Black Widow (Original) - 2*

Unknown

Jonstalnaker209 wrote:

If you run obw with someone who lays strike tiles like pun, 5 black is a must. The extra damage along with the strike tile damage helps clean up quick. My OBW is currently 355 and I plan on changing to 535 as soon as I get the covers.

Actually for that case 4 is the must. 5 over 4 is not really relevant. That extra damage is interesting when proceeding without strike tiles.

Unknown

Selling her is not a good decision right?

I don't use her after healing changes.

shes 12500 ISO at max level

over_clocked

oBW is the best support character at 2* stage, and long after that, too. 12500 ISO is a pittance. You run oBW first and foremost because of Recon.

hurcules

Not to mention when she is allowed in PvE, you'd be thankful that you won't have to eat as much Tommy Guns / Flamethrowers / Grenades.

Also, [grain of salt]since IceIX says her healing would not cause scaling jump anymore [/grain of salt].

Phaserhawk

HairyDave wrote:

yogi_ wrote:

Any updates to 3/5/5?

It's still a good build for speed and keeping you alive in the fight so I'm not going to change mine any time soon.

That said, what are the alternatives? I ran with 5/4/4 for quite a while (I could never get those elusive blue and black covers) and it actually works pretty well on attack, particularly against another OBW, but I'm sure failed dismally on defence outside of lucky cascades.

You just have to scroll back a bit and see all the discussion but there a a few school's of thought but it comes down to 1 simple factor, how do you value Recon?

Do you want fast but weak steal or slow but powerful?

Because with the whole healing debacle, you don't need to even worry about her blue right now, it now depends on how you feel on Recon. Obviously if you want the fast steal, she builds herself, 3/5/5. If you want the max steal i think with the recent health changes 5/3/5 is the better build, although the extra damage from black is small and you do get extra counters for CD's so 5/4/4 is okay as well. If you want the power of stealing 4 AP but not purple, and feel that 11AP is too much over 10 AP then you can go 4/5/4 or 4/4/5 but honestly, I always chuckled at the 4/5/4 people since assuming 3 tile matches you have 1-3 AP, 4-6 AP, 7-9 AP, 10-12 AP, etc. So if you go 4 in Recon you are banking on getting a 4 tile match and pushing it into the 7-9 AP or the theoretical 3rd turn range. I personally think 4 in recon is terrible, go 3 or 5. Again if you go 3, you lock into 3/5/5 if you choose 5 then you are going to have to figure out whats more important.

3/5/5--Pros:Fast Steal, Guarenteed Heal, Max Dmg---Cons:only steal 3 AP, no purple
5/3/5--Pros:Strong Steal, Max Dmg---Cons:slower on steal, heal stopped by CD tiles
5/4/4--Pros:Strong Steal, Better CD Counter than 5/3/5---Cons:slower on steal, heal stopped by CD tiles, lower dmg
5/5/3--Pros:Strong Steal, Guranteed Heal---Cons:slower on steal, no strike tile double damage

IMO the best of the 5 Recon builds are 5/3/5 or 5/4/4. While 5/3/5 does give you more damage and even more so when buffed, 5/4/4 gives you a stronger defensive build against goons. 5/3/5 is better for PvP where 5/4/4 is better for PvE. the 5/5/3 is terrible as you give up a lot of offensive fire power without 4 in black as that strike tile synergy is insane, both PvE or PvP, I think having a better offensive with OBW is better than having a stronger defense especially with the true heal implementation.

If I needed to use OBW and I hadn't already built her 3/5/5 I would strongly consider 5/3/5 or 5/4/4given the true heal. While OBW is probably the faster healer in the game, I noticed once she no longer could match blue due to my other characters getting stronger, her effectiveness started to wane. She has become for me only a PvE character, in fact, as I get purple covers I will be switching her to 5/3/5 or 5/4/4. When her and C.Mags are buffed together, being able to steal colors, plus getting purple back is nice so Mags can go off. Pretty much once I got my Hood to 5 blue, I no longer needed OBW.

and for my third summation.
in 2* stage, I think 3/5/5 is the only build for OBW. It allows you to be competive in PvP and PvE. Once you get a solid 3* roster and you get a maxed Hood, she becomes a PvE character only especially with the Heal Nerf. I will be switching mine from 3/5/5 once the covers for purple come in. I think to optimize her for PvP and Goon battles 5/4/4 is probably the best way to go, being able to slow those CD tiles for 4 turns instead of 3 is just as good as a health shield, and since you can't get the health back anyway, I don't see the need for level 5 blue anyway, the damage has already been done, it only keeps more from happening.

Unknown

If you stop running OBW at the 2* or even the transition stage you'd end up using way more health pack from flat out losing games instead of just having to heal OBW after the game's over.

over_clocked

Since not many players can afford to build duplicate oBWs, I recommend staying at 3/5/5, that gal will net you some defensive wins. Level 5 Recon, not so much.

Phaserhawk

locked wrote:

Since not many players can afford to build duplicate oBWs, I recommend staying at 3/5/5, that gal will net you some defensive wins. Level 5 Recon, not so much.

I'm at the point in my collection (thank goodness) I have outgrown OBW. I never use her, period. My 141 Hood is vastly superior to OBW and she is a huge liability on defense, at least for me. But again I said in PvP 3/5/5 is the way to go. But since I"m not using her in PvP anymore, she is only used in PvE and there I find her 3/5/5 build to be very lacking, thus I will be upgrading her to 5/4/4 in the near future.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

If you stop running OBW at the 2* or even the transition stage you'd end up using way more health pack from flat out losing games instead of just having to heal OBW after the game's over.

Agreed, until you can run a solid 3* lineup OBW is best left at 3/5/5 for those reasons. But once you start facing and getting attacked by 3x141's, more than likely the reason is that you are 2x141 + 1x85. I love OBW to death, but she served her purpose of moving me into where I am now and I am forever grateful, which is why I want to do her the honor of still using her and making her 5/4/4

Unknown

Hi guys,

I don't post often (ever), usually just read, but I wanted to throw up an opinion on OBW/true healing. This isn't really specific to her but I didn't want to create a new thread, either.

So I'm going to make an argument that will probably not be well received, but:

Rather than consider how healing works as 'healing', it might be better to phrase it as 'shielding'. I say this because while the health is temporary in a fight, if you're damaged and then use OBW's blue, you're now shielded from taking that much incoming damage. It is objectively worse, for sure, but it's still fairly useful; sure, it's not a full heal, but it's straight up damage you won't be receiving. Well, potential damage, anyway. I'm still finding her pretty useful for that reason alone, and I think it will cost you less medkits without negating their utility altogether.

Maybe her blue is balanced, now? She's still a pretty strong character for recon and espionage, though.

Elsewhere: stick to 3/5/5. Stealing purple is rarely worth how much it slows down the initial use of recon. I'd rather have it on 8 and stop a big-scary-death move than have it on 11 and potentially get some more purple, to keep the chain going/stop a purple attack.

Edit-- My apologies if this sentiment was posted elsewhere already. I only browse on occasion.

eidehua

I would say shielding would be a better term if temp healing allowed over heal, so it really would be a full value shield

Unknown

bruceway wrote:

Selling her is not a good decision right?

I don't use her after healing changes.

shes 12500 ISO at max level

Never sell a character. You'll regret it.

over_clocked

I sold Yelena and Bullseye to fit some more useful characters and dupes (including a dupe oBW for PvE), not regretting it yet

GrumpySmurf1002

Yeah, thinking of selling OBW is basically MPQ suicide for a 2* player. This PvE is almost a one woman OBW show (just need wolv/pun to put down the strike tiles)

She's still a monster. Once you launch her blue, that's the end of damage to you that game (barring poor planning or a slow launch). With the exception of bad luck/bad planning, you can pretty much get by with just health packing her and switching the other character in PvP (run Ares til he dies, switch to Thor, etc...).

One fun trick thanks to OBW is to launch Sunder such that it only takes out the temporary healing, then when the CD kicks in, he heals for real. So it's still possible to leave a battle with more health than Ares started with. Also works well with Wolverine, giving him a shield while you get the yellow matches to get him back to 50%.

Despite Ice telling me we're better off dumping ISO into our unused Daredevils and Spider-Man's, I'm building a 2nd OBW to help. Heck, I might consider building a 3rd if the 3* cover accumulation goes so slow that I can't make the switch.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Despite Ice telling me we're better off dumping ISO into our unused Daredevils and Spider-Man's, I'm building a 2nd OBW to help. Heck, I might consider building a 3rd if the 3* cover accumulation goes so slow that I can't make the switch.

They don't give a damn where you spend your iso as long as you spend it.

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Yeah, thinking of selling OBW is basically MPQ suicide for a 2* player. This PvE is almost a one woman OBW show (just need wolv/pun to put down the strike tiles)

She's still a monster. Once you launch her blue, that's the end of damage to you that game (barring poor planning or a slow launch). With the exception of bad luck/bad planning, you can pretty much get by with just health packing her and switching the other character in PvP (run Ares til he dies, switch to Thor, etc...).

One fun trick thanks to OBW is to launch Sunder such that it only takes out the temporary healing, then when the CD kicks in, he heals for real. So it's still possible to leave a battle with more health than Ares started with. Also works well with Wolverine, giving him a shield while you get the yellow matches to get him back to 50%.

Despite Ice telling me we're better off dumping ISO into our unused Daredevils and Spider-Man's, I'm building a 2nd OBW to help. Heck, I might consider building a 3rd if the 3* cover accumulation goes so slow that I can't make the switch.

you'd be better off leveling other guys or putting into wolvies, dakens', and hulks as they recoup their health much faster. OBW is a crutch that most players still use even though they would be better off without her. OBW still is good, instead of not having to use health packs, you just use them far less than you would without her, and specifically you just need them for her.

GrumpySmurf1002

Phaserhawk wrote:

you'd be better off leveling other guys or putting into wolvies, dakens', and hulks as they recoup their health much faster. OBW is a crutch that most players still use even though they would be better off without her. OBW still is good, instead of not having to use health packs, you just use them far less than you would without her, and specifically you just need them for her.

It's not about a crutch as much as it is about using the only viable 2* support character. Trust me, I'd love to move on to Hood or LDaken or any of the 3* teams really. It's not feasible for me, and won't be for a considerable amount of time. Most of my useful 3*s are soft capped as is, against my own better judgment (because now I actually hit a wall of 141s in PvP I never saw before).

Unless you meant 2* wolverine and 2* daken, who are still weaker than OBW, even with their regen. Yeah, I'm not building more of them. They're useful at keeping themselves alive for extended time. OBW is still useful at keeping everyone alive.

Maybe I'm not a true player because I use OBW. I'm good with that. I've still been able to play 3+ hour sessions while others are bemoaning the change, presumably b/c they can't see OBW still dominates the land, 'true heal' or not.

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

you'd be better off leveling other guys or putting into wolvies, dakens', and hulks as they recoup their health much faster. OBW is a crutch that most players still use even though they would be better off without her. OBW still is good, instead of not having to use health packs, you just use them far less than you would without her, and specifically you just need them for her.

It's not about a crutch as much as it is about using the only viable 2* support character. Trust me, I'd love to move on to Hood or LDaken or any of the 3* teams really. It's not feasible for me, and won't be for a considerable amount of time. Most of my useful 3*s are soft capped as is, against my own better judgment (because now I actually hit a wall of 141s in PvP I never saw before).

Unless you meant 2* wolverine and 2* daken, who are still weaker than OBW, even with their regen. Yeah, I'm not building more of them. They're useful at keeping themselves alive for extended time. OBW is still useful at keeping everyone alive.

Maybe I'm not a true player because I use OBW. I'm good with that. I've still been able to play 3+ hour sessions while others are bemoaning the change, presumably b/c they can't see OBW still dominates the land, 'true heal' or not.

Yeah, so you don't fall into that category so OBW is still what you need. I'm refering to players that have maybe 1 or 2 3* guys maxed and have soft capped guys at around 120 or so, those are the kinds of people that need to move away from OBW. I've said many times before, once you get a Hood with max blue, and you can get him with more hitpoints than OBW, you are ready to kick her to the PvE curb.

metallicajake01

Anti-Gravity Device - Blue 11 AP
Stolen Stark tech increases enemy countdowns by 2. If there are none, heals all allies of 100 damage.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Add 3 to timers.
Level 3: Costs 2 AP less.
Level 4: Adds 4 to timers.
Level 5: 50% heal with enemy countdown timers present.
Max Level: Heals 1139HP
(Dev note: This means at Level 5 AGD and base level character, she would heal for 50 with Countdown tiles, plus 50 more if none are present)

"Level 5: 50% heal with enemy countdown timers present. " I just got my 5th blue cover LAST NIGHT and this is now gone.... its 545 or 1090 with no countdown tiles..... gee thanks guys!

I'm getting killed badly, I lose so many points in between sessions my net gain is about 50 and after i throw in the towel on Versus I can't even play story. This is ridiculous, the true healing, sure, I get that there's a distinct advantage to someone who heals all the time and never needs to use a pack and you took that out of the equation but it just wasn't good enough. Wait for the dust to settle, I was well on my way to 5k for the 10pack and still may barely hit it but now I just flat out can't compete...don't you guys want me to play your game, right now i'm tapped out after like 30-45 minutes!

Unknown

What? Aside from "true healing," It's doing exactly what the description says, and what it's always done