Black Widow (Original) - 2*

mischiefmaker

Yes, espionage works on blue, but only if you have the middle spot. I'm 100% sure.

Be aware that this only applies for 2* characters who have blue as their second-strongest tile damage color. There's a hidden decimal in there, so a 3* character or a 2* character with blue in a different priority might show 45 and still take priority when not in the middle spot.

OnesOwnGrief

OBW will only steal if she's the one making the match regardless of position. If the blue tile does not carry her logo, it will not pop off. For example, Spidey will tank her color of purple at some point. Matching purple will not activate. Spidey gets stunned and now purple has OBWs logo, she will now grab purple when it is matched. This applies to Purple, Blue, and Black and obviously the skill level.

Katai

From a semantic point of a view, Healing vs Shielding is far clearer than Healing vs True Healing. The term True Healing is confusing, and I would love it if all text regarding non-True Healing were changed to "Shielding".

Shielding above your Max HP should be allowed. I see no reason why this shouldn't be allowed.

As far as OBW, her blue needs to be cheaper. Even just 1 AP cheaper would make me feel better about this ability.

Unknown

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

OBW will only steal if she's the one making the match regardless of position. If the blue tile does not carry her logo, it will not pop off. For example, Spidey will tank her color of purple at some point. Matching purple will not activate. Spidey gets stunned and now purple has OBWs logo, she will now grab purple when it is matched. This applies to Purple, Blue, and Black and obviously the skill level.

Yes, I was aware of that (but thanks for the clarification), but I wanted to be sure that, at equal blue (or purple and black) lvl, as in my example, it would be her logo on the tiles.

Now I know for sure she has to be in the middle as an extra condition.

And I can safely upgrade CS and MH to 85

Also, nice interesting additional info, mischiefmaker !

Thank you both guys

Unknown

Katai wrote:

As far as OBW, her blue needs to be cheaper. Even just 1 AP cheaper would make me feel better about this ability.

With just the current effect it definitely should cost much less, like 6 or 7. And spiderman's yellow 9 tops.

Unknown

What about changing her blue to a cascade of shields, ala Falcon? Dump 16 strength 20 shields on the diagonals and match damage goes away for a while

Unknown

papa07 wrote:

What about changing her blue to a cascade of shields, ala Falcon? Dump 16 strength 20 shields on the diagonals and match damage goes away for a while

That's a very interesting change of idea. It's not tied to each ally, just the one in the front. Like a real shield. And the opponent can match it away, so it would work very well in PVP style on our end as well.

Unknown

I am no bigshot game designer like OP but wouldn't that shield be even more insane than it was before?

First thing in any match you would scrounge together some Blue and put a shield up, maybe put another shield up, maybe a third. To get value from the previous version you had to have each character damaged.

Unknown

PPPlaya wrote:

I am no bigshot game designer like OP but wouldn't that shield be even more insane than it was before?

I may have been over generous with the HP shields. And I probably do need to lower that in order to make my post more credible to the devs. I was just being overly optimistic. But yeah, it would solve nothing if her shield ability was that high. She would still be heavily used. And they wouldn't get the "diversity" that they are looking for.

Edit: Values have been changed to more realistic values.

PPPlaya wrote:

First thing in any match you would scrounge together some Blue and put a shield up, maybe put another shield up, maybe a third. To get value from the previous version you had to have each character damaged.

And huh? maybe I am not reading this correctly, but can you rephrase or elaborate please?

Unknown

Increasing all countdowns by 4 for 6 AP would make AGD just insane in PvE, where it's already really good

Nightglider1

My OBW is at 3/5/5 - 85. I'm considering respeccing to 4/4/5 or even 5/3/5.

Thoughts?

Dayv

I think 3/5/5 is still her best build. I like my steals cheap, and blue is still pretty darn useful - you just want to fire it as soon and as often as possible instead of saving them for the end to cancel out damage.

Unknown

The reason to run 3/5/5 is for cheap AR - the added benefits to her blue at 4 and 5 covers were nice for PvE, but really you went 3/5/5 for fast AR and 5/3/5 for an AR that steals purple, and the healing nerf doesn't change that IMO

TheHueyFreeman

People tend to go back and forth on whether more in espionase is better ir worse. I tend to think that either are viable but that 3/5/5 and 5/3/5 are both superior to 4/4/5.

When I fight a widow, the first thing I look for is the AP required to trigger purple. I don't even worry about the ones that need 11AP but I watch carefully on 8AP.

NorthernPolarity

TheHueyFreeman wrote:

People tend to go back and forth on whether more in espionase is better ir worse. I tend to think that either are viable but that 3/5/5 and 5/3/5 are both superior to 4/4/5.

When I fight a widow, the first thing I look for is the AP required to trigger purple. I don't even worry about the ones that need 11AP but I watch carefully on 8AP.

Yeah, i always let out a sigh of relief when i see an obw that has a level 4+ recon. The 8ap cost is just too good on defense to pass up, which means 3/5/5 is optimal regardless of whether or not healing is bad now.

HairyDave

NorthernPolarity wrote:

TheHueyFreeman wrote:

People tend to go back and forth on whether more in espionase is better ir worse. I tend to think that either are viable but that 3/5/5 and 5/3/5 are both superior to 4/4/5.

When I fight a widow, the first thing I look for is the AP required to trigger purple. I don't even worry about the ones that need 11AP but I watch carefully on 8AP.

Yeah, i always let out a sigh of relief when i see an obw that has a level 4+ recon. The 8ap cost is just too good on defense to pass up, which means 3/5/5 is optimal regardless of whether or not healing is bad now.

This.

Level 4+ AR is fine when you're in charge but you're just painting a target on yourself.

FaerieMyst

I respecced mine to 3/5/5 then re-specced her to 5/5/3. The passive steal is okay but I like the more active one that also steals purple.

Unknown

If you run obw with someone who lays strike tiles like pun, 5 black is a must. The extra damage along with the strike tile damage helps clean up quick. My OBW is currently 355 and I plan on changing to 535 as soon as I get the covers.

Dayv

Jonstalnaker209 wrote:

If you run obw with someone who lays strike tiles like pun, 5 black is a must. The extra damage along with the strike tile damage helps clean up quick. My OBW is currently 355 and I plan on changing to 535 as soon as I get the covers.

Even without strike tiles, that extra tap on match damage adds up. With strikes, it's amazing.

Unknown

Defensively is where the real big difference in-between 3 and 5 in purple comes from. @5 you will almost never get it defensively before dying. Offense, both work fine as overpowered Ap stealing moves compared to any other Ap steal in the game. No reason to go only 4 into purple imo, its either 3/5/5 (I am assuming her colors are pur/blue/black?), 5/4/4, or 5/3/5 (blue @3.. I don't know the order of here colors).

Also, 4 black is all you need for the double tap. The 5th in black only adds a small amount of damage on top.