4* DDQ, a debate

herm1978

When I was young I had to walk 15 miles to get home from school, you should be glad you get to take the bus even if you do have to wait an hour for it.

The youth of today, so coddled. Am I right?

PeterGibbons316

optimus2861 wrote:

stochasticism wrote:

Why does everyone think they are entitled to these?

Why do the top tier of players think that having one Legendary token made available every five days to us mere mortals absent the ludicrous grind that is the PvE Legendary token is 'entitlement'?

Because that is the definition of entitlement. People seem to believe that they are owed an easy battle for the best reward the game has to offer.

Unknown

If it ain't broke dont fix it...and it ain't broke so don't fix it!

Just because it's there doesn't mean it's for you. Too much self entitlement in this game for no reason.
This game is not a sprint it's a marathon. Granted they could do some things to improve that overall progression I don't think handing out 4 stars to everyone is the answer.

If they just handed you everything there would be nothing left to do in the game. I have missed on plenty of DDQ events and I have a pretty robust roster but I don't think they need to make it easier for my less formidable characters. I think I need to improve those characters so I can complete it next time around.

But that's just me.

mutimloh

Jamie Madrox wrote:

I think OP and like minded posters are missing the point.

DDQ is NOT for you. It's for players with established, but still lacking, 4* rosters to help them fill out their 4* characters and progress to 5*.

I'd hate to see how much whining you would come up with if you actually had to progress at the rate that the veteran players have. When I made the transition to there was so many fewer ways to do so. Be thankful for what you have.

I agree with Jamie. There are multiple ways to earn the Legendary tokens.

1) PVE: This legendary token is for everybody. Since this is the easiest to get (difficulty-wise, i.e. requires the weakest roster), it takes the most time investment.

2) PVP: In addition to the 1000 point progression, which 3*-4* transitioners should be able to easily get, the legendary token is there as well at 1300. This is harder to get than the PVE token, but also doesn't require as much of a grind as PVE.

3) 4* DDQ: This is 1 battle to get a legendary token. As such, that 1 battle makes sense to be hard.

There's a very clear trade-off between time-required and roster-strength. If you have a 1-cover 4-star, you are not the target audience of the 4* DDQ. If your roster is maxed with 3* and going to 4*, focus on the PVP and, if time permits, PVE tokens.

It's not just 1 legendary token every 5 days, because there are many different ways to get legendary tokens; with PVP alone, you can get ~6 4*s in a little over a week if you get the 1000 and 1300 rewards.

optimus2861

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Because that is the definition of entitlement. People seem to believe that they are owed an easy battle for the best reward the game has to offer.

19 4* characters plus one more on the way so that's 20. 13 covers required to complete each character means 260 covers required. Awarding one every five days to the bulk of the playerbase would still mean 1,300 days to acquire 260 tokens, or three and a half years. And that's assuming no 5* pulls and no duplicates of course.

'Entitled'. Bah!

Quebbster

optimus2861 wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Because that is the definition of entitlement. People seem to believe that they are owed an easy battle for the best reward the game has to offer.

19 4* characters plus one more on the way so that's 20. 13 covers required to complete each character means 260 covers required. Awarding one every five days to the bulk of the playerbase would still mean 1,300 days to acquire 260 tokens, or three and a half years. And that's assuming no 5* pulls and no duplicates of course.

'Entitled'. Bah!

On the other hand, the 1000 point PvP progression and random token drops help drive the time down quite a bit.

firethorne

I think the thing Jamie and many others have lost sight of is this:

Mod Edit: Please remove player names when posting images, thanks

Hmm, my debate with a mod gets modded. Sean Connory voice: I'll play your game, you rogue.
Done


This is the current reality for people with underleveled rosters. The 1000 points in PvP for someone running this and destroying 3* teams, pretty easy. The opposite, not so much. If my roster isn't good enough to face one 4*, fine. But then you can't say PvP progression, where I have to face two or three dozens of times over, is an easy alternative.

At what point can a game just be fun and not about lording your status over others?

Moral

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

optimus2861 wrote:

stochasticism wrote:

Why does everyone think they are entitled to these?

Why do the top tier of players think that having one Legendary token made available every five days to us mere mortals absent the ludicrous grind that is the PvE Legendary token is 'entitlement'?

Because that is the definition of entitlement. People seem to believe that they are owed an easy battle for the best reward the game has to offer.

Legendary tokens are described as "end game content".

I don't understand how people with half-finished characters believe they should have a reasonable shot at completing battles designed as "end game content".

There's nothing entitled about it. It's obvious, unless you don't know the definition of "end game content".

PeterGibbons316

optimus2861 wrote:

19 4* characters plus one more on the way so that's 20. 13 covers required to complete each character means 260 covers required. Awarding one every five days to the bulk of the playerbase would still mean 1,300 days to acquire 260 tokens, or three and a half years. And that's assuming no 5* pulls and no duplicates of course.

'Entitled'. Bah!

So as a member of the playerbase you are inherently deserving of a legendary token every 5 days?

That is the **** definition of entitled.....

en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"

nwman

I think the real answer is we need more ISO. Sure it might break the 1* - 2* transition but if that is a real problem then just increase the ISO cost to level 1* to offset it somewhat.

Then 3* players can max more and compete for the 1k pvp 4* cover.

We are all basically way behind in ISO. Just leave it double always or at least increase it by 50%.

Then it's not a waste to pump up under covered 4* as much to try the ddq 4* challenge also. (For say 3-6 cover pkayers)

Old-new

20-30
70-105
100-150
500-750
1000-1250

I know there are other values.

nonnel

firethorne wrote:

I think the thing Jamie and many others have lost sight of is this:

I'd hulk bomb it. Before the Nerf of goddess and XF, that's how i started hitting top progression. (XF pre Nerf would still be top 4* today).

Hulk vs IF creates lots of green. You are guaranteed 2 angers per turn. Best of luck in your progression.

firethorne

Moral wrote:

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

optimus2861 wrote:

stochasticism wrote:

Why does everyone think they are entitled to these?

Why do the top tier of players think that having one Legendary token made available every five days to us mere mortals absent the ludicrous grind that is the PvE Legendary token is 'entitlement'?

Because that is the definition of entitlement. People seem to believe that they are owed an easy battle for the best reward the game has to offer.

Legendary tokens are described as "end game content".

I don't understand how people with half-finished characters believe they should have a reasonable shot at completing battles designed as "end game content".

There's nothing entitled about it. It's obvious, unless you don't know the definition of "end game content".

Which, in itself, is fine. But the problem then becomes, how often do people in the endgame content get to beat up on people that are nowhere close. Either 4* rosters are endgame content, and should be far more segregated and prevented from attacking underleveled characters, or they are the new meta, and there should be fairly easy ways to build them to get everyone on the same page.

acescracked

theHappyDance wrote:

stochasticism wrote:

Why does everyone think they are entitled to these?

Yeah, I know. Why does everyone feel entitled to be able to progress at all in a video game. We should make all aspects of our lives inequality simulators to reflect the harsh nature of life instead of allowing people a reprieve when they want to play a fun match-3 for recreation.
...

I think your basic disconnect is not understanding the free to play model. D3s first priority is to make money, second priority is to make more money. As consumers we foolishly embracd the free to play model cause hey, its free! To me it seems paying $60 up front with no micro transactoons is better for the consumer where in the long run game producers make more with free to play.

So, only two ways to progress in free to play; pay or play a long slow tedious game if you don't want to pay. D3 is trying to make you buy tokens and token packs. Pretty simple. I don't blame them, they are a business.

I have 639 days in and three 270s and 2 250s. Freaking slow as hell but I knew what I signed up for. Good luck with your crusade happydance.

mutimloh

firethorne wrote:

I think the thing Jamie and many others have lost sight of is this:



This is the current reality for people with underleveled rosters. The 1000 points in PvP for someone running this and destroying 3* teams, pretty easy. The opposite, not so much. If my roster isn't good enough to face one 4*, fine. But then you can't say PvP progression, where I have to face two or three, is an easy alternative.

At what point can a game just be fun and not about lording your status over others?

The legendary tokens are to get 4*s. If you want 4*s, you should have a solidified 3* roster before wanting to get a ton of 4* tokens. If your 3* roster is still weak, don't even worry about legendary tokens, you should be trying to get your 3* roster filled out.

I have max covered (a couple bottom tier ones, i.e. Rags, aren't optimally covered), but not maxed levelled, all the 3*s and am starting my 4* transition. I have yet to ever field a 4* in PVP, but have gotten 1000 in every PVP since a month or so after the change in scoring. My boosted 3* team was able to take on JG, Iceman, HB teams with the help of a couple of boosts. Boosted 3*s at 240 can hold their own against 4*s. If you come across a team of lvl 350 4*s, just hit the skip button. There are multiple threads in the forum with guides on hitting the 1000 and 1300 progression.

My previous post was to try to back up the devs and try to guess their logic behind each of the legendary token rewards:
PVE: 2*-3* transitioners to kickstart their 4* collection if they want/have roster slots
PVP: 3*-4* transitioners
4* DDQ: Medium-strong 4* roster

I'm not "lording my status", but am trying to help out people by setting expectations that the 4* DDQ is simply not for everybody (including myself!).

Unknown

stochasticism wrote:

Why does everyone think they are entitled to these?

It has nothing to do with "entitlement" - it has to do with progressing - and having a realistic way to progress...

I am on Day 660 (approx) with around $300 spent over the 2 years - I have been through the 2*-3* transition before and after the addition of DDQ - DDQ was a huge help getting to 3*. Even if the covers are slow in coming, every day you feel like you have made a little progress - I always looked forward to checking first thing in the AM to see what cover I was adding for the day (eagerly awaited the last Magneto Blue for a long time...). And when i got close and found heroes fun to play, I spent some money to buy HP to cover them completely (just did this with Cage and IF). If nothing else every day was another 7000 ISO to help level. Since DDQ, I have gone from having three 3* fully leveled (LThor, BP, GSBW) to having more than a dozen (including SW and Cyclops). For the last year, it has been fun to make some progress, try out different teams and get some tokens (300 PvP was easier, as is 650 now), plus daily tacos and even the grey tokens would drop the odd 3* and even 4* back then (I have gotten a couple of 4* from grey tokens back in the day. The last year has actually been fun...

Unfortunately, this is where D3's choices have changed my feelings of the game. I need Blade and SHulk covers and then I am done with my 3* teams, but I will never see the 4* transition. I simply do not have the time to play enough. 1000 PvP should be possible with my 3* roster but it's not - once I hit 800, I find I get hammered back down to 600 quickly and I am not spending any real $$$ on HP for shields. The alliance I'm in is casual and fun, but not top 100 so those bonuses are never going to help 4* transition (and that's fine - I like the alliance I am in). I do not have the time to grind the PvE events in order to earn top spots. I simply have no more room to reasonably progress, so what will end up happening is I will slowly stop playing.

If the 4* challenges provided me a reasonable way to acquire a cover every couple of days, the game would go back to the fun it was when 3* DDQ began. I understand progress would still be slow, but at least it would be progress. For the next year I could chase 4* covers and reasonably build my 4* roster (and maybe spend a few $$$ on HP). But as it stands today, my run is about done because there is no reasonable way for me to acquire 4* covers...

All I ask to continue playing is a chance at progressing that doesn't require hours a day to achieve... without that, the fun of the game disappears. No more excitement opening up a token and finding a cover I need...

lukewin

I wish this thread, Let's agree to all finally quit MPQ together wasn't locked, so I could respond to this post

theHappyDance wrote:

All the best everyone. Now I'm done here.

with this reply. You go first, and we'll follow you.

Pinko_McFly

I personally think the 4* DDQ is fine where it is, and I am not able to take on most of them as most of my 4*s are well-covered. This is one fight for a legendary token, great reward for little investment (at that time, overall tons of investment).
I think the masses might be a little happier if they took it one step further and actually put something out there for the 3-4* transitioners.

The other 4 days of DDQ could have a match that require the upcoming 4*. Team battles that increase in difficulty, last day should require you to have at least two 166s to have a shot at it. If you beat all 4 days, you get a cover for that 4* character.
This would fuel progression from 3-4*, let the 1 covered people have a chance to get something out of it, and maybe give people that extra cover they need for the day 5 fight.

Moral

firethorne wrote:

Which, in itself, is fine. But the problem then becomes, how often do people in the endgame content get to beat up on people that are nowhere close. Either 4* rosters are endgame content, and should be far more segregated and prevented from attacking underleveled characters, or they are the new meta, and there should be fairly easy ways to build them to get everyone on the same page.

Time or money. It's the F2P model. 80 hours to reach end game content is for console gamers.

My alliance has a guy going the time route. he's gone from a 3* level 140 as his best character in March to using the buffed list with a mature 3* roster to progress nicely on collecting 4* covers. Not a single max cover 4* character yet but hits 1k almost every pvp event. He even hit 1300 once

simonsez

theHappyDance wrote:

Make the health bar for the 4* node in Deadpool Daily persistent between matches so players with lower-covered 4*'s can whittle it down slowly over a number of matches and still have a decent shot at beating it by playing it multiple times.

This is a great idea, because then when they cash in the legendary token, they can come here and make a thread complaining that they have to sell their SS because it might mess up their scaling.

An even greater idea is to just let people progress at the appropriate rate.

djpt05

I'm in a similar boat as the OP. I usually play 2-3 hours a day, on day ~680 and have almost all 3*s maxed. I'm in a casual alliance as I don't have the time to put in the numbers for a top 100 alliance.

I decided to make a run for 1000 pts for the first time in the Black Vortex PvP. I shielded once I got around 980 pts, broke shield when I thought I found a target I could quickly beat (b/c all those 3*s have such quickly activating powers...) and immediately lost 40 pts to a team of maxed 4*s.

PvP Legendary "only" requires 3 clears a day for 3.5 - 7 days straight which is pretty tough for me with a job and child.

While I understand everyone's argument about entitlement I wish the 4* community would at least agree that a 3* - 4* transition is not as simple as they are making it out to be. It's practically stalled at this point.