Black Widow (Original) - 2*

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  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Looking for advice in this brave new post true Healing world for oBW.

    I currently have her built 3/5/5 and pre-TH loved it. Quick steals, healing with or without countdowns and full double attacks. Never thought to build her any other way.

    Post-TH, I find that I rarely use her blue. If I have another Blue user (Storm, Featured PvP) I will save it for them. While she is a valuable member of my transition team, I do not use the blue as I used to. I am considering a switch to either a 5/4/4 or a 5/3/5 build.

    I am looking for advice from the forum. Thanks in advance.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I still keep her at 3/5/5 as I want to be able to steal AP ASAP. Also, being able to temporarily heal even with CD's around can sometimes be a life saver in PVE.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    papa07 wrote:
    Looking for advice in this brave new post true Healing world for oBW.

    I currently have her built 3/5/5 and pre-TH loved it. Quick steals, healing with or without countdowns and full double attacks. Never thought to build her any other way.

    Post-TH, I find that I rarely use her blue. If I have another Blue user (Storm, Featured PvP) I will save it for them. While she is a valuable member of my transition team, I do not use the blue as I used to. I am considering a switch to either a 5/4/4 or a 5/3/5 build.

    I am looking for advice from the forum. Thanks in advance.

    3/5/5 obw was never about the healing, it was about being able to recon after 2 match-3s. 3/5/5 is going to remain optimal purely because of how absurd recon is at level 3, so you dont need to respec.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    When I do use her nowadays, I rarely ever use her blue. Still I would not respect her from 3/5/5 to anything else. Her best skill before and after TH is her purple. I need it to be quick, not cost more AP.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Thank you all very much for the advice, I will keep her at 3/5/5.

    Does anybody have her at 5 purple - at least 80% of the ones I fight in PvP are built with 5 purple? Curious to hear from somebody on that side.
  • HairyDave
    HairyDave Posts: 1,574
    papa07 wrote:
    Thank you all very much for the advice, I will keep her at 3/5/5.

    Does anybody have her at 5 purple - at least 80% of the ones I fight in PvP are built with 5 purple? Curious to hear from somebody on that side.
    There's that many people who don't read this forum? icon_lol.gif

    5/4/4 is honestly not a bad build for PvE because you get to steal purple from Venom! Yes, you get less healing, less damage on Espionage and it takes an extra match to fire off Aggressive Recon but stealing up to four of every colour can be a huge advantage - particularly in some of the goon/villain fights.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    HairyDave wrote:
    papa07 wrote:
    Thank you all very much for the advice, I will keep her at 3/5/5.

    Does anybody have her at 5 purple - at least 80% of the ones I fight in PvP are built with 5 purple? Curious to hear from somebody on that side.
    There's that many people who don't read this forum? icon_lol.gif

    5/4/4 is honestly not a bad build for PvE because you get to steal purple from Venom! Yes, you get less healing, less damage on Espionage and it takes an extra match to fire off Aggressive Recon but stealing up to four of every colour can be a huge advantage - particularly in some of the goon/villain fights.

    The (seemingly) lost angle with the lvl5 purple cover is that the excess cost is just an upfront thing. Once you get to 11, you're stealing back 4 purple, so every cast after the initial only needs 7AP to steal 4, vs the 3-covered cost of 8AP to steal 3.

    So if you're in a battle where you get to cast it 3 times (not uncommon), it's 25purple to steal 12AP of the other 5, vs 24purple to steal 9. Does make a difference when you're in grindy matches.

    I still have 3/5/5 built, but i'm planning on 5/3/5 for the second build.
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    The (seemingly) lost angle with the lvl5 purple cover is that the excess cost is just an upfront thing. Once you get to 11, you're stealing back 4 purple, so every cast after the initial only needs 7AP to steal 4, vs the 3-covered cost of 8AP to steal 3.
    Good point, if you're playing purple-generating goons. In normal use, I found that the extra AP you'd steal from a higher level purple skill was mostly hypothetical. So your idea of having two builds is a pretty good one.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    The (seemingly) lost angle with the lvl5 purple cover is that the excess cost is just an upfront thing. Once you get to 11, you're stealing back 4 purple, so every cast after the initial only needs 7AP to steal 4, vs the 3-covered cost of 8AP to steal 3.
    Good point, if you're playing purple-generating goons. In normal use, I found that the extra AP you'd steal from a higher level purple skill was mostly hypothetical. So your idea of having two builds is a pretty good one.

    That's true, it's not a guaranteed 4 per cast. Even then, three lvl 3 recons steals 9 of all but purple each color for 24AP. Worst case, two lvl 5 recons steals 8 of each for 22AP. So the gap in value is really created in the speed with which you can start stealing. That speed only really matters for PvP climbs/shield hopping.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    simonsez wrote:
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    The (seemingly) lost angle with the lvl5 purple cover is that the excess cost is just an upfront thing. Once you get to 11, you're stealing back 4 purple, so every cast after the initial only needs 7AP to steal 4, vs the 3-covered cost of 8AP to steal 3.
    Good point, if you're playing purple-generating goons. In normal use, I found that the extra AP you'd steal from a higher level purple skill was mostly hypothetical. So your idea of having two builds is a pretty good one.

    That's true, it's not a guaranteed 4 per cast. Even then, three lvl 3 recons steals 9 of all but purple each color for 24AP. Worst case, two lvl 5 recons steals 8 of each for 22AP. So the gap in value is really created in the speed with which you can start stealing. That speed only really matters for PvP climbs/shield hopping.

    Why does the speed only matter in pvp/shield hopping? Getting your recons out more quickly means that you deny the enemy of their resources quicker, which can potentially be the difference of your team eating a call the storm or not, which is extremely valuable in any format. I really dislike 5 purple just because you need an extra purple match-3 to get it off in the first place, they need to have purple ap to steal in order for it to be as fast as 3 purple in subsequent casts, and they need 4ap+ in order for you to steal the full amount, which is hard when ap is gained mostly in increments of 3. This means that your 22ap to steal 8 is more like 22ap to steal 6-7ap due to the increments of 4 making it so that your first cast will steal on average less than 4ap per color.
  • mouser
    mouser Posts: 529 Critical Contributor
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    The (seemingly) lost angle with the lvl5 purple cover is that the excess cost is just an upfront thing. Once you get to 11, you're stealing back 4 purple, so every cast after the initial only needs 7AP to steal 4, vs the 3-covered cost of 8AP to steal 3.

    However, unless you're fighting purple-generating goons you're not likely to steal 4 purple on each recon. Especially as you'll probably be focusing on grabbing the purple matches in the first place to recon quickly.
  • over_clocked
    over_clocked Posts: 3,961
    I have a second oBW and I don't want to build her 5/3/5 as I want her to steal fast, darnit. I was considering lvl 5 Recon for PvE, but really, there aren't that many pruple abilities that you need to deny. Even Venom is simply a nuisance and his purple only falls from the sky when he's with goons. I'm more worried about the rest of the rainbow, which is only 5/6 colours.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    NorthernPolarity wrote:

    Why does the speed only matter in pvp/shield hopping? Getting your recons out more quickly means that you deny the enemy of their resources quicker, which can potentially be the difference of your team eating a call the storm or not, which is extremely valuable in any format. I really dislike 5 purple just because you need an extra purple match-3 to get it off in the first place, they need to have purple ap to steal in order for it to be as fast as 3 purple in subsequent casts, and they need 4ap+ in order for you to steal the full amount, which is hard when ap is gained mostly in increments of 3. This means that your 22ap to steal 8 is more like 22ap to steal 6-7ap due to the increments of 4 making it so that your first cast will steal on average less than 4ap per color.

    If you're not stealing the full amount, you're (likely) not at risk for a nuke in 2* land, so those balance out. Only Onslaught, Feral Claws, Mjolnir's Might, Fireball, and Gravity Warp hit for any force for 3 matches or less. Color denial is more essential than recon in any of those cases. With a bad cascade, you're also tinykittied with either build. Thus, the more efficient start mostly benefits launching your own abilities to get out of the match quickly and save a little on match-3 damage.

    I agree 100% that 3/5/5 is still easily superior, because espionage often steals the purple you'd steal anyway. There's just situational utility in the 5/3/5 build, which strikes me as more like Cap's abilities. Takes longer to get going, but once it does, it's ultimately more useful than other more efficient tools.
  • mouser
    mouser Posts: 529 Critical Contributor
    If I were to build a 2nd OBW, I'd go with 1/5/5 or 2/5/5 for even faster steals where you don't care about stealing/denying black. A 1 purple OBW can be very disruptive to most opponents.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Lately, I've seen several instances where I used the Black Widow 2 healing power near the end of a round in both Heroic Tower and Fly-Fight-Win. The healing power worked on all characters, then I immediately followed with a major strike that finished off the opponents. I immediately went to the next round and using the exact same team, their health levels were significantly less than when I ended the game. Is this a bug? I've been seeing this happen frequently for the last couple of days.
  • _RiO_
    _RiO_ Posts: 1,047 Chairperson of the Boards
    Search for 'true healing'.

    The developer thought it would be a good idea to artificially limit playtime by making healing abilities' effects temporary. If you are damaged, your 'true' health will go down. You can use a healing ability, such as OBW's or Spiderman's to get a burst of temporary health to finish the match on, but as soon as the match ends, your health is back to the 'true' health value. The only way to get back true health is to let it regenerate naturally over time, use a healthpack or to play with natural regenerators Daken and Wolverine.
  • hurcules
    hurcules Posts: 519
    I noticed Espionage animation resolves much faster now (used have be half a second longer on tile-matches with Espionage). Perhaps the mid-air crit tile match feature/bug has been fixed too?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    overrated chars ever

    i hate his chars
  • HairyDave
    HairyDave Posts: 1,574
    PegasusTR wrote:
    overrated chars ever

    i hate his chars
    Overrated? Not likely.

    Maybe not quite as highly as she used to be now that you can't abuse AGD for endless healing but she is still an absolute monster in 2* country. And enough of a pain in the **** to make 3*s look elsewhere depending on who she's teamed with.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    if she 3* chars is ok but 2* and better than hulk,senrty and more good marvel chars

    Some d3 crew like a lot of her

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