder, and even when a 3* player earns a 4* cover there is a huge dilution of characters which stall the 3* player from moving up. Of course the 3* players are angry, the game is actively being developed against them and they've been biding their time waiting for some method of stepping up to the next level and then 4* DDQ comes out. Might as well have poured gasoline on some embers.

To the people who say PvP is the answer, it's not - even getting 1K points in every PvP the 3* player will not actually gain any reasonable ground on the 4* transition with the current number of 4*s (90 PvPs or 225 days to get each 4* - because it rotates - about 6-covered), and more are getting added all of the time. Legendary tokens aren't the answer, because heaven help you if you pull a 5* to ruin your PvP and PvE scaling. There is no good answer currently, and the playerbase latched onto DDQ as a last hope only to have it make their lives more miserable.

smkspy

In my perspective, and purely my own, I'm seeing the three star and 4 star transition happening simultaneously now. For every few 3 stars I get, I get a four star. For new players, that's kinda confusing since those lines are blurred. If there were definite tiers this wouldn't be a problem. Each tier should be something to focus on, not some scattered brained **** shot where anything goes. It must be especially vexing for casual players that don't come to forums to learn game mechanics and don't understand why having a 4 or 5 star character in their low level roster is actually hurting them.

scottee

herm1978 wrote:

scottee wrote:

BTW, 1000 PVP is only the start of the 4* transition. It's the first step. Win a couple 4* covers for a given character and, oh, look, now you can win the 4* DDQ.

That right there is just what many people are complaining about. A couple is nowhere close to enough. Unless a couple means 6+ (number may vary depending on color).

I mean 3-4. Lots of people have been winning them with 3-4 covers. Is it possible everytime? Probably not. But just because some people haven't won with 3-4 covers, doesn't mean others haven't. I won the 4* Deadpool node with only 4 covers, 2 of which were useless. Is it the norm? Of course not, especially by the reactions in this thread. But if you follow the individual threads, lots of people are winning with " a couple" covers.

Like I've been saying, some people complain, and some people find a way to win. Instead of ignoring them, or saying it's impossible when it's clearly not, why not ask them how they did it? People say they don't want to spend health packs trying. Fine. In my book, 5-10 health packs is worth a legendary token.

Dauthi

XandorXerxes wrote:

However, now a new tier has come out that allows all of the 4* people (or those decently on there way there) to grow even stronger

This is not true.

The reason 4* DDQ exists is because token effectiveness is directly related to your roster. Others believe that 4*s are getting stronger because they get legendary tokens every 5 days, but how many of those do you think are actually useful to them? Tokens are random, we aren't guaranteed progress, however those who have little to no 4*s have an extremely high chance to progress. This is why 4*s need more tokens, while non 4* rosters need less for both to obtain equal progress.

To the people who say PvP is the answer, it's not - even getting 1K points in every PvP the 3* player will not actually gain any reasonable ground on the 4* transition with the current number of 4*s (90 PvPs or 225 days to get each 4* - because it rotates - about 6-covered), and more are getting added all of the time. Legendary tokens aren't the answer, because heaven help you if you pull a 5* to ruin your PvP and PvE scaling. There is no good answer currently, and the playerbase latched onto DDQ as a last hope only to have it make their lives more miserable.

Similarly, 1k PVP rewards progress is directly related to how effective they are. How often do you think 4*s see repeats pop up on the 1k rewards? I also believe, while sometimes hard depending on the time slice, a maxed out 3* team can always obtain this progress.

Before 4* DDQs progress was pretty terrible for 4* players. Even now it isn't much better, but for day 200 players to think they should progress faster than day 600, is a bit of a slap in the face. Everyone is progressing at roughly the same rate, thanks to the luck based token system D3 has put forward.

firethorne wrote:

Unless you can treat the game as full time job, you're going to hit a wall.

If you play casually, you should expect a serious slowing of progress like everyone does. You may feel it more because you go from steady to a crawl, while those who are more enthusiastic about the game go from a fast pace to a steady one. If everyone could race through any online game, they would lose customers pretty fast. The final goal has to always be distant, because once there what do they do?

scottee

I do think the 4* and 3* DDQ should match up more. The original intention of the 3* was to be supplemental and allow people to complete characters, but for a lot of people, it became the primary method of gaining 3* covers. For 4* DDQ, it is clearly supplemental and not the main way to earn them, and that's where a large part of the disconnect is.

I personally think they should both be supplemental, but no one would go along with the idea of changing 3* DDQ to only be possible with at least 3-4 covers instead of only requiring one.

ClydeFrog76

scottee wrote:

A lot of good has already been said, but I think people "expect" the 4* transition to be too easy. (I know, I know, it's the game's fault, not our expectations' fault.).

Explain to me how getting ONE COVER every five days is easy? How is that speeding up the 4* progression so much that veterans feel like they're being hard done by?

We just want some sort of progress that isn't fundamentally tied up with grinding. I fail to see how this is such a big deal.

scottee

ClydeFrog76 wrote:

scottee wrote:

A lot of good has already been said, but I think people "expect" the 4* transition to be too easy. (I know, I know, it's the game's fault, not our expectations' fault.).

Explain to me how getting ONE COVER every five days is easy? How is that speeding up the 4* progression so much that veterans feel like they're being hard done by?

We just want some sort of progress that isn't fundamentally tied up with grinding. I fail to see how this is such a big deal.

There's a post a couple pages back where the devs said they purposefully designed the game to be a grind. It's a game design choice. It keeps people from progressing too fast, but also from not being able to achieve anything.

https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33889&start=60#p429302

And I don't think there's anything wrong with getting one cover every five days for people who have already started the 4* transition. I'm just saying 4* DDQ shouldn't be the beginning of the transition. It should be helping in the middle and the end. So I'm happy with the way it currently is.

Omega Red

So, four star covers are not falling fast and easy enough. That's the core issue behind the OP and its supporters, right?

Then we have threads like this one that seem to debunk the myth that four star covers are impossible to obtain: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33928

XandorXerxes

Dauthi wrote:

This is not true.

The reason 4* DDQ exists is because token effectiveness is directly related to your roster. Others believe that 4*s are getting stronger because they get legendary tokens every 5 days, but how many of those do you think are actually useful to them? Tokens are random, we aren't guaranteed progress, however those who have little to no 4*s have an extremely high chance to progress. This is why 4*s need more tokens, while non 4* rosters need less for both to obtain equal progress.

That doesn't hold up, mostly because 2-3* transitioners and players with 3* rosters can't safely open legendary tokens. One 5* and the roster is toast (I suppose they could sell the 5*, but forcing a person to sell the "super rare" is just silly).

The other issue is that there are only 2 5* characters, and this is what the oldest vets usually ignore in these arguments. When there are only limited characters available, such as when it was only IW and XFW, you can only pull covers for those characters. By the time the 3* players get to 4*, how many 5*s will there be? 10? We're back to 1% odds for getting a particular character - good luck getting a particular cover for that character. It doesn't matter that (by my math) 3* players should pull 4* covers twice as fast as 4* players pull 5* covers, because there are a significant amount of 4* covers and limited 5* covers.

Similarly, 1k PVP rewards progress is directly related to how effective they are. How often do you think 4*s see repeats pop up on the 1k rewards? I also believe, while sometimes hard depending on the time slice, a maxed out 3* team can always obtain this progress.

Before 4* DDQs progress was pretty terrible for 4* players. Even now it isn't much better, but for day 200 players to think they should progress faster than day 600, is a bit of a slap in the face. Everyone is progressing at roughly the same rate, thanks to the luck based token system D3 has put forward.

A boosted one, perhaps - and if you have 20 maxed 3*s now, you've got a 50% shot at each character being boosted (assuming randomness), so statistically you'll have all 3 characters boosted once every season. Fortunately the tide of 3*s has slowed down, too. A lot of the older players are really under-estimating just how much harder having a ton of characters in the pool makes everything.

If you play casually, you should expect a serious slowing of progress like everyone does. You may feel it more because you go from steady to a crawl, while those who are more enthusiastic about the game go from a fast pace to a steady one. If everyone could race through any online game, they would lose customers pretty fast. The final goal has to always be distant, because once there what do they do?

If you play casually, you're dead in the water. Logging in and playing only DDQ each day is a crawl to a 3* state. There is 0 chance a casual player is going to get 4* characters unless he saves his tacos or gets lucky with his other ones. If you play hard, it will be a slog to 4* and progression has little guarantee.

As far as the final goal is concerned, should we just randomly delete covers from whales? What do they have to strive for? Do vets who have solid 4* rosters just stop playing? Why do players always have to be clawing tooth and nail to get anywhere to be "enjoying" the game? What does that say about the players who are already at the end? They don't enjoy the game, they just beat down 3* rosters out of obligation?

Even if 4* DDQ was the same as 3* DDQ only every 5 days, full 4* rosters have the 1300 progression. Assuming a player had 1 of every 4* cover and could win the 4* DDQ node each time, a 4* roster will earn 3x as many legendary tokens as that player would. Instead this thread is talking about "entitlements" and about how those 400-500 days players still need to earn their way. No one is asking for a "gimme." They're asking for a consistent way to earn 4* covers based on their own ability. All the 3* players are seeing if people would read into their comments is that they're tired of seeing the people who constantly set them back ask why they don't just do better. People here might as well be saying "let them eat cake."

Dragon_Nexus

Omega Red wrote:

So, four star covers are not falling fast and easy enough. That's the core issue behind the OP and its supporters, right?

Then we have threads like this one that seem to debunk the myth that four star covers are impossible to obtain: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33928

The experience of one user who opened a bunch of unique anniversary tokens and got excedingly lucky doesn't debunk anything.

ClydeFrog76

Omega Red wrote:

So, four star covers are not falling fast and easy enough. That's the core issue behind the OP and its supporters, right?

Then we have threads like this one that seem to debunk the myth that four star covers are impossible to obtain: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33928

You're joking, right?