Victory Bonus - Upcoming Feature Discussion

Unknown

IceIX: will retaliations cause us to lose bonus?

I'd suggest they dont because some of these are from really low players now that the MMR ceiling is gone and it's a losing game to retaliate a 5-10pt match.

Also hope that we only see matches worth 15+ points but without mention that MMR is being tweaked I still think I'm going to get a pile of 10ish ones that beg to be skipped.

Unknown

So awesome! Thanks for listening to us!

Does this mean the iso rewards will not change to: 70, 100, 140, 200?

Twysta

Yeah he's said that the 30 bonus kind of gives teh same iso advantage that adding 100 + 200 to the rewards pool would and they're going to monitor how the system works before they make any further tweaks.

Unknown

I haven't read the entire thread, but saw at least one person mention retaliations. There's times over night or while at work I'll get attacked 5 or 6 times. A few of those will be higher than me I don't want to hit back and skip to get to someone my level. Thus, I don't think it should cost to skip retaliations.

Twysta

I'm pretty sure they've said before that skipping retaliations won't cost anything.

mouser

IceX, if you don't mind I didn't see an answer to my earlier question. Thanks

mouser wrote:

Question: If I pay to skip an opponent will they still end up back in my queue a few skips later?

One thing that concerns me is I frequently find my battle options are rotating among a small pool of 4-8 other players as available opponents. If players are going to have to pay to skip an opponent it would make sense that they stay skipped, at least until you've battled someone else.

Unknown

Catalyst wrote:

yes this is purely a wording and a perception thing, but that does actually make for a better experience. Reducing skips was a priority of the dev team, something was going to change, this is a better change to try and acheive the same.

BETTER: 100/170 will be less of a delta than 70/200 so it evens out a bit more.

BETTER: tax comes out of future earnings not current earnings, net result same on your iso bank but less painful perception. This is like if you had to pay for $20 parking to go to work each day but make $120 a day vs your company giving you free parking passes but only $100 per day.

BETTER: avg will be 7iso higher if you dont skip at all.

current average iso = 105
max 200 average iso = 128
max 170 average iso = 135

I'd like to say thanks to IceIX, Demiurge_Will and the team for listening to our voices and not just plowing stubbornly ahead.

I'm pretty sure they're exactly the same, but it's similar to how people had problem in MMORPG with rest XP = 100%, normal = 50% but they're perfectly fine if rest XP = 200%, normal = 100% and everything requires twice as much XP to level, even though there is literally no difference between the two.

IceIX

mouser wrote:

Question: If I pay to skip an opponent will they still end up back in my queue a few skips later?

One thing that concerns me is I frequently find my battle options are rotating among a small pool of 4-8 other players as available opponents. If players are going to have to pay to skip an opponent it would make sense that they stay skipped, at least until you've battled someone else.

Not sure on the former, I'll check into it. As for the latter, there should be less situations where you're running into a very small selection of opponents unless you're sitting at the very top of the MMR ladder. And even then, there should still be a selection that's larger than 4-8 opponents.

turul

IceIX wrote:

Veracity wrote:

You don't get the bonus if you lose but yes, sounds like a match completed either way resets it back to max, so "grind up the Yelena clone army for sale overseas labeled 'beef'" may have just migrated from TaT to be the new cheapskate skip button. Obviously applies only during ISO grinding sessions, not rating pushes.

An abort won't reset the bonus so you'd have to actually finish the match and as a result would have Yelena and Bag-Man sitting in your front lines for everyone else to beat on till you finished another match with your A Team. That's a pretty risky proposition...

Only winned matches change the defence team... or am i wrong?

DD-The-Mighty

SO the primary issuance of the skip tax is to discourage cherry tapping. with that in mind i have justr a few questions.

As its clear that there is/was no intention so separate the player/character "weight classes", was skipping originally implemented to compensate for the poor match-ups that players would be cycled into (character levels too high, placements and point rewards too low per fight difficulty or ease, etc etc.)?

What solutions do you have for players with character teams stuck in the sub 40s-50's, as they lack the punch necessary to handle mmr match-ups with players running characters 10-15+ levels above them, regardless of leader board placement?

How many matches does one have to get curb stomped in before the MMR to determine my "correct" level of match difficulty and actually pair me with other players with rosters near to my rosters levels?
and lastly is there any plans to address the long cool-downs you will most certainly occur from these consecutive losses?

bahamut685

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

What solutions do you have for players with character teams stuck in the sub 40s-50's, as they lack the punch necessary to handle mmr match-ups with players running characters 10-15+ levels above them, regardless of leader board placement?

Do you mean a solution to the free wins? (since 'sub 40s-50s' make up half of the top 10 in most brackets of every tourney now, since the MMR is screwed to ****)

bahamut685

IceIX wrote:

And even then, there should still be a selection that's larger than 4-8 opponents.

Yay, we're getting increased opponent pools, I am glad to hear that. [skipping 5 or 6 times to not fight someone with average 30-70 levels on me, so I canthe one person I'm allowed to fight with only 20ish levels on my team (who's inevitably worth 12-17 points) has sucked]

Unknown

Not sure if this was addressed or not, but I am curious to know if bracketing is going to be changed by this. What I mean is, if a person is in the top 10, will they at least in theory be able to target other players in the top 10? I ask because it seems like no matter where a person is ranked, they never seem to target people right near them. For example, I've been in top 10s where I couldn't find any of the other top 10 guys and this was before shielding.

DD-The-Mighty

bahamut685 wrote:

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

What solutions do you have for players with character teams stuck in the sub 40s-50's, as they lack the punch necessary to handle mmr match-ups with players running characters 10-15+ levels above them, regardless of leader board placement?

Do you mean a solution to the free wins? (since 'sub 40s-50s' make up half of the top 10 in most brackets of every tourney now, since the MMR is screwed to **** ~On the final day? so you claim)

I aplogise for asking NotYou about Matchmaking. I am also sorry i asked NotYou about the possibility of fighting more opponents closer to my own rosters level. and lastly i am soOoo sorry I ever dared to lose a match that was below

bahamut685 wrote:

only 20ish levels on my team

I hope I can someday be as hard core as you, so I may too find a way to get "free wins".

bahamut685

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

bahamut685 wrote:

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

What solutions do you have for players with character teams stuck in the sub 40s-50's, as they lack the punch necessary to handle mmr match-ups with players running characters 10-15+ levels above them, regardless of leader board placement?

Do you mean a solution to the free wins? (since 'sub 40s-50s' make up half of the top 10 in most brackets of every tourney now, since the MMR is screwed to ****)

I aplogise for asking NotYou about Matchmaking. I am also sorry i asked NotYou about the possibility of fighting more opponents closer to my own rosters level. and lastly i am soOoo sorry I ever dared to lose a match that was below

bahamut685 wrote:

only 20ish levels on my team

I hope I can someday be as hard core as you, so I may too find a way to get "free wins".

It's like you think you know how the English language works, but clearly your reading comprehension fails. It's well known that low level players (20-30s) are currently getting an overly easy run at rewards. I'm in the opposite situation, being that all of my opponents are far above my level, despite not managing a top 15 finish in ages, and barely managing top 45s anymore (though this will presumably change with the no-skip +iso bonus).

kensterr

I keep getting 2 out of 3 maxed ** star opponents. My roster only has a level 70 ** Storm, with others below her level. No choice but to skip!

DD-The-Mighty

bahamut685 wrote:

It's like you think you know how the English language works, but clearly your reading comprehension fails. It's well known that low level players (20-30s) are currently getting an overly easy run at rewards. I'm in the opposite situation, being that all of my opponents are far above my level, despite not managing a top 15 finish in ages, and barely managing top 45s anymore (though this will presumably change with the no-skip +iso bonus).

Pre thorverine? definetly. Post? NO. That's ****.

The average brackets throw high, middle, and and lows all together. That is a proven fact. and the number of "low level" to mid"level" players that finish the last day in top 15 is a low percentage. If that were even the result in 30% of the brackets out there, you and every other near endgamer would be all over the forums throwing a unholy fit. You rightfully did when lower level thorverines were jacking you for 30 points a pop. Why the heck are you attacking me, when i wasn't even talking to you?
You claim i want "free wins" and then you openly admit that your bootyhurt at the "mmr" for not essentially giving you "free wins" and keeping you in the top 45-15 every tourney.

You sound kinda bitter buddy, wanna talk about it in PM? Gives these nice forum folks a break from your crazy? Hit me up.

bahamut685

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Pre thorverine? definetly. Post? NO. That's ****.

The average brackets throw high, middle, and and lows all together. That is a proven fact. and the number of "low level" to mid"level" players that finish the last day in top 15 is a low percentage. If that were even the result in 30% of the brackets out there, you and every other near endgamer would be all over the forums throwing a unholy fit. You rightfully did when lower level thorverines were jacking you for 30 points a pop. Why the heck are you attacking me, when i wasn't even talking to you?
You claim i want "free wins" and then you openly admit that your bootyhurt at the "mmr" for not essentially giving you "free wins" and keeping you in the top 45-15 every tourney.

You sound kinda bitter buddy, wanna talk about it in PM? Gives these nice forum folks a break from your crazy? Hit me up.

Didn't mean to attack you, but I wasn't at all complaining about not getting free wins, I was complaining about ONLY getting matches significantly above me, and the fact that I have to skip a half dozen times to get an achievable match against somebody 'only' 20ish levels above me, instead of the usual 50ish levels above me. And because of how the mmr works, I haven't seen a bracket without at least 3 of the top 10 having a high level character no higher than 40 (or the occasional 50).

Unknown

It keep amazing me how easy yo can manipulate people with just mincing words.

The new system is barely different from the old one. Some of the attached ISO was reallocated to a different place. And people come out in long dense rows to say "thanks for listening." Completely forgetting what our problem was and how it remains ignored.

So let's go back to square 1, why we use skip and hate it in the first place: it offers **** matchups. Namely:

- low-point teams that put us in net loss
- auto-lose teams (buffed 100+ all-yellow patch, max spidey, mags, hood, whatever screws you with barely any hope)
- the above two combined

What we asked repeatedly was pretty simple:

- PLEASE do not introduce tax BEFORE you fix matchmaking and/or add filters that makes us see matches feasible to take on


Is that happening? By the announcement, no. We get the same lousy matches. We get to pay to skip them just with a little delay.

Also there were a plenty of actually interesting tweaks to the tax system, those were all ignored too. The idea about motivation would result similar to what's coming but with important difference: it bottoms up at 0 rather than -10, forming the original tax in a few clicks.

So on my part, "thanks" for not listening -- "kudos" for your smarts, if you applied the same resources to actual improvement of the root problems (matchmaking, insane point grab) instead of just manipulating the audience, the tournament experience could be actually fun again.

OTOH you get score for actual announcing ahead this time.

Unknown

bahamut685 wrote:

It's well known that low level players (20-30s) are currently getting an overly easy run at rewards.

See illustration here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2785&p=53263#p53263 from recent tournament. The system is blatantly broken putting the players fighting wastly different opposition in same brackets for same points.