Highest PVP scores being promoted by D3

atomzed

IceIX wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

ICE referred to the act as exploiting with his last sentence, so I don't know Regardless there wouldn't be any way to catch/stop this act.

Not exploiting as in breaking game rules/we're going to ban you, but exploiting as in the true definition; Taking advantage of flaws in a system for full benefit.

IceIX, I thank you for responding to this thread. I am also glad that the dev are aware of the potential knock on effect with any shield change (which I have posted in another thread).

I only hope that the solutions you generated will not negatively impact the general player population. The top players will always be able to and find ways to exploit the system.

Edit: typo.

Dauthi

atomzed wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

ICE referred to the act as exploiting with his last sentence, so I don't know Regardless there wouldn't be any way to catch/stop this act.

Not exploiting as in breaking game rules/we're going to ban you, but exploiting as in the true definition; Taking advantage of flaws in a system for full benefit.

IceIX, I thank you for responding to this thread. I am also glad that the dev are aware of the potential knock on effect with any shield change (which I have posted in another thread).

I only know that the solutions you generated will not negatively impact the general player population. The top players will always be able to and find ways to exploit the system.

Before today, there were debates whether this was in fact an exploit. I'm just glad we can all agree that it is. It can now be known players shouldn't be proud that they use it, let alone belittle others for not using it. Most importantly, that it should be fixed.

atomzed

Dauthi wrote:

atomzed wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

ICE referred to the act as exploiting with his last sentence, so I don't know Regardless there wouldn't be any way to catch/stop this act.

Not exploiting as in breaking game rules/we're going to ban you, but exploiting as in the true definition; Taking advantage of flaws in a system for full benefit.

IceIX, I thank you for responding to this thread. I am also glad that the dev are aware of the potential knock on effect with any shield change (which I have posted in another thread).

I only know that the solutions you generated will not negatively impact the general player population. The top players will always be able to and find ways to exploit the system.

Before today, there were debates whether this was in fact an exploit. I'm just glad we can all agree that it is. It can now be known players shouldn't be proud that they use it, let alone belittle others for not using it. Most importantly, that it should be fixed.

*Cough* dauthi, I am afraid that you are not reading Iceix comments properly.

Sure, you can feel smug about iceix saying that it is an "exploit".

On the other hand, you can also see that iceix is aware that any solutions that attempt to "fix" the situation, can also harm the general population better.

So far, there has been no satisfactory solution that can fix the "exploit" without harming the general population.

atomzed

Dauthi, since you are obviously not reading ICEIX comments, let me break it down for you.

IceIX wrote:

Not exploiting as in breaking game rules/we're going to ban you, but exploiting as in the true definition; Taking advantage of flaws in a system for full benefit.

Yes, Iceix has mentioned that the shield hopping "exploit" is not in the "true spirit" of the shield system.

On the other hand, he also said this:-

IceIX wrote:

Right now, a perfectly valid strategy is to climb higher than your equilibrium (say 800 points when your unshielded equilibrium is 600) then shield. Wait a few hours (maybe even the full 8 or the next day?) for people to beat against your high point shield that still had you queued. Then unshield, fight some more, put it back up to end out the Event (or start another longer hop).

In here, he is explaining that the shield system allows someone to go beyond his equilibrium score. Or to "punch above his weight".

Massive shield hop relies on this most basic form, except that it requires more coordination between multiple parties.

Now is this something that is totally and absolutely undesirable? Not quite, as you can see from this iceix quote:-

IceIX wrote:

Yes, it's true that scores would deflate and that we could adjust based off that. But there's also a player engagement factor to take into account here that would change things up quite a bit. It's far more complex than even this....

*cut for length*

No-one likes being Sisyphus. Putting in something that actively stops shield hopping stands a good chance of making *everyone* into Sisyphus. When people feel that they're just rolling boulders uphill, they stop rolling. And if more people stop trying, less points get injected overall.

In the post above, it's clear that iceix feels that the shield hopping mechanics increase player engagement, and provides an avenue for people to roll the boulder up the slope.

And finally, iceix admits that while the current system is not perfect, any changes to shield *can* cause a lot of unintended consequences.

IceIX wrote:

Not saying that the current system is the be all, end all, of how we want Versus to run. Just that we have a lot of variables to balance out and we don't want to make changes that will directly affect a core of players that will then roll down-hill towards others in quite possibly unexpected fashions. It's a tough nut to decisively crack.

As you can see from all the quotes from Iceix in this thread alone, he didn't say that it should be eradicated... Because the "solution" may be worse than the "problem". (If it even is consider a problem).

Dauthi

atomzed wrote:

Dauthi, since you are obviously not reading ICEIX comments, let me break it down for you.

Despite what you may think, I can in fact read, if that is what you are trying to assert. If I couldn't I probably wouldn't be on these forums.

IceIX wrote:

Not exploiting as in breaking game rules/we're going to ban you, but exploiting as in the true definition; Taking advantage of flaws in a system for full benefit.

Yes, Iceix has mentioned that the shield hopping "exploit" is not in the "true spirit" of the shield system.

On the other hand, he also said this:-

IceIX wrote:

Right now, a perfectly valid strategy is to climb higher than your equilibrium (say 800 points when your unshielded equilibrium is 600) then shield. Wait a few hours (maybe even the full 8 or the next day?) for people to beat against your high point shield that still had you queued. Then unshield, fight some more, put it back up to end out the Event (or start another longer hop).

In here, he is explaining that the shield system allows someone to go beyond his equilibrium score. Or to "punch above his weight".

Massive shield hop relies on this most basic form, except that it requires more coordination between multiple parties.

There is a difference between going from 600 to 900(ish) and shielding in his example (which is plausible WITHOUT outside communication) and players going from 1300 to 2400 points thanks to outside communication. With a difference of 300 vs 1100, I feel this is a bit of a stretch.

As you can see from all the quotes from Iceix in this thread alone, he didn't say that it should be eradicated... Because the "solution" may be worse than the "problem". (If it even is consider a problem).

There are always solutions, and the developers are searching for one to solve this. Just because they haven't found it, doesn't mean they want you to exploit their game, if this is what you are trying to say.

acescracked

Dauthi wrote:

lukewin wrote:

BillyBobJoe wrote:

1) Could someone explain what the "problem", is with shield hopping?
2) Why is out of game communication so bad?

Some people believe that because the 1300 pt reward is there that it should be obtainable by everyone. I am not one of those people. I grab my 1k, and call it a day.

A lot of people have figured out how to get it via shield hopping. Some people use the method, some don't want to use those methods. Some that don't want anyone to use those methods, crusade to try to get it removed for everyone. It's not fair to them, if there are methods out there that people use but they choose not to, so instead of sucking it up and moving on, they want the game to cater to their style of play.

The truth of the matter is for those not using out of game communication, obtaining 1300 is extremely difficult when you get lucky, and unobtainable without it. If using this communication makes it easier to get 1300, D3 is seeing the wrong numbers because that many people shouldn't be hitting 1300. Because of this, I also grab my 1k and move on.

On a side note, is it really a part of the game? For some reason, I just don't see it anywhere when I open MPQ!

Stop it man, really please stop spreading this falsehood. There are many players that hit 1300 or higher using *zero* out of game communication. A few in my alliance, a few in a-force that I know of. Of course the majority of players hitting 1300 have a very good roster but what did you expect.

I used to do it in the sentry\hood days before I joined S.H.I.E.L.D. I could easily hit 1300 just fistbusting it using zero communication now.

Just because you can't hit 1300 without being in a BC doesn't mean nobody can do it. I only use bc so I won't hit others I like unshielded. That doesn't help me since I climb late.

Yes, I've gotten a few lucky queues but 95% of my queues come the old skip method. I have all Line notifications turned off and I only goto the room to announce my status. I'm not in there any other time.

Gotta stop hating on something you really don't understand.

Moon Roach

lukewin wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

You could learn anything from a guide by playing the game yourself and gaining experience/learning. I imagine many out there who are not of the forums can't figure out how players are hitting such incredible scores consistently. You can't learn that you need to join the forums and get on Line to coordinate hops.

These things are not really comparable.

There's nothing stopping anyone from joining the forums and getting on LINE to coordinate hops, other than a personal choice not to do so. Links to the forums are in the game.

A link to this forum doesn't exist in the Steam version. There's a separate forum where two of the most recent threads are about the server outage. And there's a Group Chat with no one taking part. Wow, there's even Broadcasts! I wonder how they work...

Dauthi

acescracked wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

The truth of the matter is for those not using out of game communication, obtaining 1300 is extremely difficult when you get lucky, and unobtainable without it. If using this communication makes it easier to get 1300, D3 is seeing the wrong numbers because that many people shouldn't be hitting 1300. Because of this, I also grab my 1k and move on.

On a side note, is it really a part of the game? For some reason, I just don't see it anywhere when I open MPQ!

Stop it man, really please stop spreading this falsehood. There are many players that hit 1300 or higher using *zero* out of game communication. A few in my alliance, a few in a-force that I know of. Of course the majority of players hitting 1300 have a very good roster but what did you expect.

I used to do it in the sentry\hood days before I joined S.H.I.E.L.D. I could easily hit 1300 just fistbusting it using zero communication now.

Just because you can't hit 1300 without being in a BC doesn't mean nobody can do it. I only use bc so I won't hit others I like unshielded. That doesn't help me since I climb late.

It's not just me that can't consistently do it, it's 4-5 others in my alliance with similar rosters that can't. I am not talking from just personal experience, but everyone who has ever existed in my top 100 alliance of 1 and 1/2 years. It is entirely possible, but there are so many factors that can prohibit your movement, for example time slices or random chance. I have personally tried for 1300, and seen my own members try for 1300, only to waste hundreds of HP because valid targets never show up. This makes it inefficient to even try. This of course is not the case if you coordinate hops.

atomzed

Dauthi wrote:

Despite what you may think, I can in fact read, if that is what you are trying to assert. If I couldn't I probably wouldn't be on these forums.

You are reading, but not understanding the points made by Iceix.

I am not even referring to my own posts, but specifically Iceix in this thread only. In your persistent biasness, you continue to think that extremely high scoring (due to outside comms) needs to be reined in.

Iceix has said in this post that this is not necessarily the case.

IceIX wrote:

Right now, there's enormous volatility at the high end of things; Players can hit 1700 and drop 200 of those points down through big chunks to people lower on the totem pole. These top end players, meanwhile, take that in stride as a "failed shield hop" and regain those 200 points on another hop or two. These points can and do "trickle down" every single Versus Tourney. As well, a surprising amount of people hit the 1K/1.3K progressions and then "run naked" and let their points drop. More high value points to the system. If shield hopping weren't a thing, those high end points would maybe possibly be topping out at 1.3-1.5K instead of 2.5K. Less to go around at the high end to trickle, less for the progression runners to get and then let drain away. This is something that could be largely fixed by tweaking progressions, but it would also necessarily lower the top end and make that top placement more arduous to get. We'd likely see most T10s separated by 150 points or less. Rough.

Look at the quote, especially the one in bold.

Those high scorers will leak points to the system. Which helps everyone to get more points.

Dauthi wrote:

There is a difference between going from 600 to 900(ish) and shielding in his example (which is plausible WITHOUT outside communication) and players going from 1300 to 2400 points thanks to outside communication. With a difference of 300 vs 1100, I feel this is a bit of a stretch.

It doesn't matter that the shield hop is for 100 points, or for 1000 points. The shield hop mechanics remains the same. Hence, any change to the shield hop mechanics will impact those at the top and those at the bottom.

Dauthi wrote:

There are always solutions, and the developers are searching for one to solve this. Just because they haven't found it, doesn't mean they want you to exploit their game, if this is what you are trying to say.

Again, you are being steadfastly bias in your perspective. Yes, iceix said that they are looking at it, but he also said that

IceIX wrote:

It's a tough nut to decisively crack.

And finally, iceix admits that while the current system is not perfect, any changes to shield *can* cause a lot of unintended consequences.

IceIX wrote:

Just that we have a lot of variables to balance out and we don't want to make changes that will directly affect a core of players that will then roll down-hill towards others in quite possibly unexpected fashions.

On the other hand, Dauthi, you have shown yourself to be unable to comprehend the intricacies of the situation, and keep insisting that it must be "solved", without acknowledging that the solution can cause problems.

I am so glad that Iceix has spoke up(partly thanks to you), because in these posts, he has revealed that he understand all the intricacies of the situation. I am certain that they will not be swayed by your constant calls to cull shield hopping.

ThatOneGuyjp189512

with a game as big as MPQ, i'm pretty sure the devs expected that there be some kind of interalliance coordination outside of the game and forums, it'd be really stupid on their to think there wouldn't be. No matter what game you play, there'll always be a select few groups of people that dominate, it's just the equilibrium of any game.

acescracked

Dauthi wrote:

...
It's not just me that can't consistently do it, it's 4-5 others in my alliance with similar rosters that can't. I am not talking from just personal experience, but everyone who has ever existed in my top 100 alliance of 1 and 1/2 years. It is entirely possible, but there are so many factors that can prohibit your movement, for example time slices or random chance. I have personally tried for 1300, and seen my own members try for 1300, only to waste hundreds of HP because valid targets never show up. This makes it inefficient to even try. This of course is not the case if you coordinate hops.

Random chance..pfft. I looked at your roster and you should be able to hit 1300 with nothing but the old college try.

Step 1 - join slice 1 or 4 only! (This is the most important step)

Step 2 - with 17 or so hours left climb to 650 to 700 and float

Step 3 - once health packs back to 10 and with 13 hours left push as high as you can until you run out of packs. From step 2 above you'll have some retal nodes; only hit the ones that are tough teams or you know their scores by seeing them on leadboard. Skip around hitting only teams worth 50 points or more. Trust me, in s1 or s4 you'll find em (just hope you don't piss off x or villians, lol). Out of packs 3 hour shield - hopefully you are around high 1000 or low 1100.

Step 4 - during the 3 hour shield randomly do skips until you find 3 good queues of 60 points or more.

Step 5 - 3 hr shield expires do two boosted matches. Since it's around the 10 hour mark you can gamble for 3 matches if the first two went really fast. 8 hour shield. Should be around 1200.

Step 6 - during the 8 hour shield randomly do skips till you find 65 or higher queues. This late in the event they will be out there eventually.

Step 7 - Less than 2 hours left gets tricky now. Need two matches to get above 1300. Dangerous to do two unless first one goes fast. If you don't get two have to do one now and one with 4 mins left. Bingo 1300!

Option - you can start earlier and burn an extra shield to absorb a bad hop or take less risk later.

I'm sure with your mpq experience you know all the steps. It just appears you've missed the most important step...step 1.

Good luck!

aesthetocyst

acescracked wrote:

Step 1 - join slice 1 or 4 only! (This is the most important step)

This gets back to my question about dropping slices earlier. The difference between competitive, well-informed, realistic players and hapless amateurs?

Picking a slice based on potential scores rather then convenient end time. Priorities, priorities.

Who cares if the good slice ends at a bad time? The final hours are a terrible time to be active anyway. Just plan to finish with a few hours to go.

As Aces has described, to hit higher scores, particularly with a 3* roster, you may have to play those final hours anyway, make a few more hops. As you get stronger, it gets easier.

Malcrof

aesthetocyst wrote:

acescracked wrote:

Step 1 - join slice 1 or 4 only! (This is the most important step)

This gets back to my question about dropping slices earlier. The difference between competitive, well-informed, realistic players and hapless amateurs?

Picking a slice based on potential scores rather then convenient end time. Priorities, priorites.

Who cares i the good slice ends at a bad time? The final hours are a terrible time to be active anyway. Just plan to finish with a few hours to go.

As Aces has described, to hit higher scores, particularly with a 3* roster, you may have to play those final hours anyway. make a few more hops. As you get stronger, it gets easier.

The advice about which slice to enter is the biggest thing i learned about PVP, 6 times i have hit 1k now.. and i have 0 usable 4*s, and barely 10 166's.. so it can be done.

over_clocked

This got so old already! There are several players in Django alone that don't use any kind of cooperation via LINE except maybe to learn about high-scoring slices (although slices 1 and 2 are always reliable), and still hit 1300 anytime they please.
What's their secret? I'll tell you!
Shocker - but they have developed their rosters to the point where they can hit 1300. They have a slew of well-rounded 3*s and a couple fully covered 4*s such as X-Force Wolverine, Goddess, Hulkbuster or Professor X. Hulkbuster is the only 4* you _need_ for PvP these days, anyway. Those aren't maxed, most of the time. Still, a developed 3* roster can usually hit all progressions in a good slice.
But more than that, the only reason our alliance mates can do that without any sort of battle chatting of their own is precisely because those high-scoring alliances like X-Men, Crewsaders, Villains, NJusticeLeague, etc. do use LINE extensively and drive scores up in the slices.
Edit: They know when to start climbing, when to switch teams from 3*s to 4*s, when to shield, when to queue, when to unshield, how many fights to do, what boosts to use, etc, etc. They have a good understanding of the meta. And this will always be there. I'm honestly surprised, Dauthi, that you have a hard time hitting 1300 on your own with that roster. Try joining reliable slices only. You can always ask your alliance mates in the game chat what kind of brackets they have in their slices, too.

Unknown

acescracked wrote:

Step 3 - once health packs back to 10 and with 13 hours left push as high as you can until you run out of packs. From step 2 above you'll have some retal nodes; only hit the ones that are tough teams or you know their scores by seeing them on leadboard. Skip around hitting only teams worth 50 points or more. Trust me, in s1 or s4 you'll find em (just hope you don't piss off x or villians, lol). Out of packs 3 hour shield - hopefully you are around high 1000 or low 1100.

Step 4 - during the 3 hour shield randomly do skips until you find 3 good queues of 60 points or more.

I typically don't see such a thing. I am beginning to believe that I am nothing more than a farm team anyway. Yesterday, I attacked someone who I freshly queued up at 47. The fight was over very quick thanks to some good SW pink seeds. HOWEVER, the points awarded was 17-18, can't recall which. That's just plain nasty. That person must be on the verge of posting in the forum about getting whacked for 100+ points in 2 minutes.

BTW, in sim, the scores you mention are possible. In PvP, I just don't see it ever. I would suspect that if I do see it, based on how I understand those points to be rated, the team I would see would be so completely undesirable for me to challenge.

I play the way IceX describes, hit above my equilibrium, shield. queue up some targets. blast one more time and shield to the end. i've already learned to not be visible in the last 3 hours of a PvP. that's just some nasty spam when I am typically fighting the current PvE.

simonsez

Dauthi wrote:

It's not just me that can't consistently do it, it's 4-5 others in my alliance with similar rosters that can't

I'm pretty sure this has EVERYTHING to do with the shard you're choosing, and NOTHING to do with your unwillingness to use LINE.

TheOncomingStorm

Myth: Line chat is the reason for really high scores.

Fact: Line allows high scores without forcing alliances to build around high scorers. There are certain alliances that are built to a degree around having higher scorers that could get high scores just using in-game chat. What Line does is allow alliances to be built any way you want whether it's a group of players obsessed over Patch, a group of lawyers, a group of forumites, or a group that couldn't fit chimichangas (however you spell it) into the their ideal alliance name.

Truth: Line is better for the game because they make alliances more fun in that it permits more freedom in choosing members based on who they are, not what they score.

P.S. I9 did say exploit, but if you read the context, it's an exploit in a sense that "ideally" MPQ wanted PVP to be a "king of the hill" type of event. However, that was before Alliances were added to the game. Out of game communication could go away tomorrow, but as long as there are alliances, pvp will never be "ideal" because the game is now alliance versus alliance just as much as it is player versus player.

What does this mean? It means pvp coordination is not an exploit, it is the natural consequence of having alliances. That's like saying setting an alarm clock for pve is an exploit. Everyone has access to it, the game is set up so that is helpful, but people who do not as well others will always have to find something or someone to point a finger at. So instead of their alarm, they'll say people using them are exploiting the system.

SnowcaTT

1K I can easily do without communication, a whole thread about how rosters with only 3* can do it.

1300 I agree - I don't think I can do this without communication - unless I have a boosted/max 4* that week. When you have that, 1300 is possible and I see it done without communication by several of my alliance mates. That might be the intention, the extra 4* only going to those who already have most of the 4*'s?

I've said forever a "solution" to the line "problem" is simply remove the names of all players you fight against. A solution that would work while still allowing "some" coordination is remove the names of everyone that isn't in your alliance: this means mega-alliances get shut down, but 20's still see each other and hop with each other. Except there is -always- a way around it. The big alliances already often go out in sets of attackers all at once, they'll get Q's, make sure everyone is shielded, and only attack those Q's all at once. Or suddenly there will be threads wondering why they see so many 2/3/2 level 33 bagman on rosters....

And now a line user.....I don't recommend any of these changes. For some reason.

donietsche

Dauthi wrote:

atomzed wrote:

There is a difference between going from 600 to 900(ish) and shielding in his example (which is plausible WITHOUT outside communication) and players going from 1300 to 2400 points thanks to outside communication. With a difference of 300 vs 1100, I feel this is a bit of a stretch.

Yes, there's a difference: the amount of shields used to do so, and/or the time dedicated to building your points during the 2+ days of the event.

I really don't see why a few players feel damaged by the fact that some folks hit higher scores than they do. They want to beat their personal records? They have fun doing risky hops together? They want to brag about that with other folks? You're definitely not affected by that.


Outside of the game coordination/communication is the cornerstone of any kind of team-based multiplayer experience (from fps to strategic games): take it away, and you don't have an endgame (or some sort of endgame), nor real strategy other than "strike random people hoping to win shiny prizes" (or score points).

Games are supposed to be "exploited", in a sense (as IceIX said): you need to push beyond the boundaries and limits shown by the game in its original or plain vanilla form (i.e., terrible in game communications, first of all). That's why mods have become one of the greatest assets in the competitive fps community. As long as those resources are available to anyone (you can download LINE or similar apps right now). Of course, real exploits (unfair use of a bug, or cheating) must be punished (there's no room for tolerance).

Sometimes, even bugs can become a feature: whoever has played the quake series knows that strafe jumping was nothing more than a bug.

If you can't hit t1 now (that's the only drawback of the competition against structured alliances or folks who use BC), for sure you won't be able to hit t1 in a future where players can play the game only if they sign a paper where they give up their right to communicate, in any form whatsoever, with other people, or where one can use only 3 shields per event.


And the competition for t1 (which usually requires a certain degree of coordination or planning) is the only real "drawback" of the current system (for the so called casual players). t5/t10 and the reward progressions are within reach of everyone who's willing to put some effort into it.

Progression rewards are (way) harder to get in "madmax world" slices (slices not populated by organized players). Just like it is during off season events. Bottom line is: be careful what you wish for, lest it come true.

moogles85

acescracked wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

...
It's not just me that can't consistently do it, it's 4-5 others in my alliance with similar rosters that can't. I am not talking from just personal experience, but everyone who has ever existed in my top 100 alliance of 1 and 1/2 years. It is entirely possible, but there are so many factors that can prohibit your movement, for example time slices or random chance. I have personally tried for 1300, and seen my own members try for 1300, only to waste hundreds of HP because valid targets never show up. This makes it inefficient to even try. This of course is not the case if you coordinate hops.

Random chance..pfft. I looked at your roster and you should be able to hit 1300 with nothing but the old college try.

Step 1 - join slice 1 or 4 only! (This is the most important step)

Step 2 - with 17 or so hours left climb to 650 to 700 and float

Step 3 - once health packs back to 10 and with 13 hours left push as high as you can until you run out of packs. From step 2 above you'll have some retal nodes; only hit the ones that are tough teams or you know their scores by seeing them on leadboard. Skip around hitting only teams worth 50 points or more. Trust me, in s1 or s4 you'll find em (just hope you don't piss off x or villians, lol). Out of packs 3 hour shield - hopefully you are around high 1000 or low 1100.

Step 4 - during the 3 hour shield randomly do skips until you find 3 good queues of 60 points or more.

Step 5 - 3 hr shield expires do two boosted matches. Since it's around the 10 hour mark you can gamble for 3 matches if the first two went really fast. 8 hour shield. Should be around 1200.

Step 6 - during the 8 hour shield randomly do skips till you find 65 or higher queues. This late in the event they will be out there eventually.

Step 7 - Less than 2 hours left gets tricky now. Need two matches to get above 1300. Dangerous to do two unless first one goes fast. If you don't get two have to do one now and one with 4 mins left. Bingo 1300!

Option - you can start earlier and burn an extra shield to absorb a bad hop or take less risk later.

I'm sure with your mpq experience you know all the steps. It just appears you've missed the most important step...step 1.

Good luck!

1300 is definitely possible without any LINE communication - and this is the pretty much the approach I take. Although I'd only aim for 1300 when there is a worthwhile 4* reward (ie. Thing, JG, XDP), which I've hit multiple times in Shard 1 (I think the other shards are more dry), but usually at the expense of 3-6 shield hops. Push to 1k for first shield, then 1.1k, 1.2k, 1.3k.

There is definitely more luck involved (ie. finding the high value targets) but you can still find them in game without being in a chat with them. Sure it makes it much easier if you know when they are un-shielding so you can queue them, but I just keep skipping every 10-15 minutes until someone pops up. And sure, I spend more ISO skipping but at least I can still find them eventually and yes, sometimes I fail because their teams are always lvl 350 4*s but it's always worth the points if you win.

I must say, if Villians weren't playing in Shard 1 and getting such large points, I doubt I'd be able to hit 1300 without more shield hops. My apologies if I ever hit you guys while you were in the middle of a hop.