Black Widow (Original) - 2*

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Comments

  • PegasusTR wrote:
    if she 3* chars is ok but 2* and better than hulk,senrty and more good marvel chars

    Some d3 crew like a lot of her
    Better than Sentry? Someone must not have experienced Sentry if you think that is the case and Hulk is only an average 3* these days so the best 2* (and one of the best overall support char) beating him out is hardly surprising.
  • hurcules wrote:
    I noticed Espionage animation resolves much faster now (used have be half a second longer on tile-matches with Espionage). Perhaps the mid-air crit tile match feature/bug has been fixed too?


    Nope, criticals still exploding in mid air
  • Spoit
    Spoit Posts: 3,441 Chairperson of the Boards
    MikeHock wrote:
    hurcules wrote:
    I noticed Espionage animation resolves much faster now (used have be half a second longer on tile-matches with Espionage). Perhaps the mid-air crit tile match feature/bug has been fixed too?


    Nope, criticals still exploding in mid air
    Give them a few months, after all, DU_will only found out about it recently
  • Unknown
    edited September 2014
    I have been feeling lately that OBW is simply too powerful for a ** toon. Specifically, having two abilities that steal AP is too strong, and combined with her healing, she is better than every other two star, and even a handful of three star characters. I've definitely lost a fair number of battles simply because I could not kill her fast enough (before she gets her purple ability off). So what should we do? That leads to my suggestion.

    Change her purple ability to an offensive damage move. Something that damages the target + stun for x amount of turns would be fine, so long as the damage is not excessive, and the number of turns stunned is not too high. I'm not the best person to decide how much these numbers should be, but clearly she shouldn't be doing as much damage as characters like Thor, Ares and Wolverine. Maybe damage comparable to Ares red power, but only to the target with a stun effect attached doesn't seem unreasonable.

    The way things are currently, OBW is too oppressive. There have already been a couple of attempts to fix her, but I feel the problem lies with her fundamental design. I think we can do better to find a balance that still leaves us with a strong support character to play with, but doesn't completely swing a battle with an 8 AP cost "support" ability.
  • I used OBW to heal me some damage and it actually increased the enemy Colossus Immovable Object timer!

    Is that intended? As OBW in this case is helping the enemy...

    Or maybe it's all just a big russian conspiracy...hm...Black Widow and Colossus, who would have thought? icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • I don't know if it was an intent of the devs but I like it. Makes for an interesting strategical dillema.

    And if they're going to start using countdown tiles to limit beneficial powers a feature going forward it could be even more interesting.
  • JamieMadrox
    JamieMadrox Posts: 1,798 Chairperson of the Boards
    OBW's AGD increases all enemy timers regardless of if it will help them or not. It's just how it works so use it wisely.
  • Cragger
    Cragger Posts: 316 Mover and Shaker
    It felt pretty good to Throw that Immovable Object timer out there when I noticed my opponent OBW collected enough blue to heal. She only had 4 covers, so didn't half heal either.

    Then the game glitched on me and wolverine (astonishing) used feral claws on me for five turns straight... but that another post.

    I'd like to use good old Bagman with 5-yellow Colossus to make an impenetrable steel wall. Too bad both are yellow and you could win the game in many other ways faster.
  • They already needed her twice. Leave that tinny kitty alone.
  • Just got a few covers to max her any way I'd like (5/4/4 with a blue and black cover), what do you guys think about OBW in the current meta? I got 4 lvl 86 ** characters and I play a mix of PvP and PvE.
  • MarcusGraves
    MarcusGraves Posts: 495 Mover and Shaker
    gazgaz wrote:
    Just got a few covers to max her any way I'd like (5/4/4 with a blue and black cover), what do you guys think about OBW in the current meta? I got 4 lvl 86 ** characters and I play a mix of PvP and PvE.

    OBW in her current state will be invaluable in any meta of the game as long as they don't change her again, really stick to 3/5/5 because you really do want aggressive recon at 8 cost to be able to use it in 2 purple matches if the enemy has purple AP. I see OBW's with maxed out AR in PvP more than I should and they are just easy to beat since it takes AI longer to pull it off.

    3/5/5 works in both PvP and PvE flawlessly
  • She's the one 2* char that will help you the most in that 3* transition. Why would you want to change that? It is not super difficult to kill her in PVP. You just need the right combo. Like MNMags+CStorm will take her down before she can even blink.
  • Indeedy, asking to nerf the character that will help you transition sometime later down the road is not very wise.
    If you have trouble killing oBW... I have some questions to ask.
    Do you bring your own oBW, preferably built 3/5/5? She's the best counter to herself among 2*s, but not the only one.
    Do you target oBW first? She is potentially more dangerous than cStorm, so choosing between these two depends on your skill and ability to time your damage.
    Your options to kill oBW when at the 2* stage include Ares (quick green), mHawkeye (pray for a lucky board in the very beginning), baby Daken (match green, match blue, Chemical Reaction, done), A.Wolvie (match green/red, spam strike tiles), a combination of those. As mentioned, MMN/cStorm also work since they can do something with the purple/blue AP they deny.
    Everyone has to play through this stage and learn how to deal with the AP steal. Later you will encounter an even more dangerous AP thief, the Hood. Spoiler alert: he can steal AP every single turn, in multiple colours. Good news: he belongs to an even squishier health class than oBW, so learn to deal with squishy but dangerous foes now.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    gazgaz wrote:
    Just got a few covers to max her any way I'd like (5/4/4 with a blue and black cover), what do you guys think about OBW in the current meta? I got 4 lvl 86 ** characters and I play a mix of PvP and PvE.
    I have a 4/5/4 OBW, serves me well. Steals 4 of each color but purple, has full healing potential, and still double dips on strike tiles. I don't find the small amount of damaged added by 5th black to matter all that much when it comes down to it.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think it's a mistake to go anything but 3/5/5 in PvP. Every single time I face an OBW who matches 2 purple against me, I gulp as I look at their character sheet. 75% of the time, I let out a huge sigh of relief as her recon is more than level 3, and proceed to killing her before she ever gets level 4+ recon. The 25% of the time where it's 3/5/5, I sigh as the enemy proceeds to recon me and cast an ability to damage my team. The difference between 2-match 3s and 3 match-3s can be like 4-5 turns for the AI, so 8AP recon is really the only way to go if you want your OBW to be scary on defense.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,213 Chairperson of the Boards
    Depending on the new rankings, (I don't expect OBW to drop too much further in the rankings) OBW does need a nerf. The fact that of how many 2* characters out there, that she still ranks above most 3* characters does indicate she is a bit broken. Sure, most 3* line-ups can crush her via match damage before she becomes too much of a threat. As a 1* or 2* transitioning player she is very hard to counter. Offering countering OBW with OBW is not proof of her unbrokenness.

    OBW does need either a nerf or a few other options in the 1* & 2* range as a proper counter to her. Someone who can generate cheap countdown tiles (perhaps on matches) to prevent her from getting the full benefit of Anti-Gravity would help. Someone who damages based on opposing AP could be interesting as well, that would turn her AP steal to a liability, especially if her team can't use all the AP they are collecting. Heck, make it a single ability.

    Passive (insert interesting name here)
    Each time (character) matches (color), generates a 1 turn count down tile that does x damage for all unused AP the opposing team has.

    I'm not talking a huge amount of damage, but enough that AP stolen and unused becomes an increasing liability.
  • mjh
    mjh Posts: 708 Critical Contributor
    I think it's a mistake to go anything but 3/5/5 in PvP. Every single time I face an OBW who matches 2 purple against me, I gulp as I look at their character sheet. 75% of the time, I let out a huge sigh of relief as her recon is more than level 3, and proceed to killing her before she ever gets level 4+ recon. The 25% of the time where it's 3/5/5, I sigh as the enemy proceeds to recon me and cast an ability to damage my team. The difference between 2-match 3s and 3 match-3s can be like 4-5 turns for the AI, so 8AP recon is really the only way to go if you want your OBW to be scary on defense.
    I couldn't have summed this up better myself icon_cool.gif
  • I never have any problem with beating her and I don't own any maxed 3* chars. My favorite pairs are MN Mags-Mawkeye(I think this pair is even stronger than CStorm pair), MN Mags-CStorm, Ares(Thor)-OBW. There are other pairs that I can use but usually I run out of energy after using these. Just don't let her collect purple and kill her first and fast. I don't think she needs a nerf. You need to get your guys leveled.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,213 Chairperson of the Boards
    KevinMark wrote:
    I never have any problem with beating her and I don't own any maxed 3* chars. My favorite pairs are MN Mags-Mawkeye(I think this pair is even stronger than CStorm pair), MN Mags-CStorm, Ares(Thor)-OBW. There are other pairs that I can use but usually I run out of energy after using these. Just don't let her collect purple and kill her first and fast. I don't think she needs a nerf. You need to get your guys leveled.

    I'm out of the 3* transition and fully into a maxed 3* roster, and OBW still causes problems if she is left to her own devices. You are right, if you deny Purple and focus on her first, she can be defeated before she becomes too much of a problem. Sometimes purple denial isn't an option though (Bullseye), and Anti-Gravity shouldn't be ignored either.

    M.Hawkeye's new abilities work very well with M.Mags, and that pair can be very effective together. But that is a bit of an exception of a particular pair working exceptionally well together, & being a color combo that works well to take away the Purple and Blue lifeblood of OBW.

    I am glad you have found such a powerful combo to take down OBW, what will you do in PvE when you face M.Mags, M.Hawkeye, & OBW?
  • oBW was already nerfed twice icon_rolleyes.gif First with the fake healing introduction and then even more with the level shift.
    oBW _is_ indeed much better than marginal 3*s like Daredevil/Beast/Loki/etc, but so is cStorm, or Ares. No one fields oBW competitively once they have a couple of core 3* characters, she's just out of her league with her tiny health pool. She's invaluable for 2*s and for everyone in PvE. Doesn't make her need a nerf.