Highest PVP scores being promoted by D3

TheOncomingStorm

TheOncomingStorm wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Ok, this entire thread turned into a tl;dr mess.

The post on Facebook was to entice new players. It is also a good showing that PVP rewards should be increased. Not 1 of the people on that list have bothered posting to defend or comment on anything.. so you are tilting at windmills at this point.

you want the truth about Line... here it goes.

I joined Line, at first to merc. then i hit 1k, (see my thread in tips), someone invited me into a room full of extremely helpful people. I asked questions, real, valid, on point questions. I got real answers. I can now hit 1k consistently. Not by magic, not by co-ordination, not by some form of extreme collaboration.. but because i wanted to, and i asked people who knew how.

End of story. There is no conspiracy.. Yes, people helping other people has to suck, i know, what is this world coming to, next thing you know there will be world peace.. you would hate that wouldn't you.

Oh yea, there was an original topic. Heh. I don't see what's wrong on congratulating your best players. Your best should have higher scores.

I'm not worried about noobs, dwill has their back, which is probably a good thing. Sharding, new mmr, new buffs, etc. I don't think anyone goes into any other game expecting to be the top scorer right off the back. I think it's nice MPQ took time to recognize some players.

P.S. Please stop the rumors of a helpful, fun, friendly place on Line, we don't have enough Popcorn for everyone.

simonsez

sagapo wrote:

Limit the amount of skips per hour on each node so people can't keep picking on weaker opponents purposely?

If you think people are hitting the skip button to find weak targets, you don't understand PvP.

mags1587

sagapo wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should .... nor does it mean doing so is the most advantageous strategy ... and it isn't, if your goal is to score higher. In this model, players score higher together, or they chain each other to a lowest common denominator.

The general complaint here is an inability to score higher.

The answer is always going to be: score ... higher ... together.

Disagree. The higher they score, the higher I must score to get/keep Rank 1. You are turning it into a grind like Story mode. The only reason it isn't like that right now is because of the shield cooldowns.

Sure the placement rewards aren't that great, but the fact that you can say you "beat the game" by reaching Rank 1 consistently, is what drives competitive people to play.

Why would I let them get points easily? That ruins Versus mode.

Right there is the disconnect. You're playing versus mode differently than I am. You're playing for placement. You're playing to rank higher than the other players in your bracket. I am not. I am playing to collect the progression awards. Higher scores mean my climb to 1300 is easier, so I like seeing lots of high points. If it means I place only top 50 with 1300 points, so be it. Higher scores mean placement is more difficult for you, so you would rather reign in those high scores. If ranking first is what motivates you to play this game, great, but don't assume that it applies to every player across the board. (Also, a tip -- if you want placement, avoid slices 1 and 4.)

aesthetocyst

sagapo wrote:

Disagree. The higher they score, the higher I must score to get/keep Rank 1. You are turning it into a grind like Story mode. The only reason it isn't like that right now is because of the shield cooldowns.

Sure the placement rewards aren't that great, but the fact that you can say you "beat the game" by reaching Rank 1 consistently, is what drives competitive people to play.

Why would I let them get points easily? That ruins Versus mode.

No one "lets" anyone get points in PvP—everyone has to fight their own battles. You're not talking about "letting" them get points, everyone earns points by winning matches and no one can prevent anyone from fighting. You're talking about attempting to reduce their score while increasing your own.

So what's the problem with reducing their scores you may ask? Answered with a question. You earn points in PvP by winning matches; if you win a match, the amount of points is determined by ... what?

Their score. In relation to your score. If their score is low, it isn't worth attacking.

Follow your ill-advised approach to its ultimate conclusion. By reducing the scores of others, you are ultimately reducing your own potential score. If everyone operates this way, the result is ... a bone-dry slice. A gutter fight. A miserable grind. MPQ's version of barbarism. A slice full of IceIX's Sisyphean boulder-rollers. A room full of gunmen shooting each other in circular fashion.

You're not going to climb this way. Why not? All scores are codependent. No one climbs alone.

So, you've learned your lesson. Realized that hitting that player 15min later when he has 100 more pts pays better. Great!

Now, how ya gonna get good placement?

Out work those in your bracket. How do you think those guys piling up 2500pts do it?

By playing more. And playing wisely. And they certainly don't have time to tear others down. From the lofty heights of 2K+, who ya gonna snipe?

So, if the big scorers aren't into sniping, and they do place well, what does that indicate for people whose complaint is wanting to score higher and place well?

It only takes a few bad apples to dry out a slice. Don't be one of them. The players that don't even realize what they are doing are bad enough.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

sagapo wrote:

Limit the amount of skips per hour on each node so people can't keep picking on weaker opponents purposely?

If you think people are hitting the skip button to find weak targets, you don't understand PvP.

Lol, If you don't understand what that means, you don't understand anything I've said.

That was only IF everyone received the same amount of points, why would you fight a more difficult opponent? Everyone will try to pick on loki/hood teams since they get the same net points per win, except faster.

Unknown

mags1587 wrote:

sagapo wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should .... nor does it mean doing so is the most advantageous strategy ... and it isn't, if your goal is to score higher. In this model, players score higher together, or they chain each other to a lowest common denominator.

The general complaint here is an inability to score higher.

The answer is always going to be: score ... higher ... together.

Disagree. The higher they score, the higher I must score to get/keep Rank 1. You are turning it into a grind like Story mode. The only reason it isn't like that right now is because of the shield cooldowns.

Sure the placement rewards aren't that great, but the fact that you can say you "beat the game" by reaching Rank 1 consistently, is what drives competitive people to play.

Why would I let them get points easily? That ruins Versus mode.

Right there is the disconnect. You're playing versus mode differently than I am. You're playing for placement. You're playing to rank higher than the other players in your bracket. I am not. I am playing to collect the progression awards. Higher scores mean my climb to 1300 is easier, so I like seeing lots of high points. If it means I place only top 50 with 1300 points, so be it. Higher scores mean placement is more difficult for you, so you would rather reign in those high scores. If ranking first is what motivates you to play this game, great, but don't assume that it applies to every player across the board. (Also, a tip -- if you want placement, avoid slices 1 and 4.)

mags, I'm not trying to ruin progression reward for anyone. I just want to gain points effectively without the need to use the exploit. Right now I am not even trying for Rank 1 anymore, it is nearly impossible without communication unless you join an event at the 30 minute end time and score 500 points to get Rank 1, but there is no glory in that. Until this is fixed, I will just grab my 1.3k and bounce, that usually puts me at top 5... but that's not enough, since I can't progress any further, might eventually get bored.

Unknown

aesthetocyst wrote:

sagapo wrote:

Disagree. The higher they score, the higher I must score to get/keep Rank 1. You are turning it into a grind like Story mode. The only reason it isn't like that right now is because of the shield cooldowns.

Sure the placement rewards aren't that great, but the fact that you can say you "beat the game" by reaching Rank 1 consistently, is what drives competitive people to play.

Why would I let them get points easily? That ruins Versus mode.

No one "lets" anyone get points in PvP—everyone has to fight their own battles. You're not talking about "letting" them get points, everyone earns points by winning matches and no one can prevent anyone from fighting. You're talking about attempting to reduce their score while increasing your own.

So what's the problem with reducing their scores you may ask? Answered with a question. You earn points in PvP by winning matches; if you win a match, the amount of points is determined by ... what?

Their score. In relation to your score. If their score is low, it isn't worth attacking.

Follow your ill-advised approach to its ultimate conclusion. By reducing the scores of others, you are ultimately reducing your own potential score. If everyone operates this way, the result is ... a bone-dry slice. A gutter fight. A miserable grind. MPQ's version of barbarism. A slice full of IceIX's Sisyphean boulder-rollers. A room full of gunmen shooting each other in circular fashion.

You're not going to climb this way. Why not? All scores are codependent. No one climbs alone.

So, you've learned your lesson. Realized that hitting that player 15min later when he has 100 more pts pays better. Great!

Now, how ya gonna get good placement?

Out work those in your bracket. How do you think those guys piling up 2500pts do it?

By playing more. And playing wisely. And they certainly don't have time to tear others down. From the lofty heights of 2K+, who ya gonna snipe?

So, if the big scorers aren't into sniping, and they do place well, what does that indicate for people whose complaint is wanting to score higher and place well?

It only takes a few bad apples to dry out a slice. Don't be one of them. The players that don't even realize what they are doing are bad enough.

.... sigh.

*face palm*

scottee

This thread is like watching two people who speak different languages have an argument that devolves into a knife fight that devolves into a chainsaw fight that turns into looking for translators because no one can read the instructions for the chainsaws. Everyone gets bloodied and nobody wins.

Omega Red

I can hit 1000 and 1300 progression. I don't use line and I'm not even a member of any alliance. Everything you need to know on how to hit top progression rewards is -and always has been- widely available in this message board. Whiners seem to refuse to get it and they greatly misunderstand and overestimate the role of offline communication in the metagame.

acescracked

Omega Red wrote:

I can hit 1000 and 1300 progression. I don't use line and I'm not even a member of any alliance. Everything you need to know on how to hit top progression rewards is -and always has been- widely available in this message board. Whiners seem to refuse to get it and they greatly misunderstand and overestimate the role of offline communication in the metagame.

Best. Post. Ever!

Thank you. Too bad dauthi and his sidekick sagpro will ignore it.

lokiagentofhotness

offline communication does matter - if i am a 75 point queue why wouldn't i want to share it with my alliance mates? it benefits both them and the alliance which benefits me. not everyone has to do it or wants to do it. you can get along perfectly fine without it. you can even win brackets, although it's much harder now with some people able to get 75 point queues easily. that said, it's easy enough to just skim through nodes and find a high point hopper in a busy slice. you're doing it wrong if you can't find a single high point player.

there's more than one way to play pvp, and i think both sides, the side that wants co-ordinated hopping and no sniping of unshielded players, etc. and the side that doesn't want that and just wants to hit opponents for the maximum no of points no matter what, need to get that and not think that the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

mjh

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here we go..



https://www.facebook.com/MarvelPuzzleQuest/photos/a.570884696292054.1073741830.507169359330255/892020584178462/?type=1&theater

hurcules

This is preposterous. Where's the love for Story Mode / PvE global top scorers?

wymtime

lokiagentofhotness wrote:

offline communication does matter - if i am a 75 point queue why wouldn't i want to share it with my alliance mates? it benefits both them and the alliance which benefits me. not everyone has to do it or wants to do it. you can get along perfectly fine without it. you can even win brackets, although it's much harder now with some people able to get 75 point queues easily. that said, it's easy enough to just skim through nodes and find a high point hopper in a busy slice. you're doing it wrong if you can't find a single high point player.

there's more than one way to play pvp, and i think both sides, the side that wants co-ordinated hopping and no sniping of unshielded players, etc. and the side that doesn't want that and just wants to hit opponents for the maximum no of points no matter what, need to get that and not think that the system is broken and needs to be fixed.

Here is the thing. Ice has posted shield hopping is a very hot topic among the devs becuase they don't want PVP to be pay to win. They want FTP players or minor investors to be able to come close to the higher scorers. I am someone who just likes the progression and could care less if I am top 10,5 or even number 1. I don't mind coordination to score high.
I do think that if it is a hot topic with the devs the player base should give suggestions that would be fair to the majority of the player base. The talks of making all lined up fights reset when you break shield would destroy whales and really hurts players just trying to break 1000 and have to use shields to just get that high. I keep suggesting removing the shield cool down and place a limit on the number of shields a player can use. This would allow high end players to still use outside coordination and still score fairly high. High might now be 1500 compared to 2000+ but they can still compete for number 1 and achieve all progressions. high end players would also not have to spend 500 hp for 3 hops in quick succession.
Players using 1-2 shields would score closer to top people, and would not feel quite so out paced.
So the question is if the devs are GOING to change something about high scoring and make adjustments to the shield system what would you want to see knowing they want top scores around 1300-1500 points?

aesthetocyst

mjh wrote:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here we go..

Nifty. I wonder if the interest (as indicated by comments) will keep up, or this become old hat right off the bat.

Would be a lot more fun in there were a live, universal leaderboard for all open events in game...or, to save everyone's dataplan, on the web.

wymtime wrote:

Ice has posted shield hopping is a very hot topic among the devs becuase they don't want PVP to be pay to win. They want FTP players or minor investors to be able to come close to the higher scorers.

Easy enough. Cooldowns has already limited the number of shields to about 21 (depending on how the 24hr shield bug is feeling that day). Since taking away shield hopping would do a lot of harm, put hopping within reach of everyone by injecting sufficient HP into the progression to make hopping more "revenue neutral" for more players. The devs often say shield sales are not a major source of $$$, so this shouldn't hurt them.

So 21 shields (8 x 3hr, 8 x 8hr, 5 x 24hr) comes to 3600 HP. Currently the most HP you can win from a PvP is 450. Sprinkle in some or all of the difference from 500 - 1500pts in PvP.

Make PvP even more plainly who can play the best, rather than pay the best.

Ducky

aesthetocyst wrote:

Make PvP even more plainly who can play the best, rather than pay the best.

The only way to do that would be to have actual Player vs Player, which isn't really feasible given server limitations as far as I understand it.

TheOncomingStorm

hurcules wrote:

This is preposterous. Where's the love for Story Mode / PvE global top scorers?

I was #1 in dpdq, where's my recognition?

In all seriousness, I like the t10 overall leaderboard thing. I'm always curious about it any way. I wonder what the t10 for the noob shards looks like.

Dauthi

acescracked wrote:

Omega Red wrote:

I can hit 1000 and 1300 progression. I don't use line and I'm not even a member of any alliance. Everything you need to know on how to hit top progression rewards is -and always has been- widely available in this message board. Whiners seem to refuse to get it and they greatly misunderstand and overestimate the role of offline communication in the metagame.

Best. Post. Ever!

Thank you. Too bad dauthi and his sidekick sagpro will ignore it.

Ironic you say that when the post completely ignores all the points being made against the exploit, and further cements this by calling the opposing side "whiners."

The facts are that using out of game communication to coordinate shield hops is an exploit as noted by Ice. Ice also stated they would like it if players didn't use the exploit, but they will not punish them.

The exploit gives a few players an advantage. Now I have seen the opposing side claim the advantage is big, and the players who score tons of points need it so they can trickle it down to everyone. I have also seen it said that the advantage is small, downplaying it. The consensus however is that there is an advantage given through using it. Even the devs can see this, which is why it is discouraged.

I personally feel that players should all have an even playing ground, and even if this exploit is minor, it would be nice if a practical solution was found to render it useless.

I still don't understand why others feel they should keep this advantage over other players in the first place.

scottee wrote:

This thread is like watching two people who speak different languages have an argument that devolves into a knife fight that devolves into a chainsaw fight that turns into looking for translators because no one can read the instructions for the chainsaws. Everyone gets bloodied and nobody wins.

I can agree with this

Tannen

sigh. Why is this still an argument?

I use Line. I chat with alliance members on Line. It's fun. What I don't do on Line though, is use it for anything other than chatting. I don't join any of the BCs on Line. I don't shield check / announce on Line. I do, however, wait for ~10ish minutes or more for high point targets to re-shield (so that I don't hit someone unshielded). I do skip while I'm shielded looking for high point targets.

I hit 1k points pretty much every pvp. I hit 1.3k points when I want to. You know what stops me hitting 1.3k points? Generally it's my own apathy for the 4* cover at that score or occasionally out of game dramas. As a far more general note, dry slices can also cause issues hitting 1.3k.

Do I care that other people are using a chat program to "get more/easier points"? No. Do I think that the chat program is an "exploit"? No. Do I think that this whole thing is overblown and needs to end? Yes.

I've seen your roster. I literally just looked it up to see what you were working with. It's better than mine (seriously, look mine up). Even if it wasn't, you have a 250 5/5/3 HB and a 166 3/5/5 IF. Those two alone will get you to 1.3k. So when you come onto the forums complaining about not being able to hit 1.3k and blaming Line the only thing that I can assume is that you're doing this for attention. You've found yourself a cause, and you're going to ride it for all it's worth. There have been actual, helpful, point by point posts on how to make 1.3k, and you've dismissed them because they don't agree that Line is the root of the problem.

So, let me say it plainly. There is nothing about your roster stopping you from hitting all the 1.3k's that you want. Hitting 1.3k has literally nothing to do with Line. You can (I do) hit 1.3k without using Line to coordinate at all. All Line (potentially) does is help you find higher point targets. If you can't hit 1.3k without Line, you're not going to hit 1.3k with Line. The problem is not Line, and it never was. Using Line does not mean that you make an automatic 1.3k points. Line isn't some sort of super club or exploit, it's simply an application that people use to chat to each other (and sometimes send tasteless nudes, but that's another story).

Let the crusade against it go. Please.

- T

lokiagentofhotness

Dauthi wrote:

acescracked wrote:

Omega Red wrote:

I can hit 1000 and 1300 progression. I don't use line and I'm not even a member of any alliance. Everything you need to know on how to hit top progression rewards is -and always has been- widely available in this message board. Whiners seem to refuse to get it and they greatly misunderstand and overestimate the role of offline communication in the metagame.

Best. Post. Ever!

Thank you. Too bad dauthi and his sidekick sagpro will ignore it.

Ironic you say that when the post completely ignores all the points being made against the exploit, and further cements this by calling the opposing side "whiners."

The facts are that using out of game communication to coordinate shield hops is an exploit as noted by Ice. Ice also stated they would like it if players didn't use the exploit, but they will not punish them.

The exploit gives a few players an advantage. Now I have seen the opposing side claim the advantage is big, and the players who score tons of points need it so they can trickle it down to everyone. I have also seen it said that the advantage is small, downplaying it. The consensus however is that there is an advantage given through using it. Even the devs can see this, which is why it is discouraged.

I personally feel that players should all have an even playing ground, and even if this exploit is minor, it would be nice if a practical solution was found to render it useless.

I still don't understand why others feel they should keep this advantage over other players in the first place.

i'm sorry you were banned from line or communicating with your alliance mates, dude. must be tough.