**** Invisible Woman (Classic) ****

dkffiv

Osaic wrote:

How dare you doubt IW.

Who else could have gone from this...

...to this...


And in a mere 35 minutes! Killing Daken was a challenge because his heal rate was higher than my match damage, and Bullseye's protect tiles made it even worse. It would take about 20-25 turns to build up enough blue AP to strategically lock tiles and blow them up with green to do some damage, and then I'd start all over again.

About 20 minutes in, I lost invis for one turn due to a match 4, but was lucky Daken had no Blue AP stored up (and I had a couple of protect tiles in play). He must have used that power a hundred times on an invisible me. The fool!

I had one match with PX where I lost all my special tiles and the last guy took like 20m (killed via match 5's rather than IW's green). Normally its over within 2m if PX is the last one alive and invisible.

Please keep in mind the boardshake that creates when evaluating the skill. 3 bubbles blowing up does change the board a lot and the damage is actually better than a lot of other similar green skills (X-Force, R&G). It's costly and it's slow to setup but you basically will kill/get to low health the target when you use .

The whole problem of 3 tiles blown up vs 4 bubble can be solved easily. Just put 2 bubbles next to whatever tile you MUST blow up, problem solved.

Even if you considered the skill to only cost 12 AP, its worse than pre-nerf Xforce (which was a fairly balanced skill). If we're comparing post nerf neutered Xforce, Xforce is still better if we're comparing the 2 with nothing but 24 green AP.

24 AP R&G vs. IW is 5920+4070 (9990 damage) and a better board shake vs. 6369. If you're making an extremely unfair 12 AP comparison (by that token Groot should probably be spotted his blue too) its still 3700 damage for Groot and a superior board shake.

Regarding the 3 vs 4 it can't always be solved easily. Sometimes the special tile is surrounded by other special tiles (namely your own) and there is frequently only 1 good spot that will avoid killing your crucial tile. I've been forced to take out my own invis or blue protect tile to nail a Sacrifice and the problem would've been avoided if blue only made 3 bubbles.

ayatorahxephon

so who are the best team mate for iw? Is iw, deadpool, Blade viable?

Unknown

IW is kind of weird in that she's good in a last man standing battle. There's not too many people who get better alone, the few being:
Prof X (Blind Spot)
IW (Invisibility)
Vision (Density: Heavy)
Patch (Best There Is)
Gamora (Bad Reputation)

Her green just doesn't do the damage it needs to. It's far worse than X-Force and costs 50% more AP, while needing additional set up.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

IW is kind of weird in that she's good in a last man standing battle. There's not too many people who get better alone, the few being:
Prof X (Blind Spot)
IW (Invisibility)
Vision (Density: Heavy)
Patch (Best There Is)
Gamora (Bad Reputation)

Her green just doesn't do the damage it needs to. It's far worse than X-Force and costs 50% more AP, while needing additional set up.

the thing that bugs me is she's a worse 'invisible' character than professor X.

it seems like D3 said 'let's give her protect tiles on everything, then she'll be usable!'

ayatorahxephon

Which character has a synergy with her?? So far I tried Deadpool, beside the rainbow color, I could hardly find a synergy character for IW...

donietsche

ayatorahxephon wrote:

Which character has a synergy with her?? So far I tried Deadpool, beside the rainbow color, I could hardly find a synergy character for IW...

her invisibility tile, in theory, can be useful if you bring along a support character with low health (Loki or Hood).

One can think about some potential annoying team, defense-oriented (but I don't know how effective they would be in reality).

For example, IW-Cage-Kamala? (you lose red, but you can accelerate IW green, though Kamala's green is usually a better option).

IW-Loki-LC? (red still absent, overlaps in yellow and black, but Loki's black is conditional, so it's not a big problem).

None of them, I'm afraid, will earn you a lot of skips...

dkffiv

donietsche wrote:

ayatorahxephon wrote:

Which character has a synergy with her?? So far I tried Deadpool, beside the rainbow color, I could hardly find a synergy character for IW...

her invisibility tile, in theory, can be useful if you bring along a support character with low health (Loki or Hood).

One can think about some potential annoying team, defense-oriented (but I don't know how effective they would be in reality).

For example, IW-Cage-Kamala? (you lose red, but you can accelerate IW green, though Kamala's green is usually a better option).

IW-Loki-LC? (red still absent, overlaps in yellow and black, but Loki's black is conditional, so it's not a big problem).

None of them, I'm afraid, will earn you a lot of skips...

Cage (5/5/0) She Hulk Hulkbuster would probably be more annoying on defense.

donietsche

dkffiv wrote:

donietsche wrote:

ayatorahxephon wrote:

Which character has a synergy with her?? So far I tried Deadpool, beside the rainbow color, I could hardly find a synergy character for IW...

her invisibility tile, in theory, can be useful if you bring along a support character with low health (Loki or Hood).

One can think about some potential annoying team, defense-oriented (but I don't know how effective they would be in reality).

For example, IW-Cage-Kamala? (you lose red, but you can accelerate IW green, though Kamala's green is usually a better option).

IW-Loki-LC? (red still absent, overlaps in yellow and black, but Loki's black is conditional, so it's not a big problem).

None of them, I'm afraid, will earn you a lot of skips...

Cage (5/5/0) She Hulk Hulkbuster would probably be more annoying on defense.

Sure, I wasn't talking about the best defensive team one can conceive, but about a team specifically built around IW.

As I said in previous posts, I don't believe that IW is a character worth contemplating for pvp.

OnesOwnGrief

donietsche wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

donietsche wrote:

ayatorahxephon wrote:

Which character has a synergy with her?? So far I tried Deadpool, beside the rainbow color, I could hardly find a synergy character for IW...

her invisibility tile, in theory, can be useful if you bring along a support character with low health (Loki or Hood).

One can think about some potential annoying team, defense-oriented (but I don't know how effective they would be in reality).

For example, IW-Cage-Kamala? (you lose red, but you can accelerate IW green, though Kamala's green is usually a better option).

IW-Loki-LC? (red still absent, overlaps in yellow and black, but Loki's black is conditional, so it's not a big problem).

None of them, I'm afraid, will earn you a lot of skips...

Cage (5/5/0) She Hulk Hulkbuster would probably be more annoying on defense.

Sure, I wasn't talking about the best defensive team one can conceive, but about a team specifically built around IW.

As I said in previous posts, I don't believe that IW is a character worth contemplating for pvp.

No, she's not. Though any IW-centric teams would only be viable during Simulator. Her skills are really good at stalling out the enemy but definitely need backups who can deliver damage. IW is not a damager, much like how She-Hulk isn't. Any team built has to keep that in mind. I also feel that if you are in a situation in which you have IW as the last person standing, something went terribly wrong to get to that point.

eidehua

Hmm so using IW in some gauntlet nodes for fun, and in the second gauntlet against the captain marvel node, I noticed using invisibility overwrote the stun! My HT was still on 1 turn of stun, but then I cast IW yellow and suddenly I was able to make matches with him. I suppose this is similar to why venom can't stun an invisible guy, because invisibility is overriding stun effects. Probably not intentional interaction!

Unknown

I have her at 5/3/5. Grant invisibility is her best as she can hide the entire team as each player falls to the most hurt. The force bubbles can be used to protect the invisible tile and Protect tile. Force Field Crush is really the only way she can hurt anyone on a team so if she is your last character to survive you have to switch your strategy and instead of protecting tiles with the Force Bubbles you have to avoid them so the Force Field Crush does not destroy them. She is good to team with someone that can do a lot of damage but does not have much health.

dkffiv

So after using her a bunch I've come up with why IW sucks:

Yellow: Because Invisibility doesn't persist after IW dies, it feels like its mostly functioning as a really bad version of Colossus' yellow. She has a ton of HP now and she almost never turns herself invisible, so it usually functions to funnel all the damage to herself until she dies, then her allies are on their own (just like Colossus except without the damage reduction portion). For the most part yellow is a more popular color than purple so her tile also tends to get matched away much faster than PX's.

Blue: Useful but I really dislike locking 4 tiles at 4+ covers. The ability to lock invisible, CD, (bomb) tiles makes it hard to not go 5 into it.

Green: I think its pretty fair to label this as a 19 (or at the very least ~17 AP) skill. On the Ultron node I was frequently swimming in either blue or green but rarely both, making this skill very hard to get off. "Super boosted" to 360 this skill only does 8373 damage (less than 500 damage per AP if you consider it to be 17 AP). Cyclops boosted 90 levels results in a red that does 6553 for 10 AP (650 per AP) and a black that does around 8,780/12,500 for 13 AP (675 per AP / 960 per AP).

At 270 its 375 damage per AP @17AP, 335 @ 19AP, 265 @ 24AP. The closest comparison is Hood's yellow at 380 damage per AP (that also ends the turn) but most people agree that the Hood's skills suck to make up for blue being awesome.

Green should be changed to 3801 damage (same damage as NF's purple) and destroys up to 3 force bubbles, dealing 856 bonus damage per. Total damage is the same as it currently is (6369) except that it can be cast on an empty board and casting it after blue results in true "bonus damage." (Random bubble generation component removed)

Unknown

And yet...I still kind of like her. She is a very strategic character, in that every power of hers makes you think about how and when to use it. In some of these long difficult gauntlet fights, I enjoy the puzzle aspect of her powers.

And she was pretty effective at times. I liked her vs Kingpin, and Ultron, and any very dangerous tile generators. I also like using her for sneaky things like locking down colors I want when facing a hood so he doesn't steal from me.

I also liked her as my team protect tile generator (when Cage was down). It doesn't take long to get her blue out, and yellow is some serious protection. In one match, I used Invis to hide a depleted Iron Fist so he could collect and fire purple for many more turns.

She's not a damage dealer, but she has been an asset as a specialist B team player for me.

simonsez

If her green blew up the bubbled tiles, she'd be viable.

ayatorahxephon

extremely difficult to find good partners building around her. I tried, colossus, KK, Psylocke and most of the crew but none that I find have any synergy with her

Chipster22

Is Carnage's Symbiote Scythes supposed to damage friendly characters when Invisible Woman has given them invisibility protection?

donietsche

Chipster22 wrote:

Is Carnage's Symbiote Scythes supposed to damage friendly characters when Invisible Woman has given them invisibility protection?

AOE damage isn't affected by invisibility, as far as I remember. We are talking about team self-damage, but basically S.S. is still an AOE attack...

Quebbster

So I have had a fully covered Invisible woman for a long time but never bothered to level her up. Now that she is Essential in Heroic Mode I started to wonder if perhaps the time has come to level her up. I really liked the functionality of being able to lock difficult countdown tiles...
Anyway, I have enough ISO saved to get her up to somewhere around level 250, but not all the way to 270. What level should I aim for? I have a lvel 270 X-force, a level 250 Fury, a level 215 Thor and almost all three-stars at level 166...
Also, should I consider a different build? She's currently 3/5/5, and I'll definitely want to keep blue at 5, but other that I am open to other builds.

over_clocked

I wouldn't bother leveling IW to 250; that's ISO better spent on PvP characters because she's PvE-only it seems. Level 220, or 221 to tank would suffice plenty. Don't change the build either.

Quebbster

over_clocked wrote:

I wouldn't bother leveling IW to 250; that's ISO better spent on PvP characters because she's PvE-only it seems. Level 220, or 221 to tank would suffice plenty. Don't change the build either.

I might try taking her up to 200 to start and see how I like it. It's going to take a long time putting in that many levels manually though. Good to know I have the right build though, thanks.