** Hawkeye (Modern) **

Unknown

stephen43084 wrote:

I've had time to think about it now. I'm not sure this was a buff, aside from choosing placement of the arrows and lowering of AP costs.

The blue went from having an awesome stun and damage to a weaker stun and the enemy loses AP. Winner previous blue.

The red increased damage. Winner current red.

Purple went from avoid to damage when you make a mtach 5 or larger. Went from an avoid that was pretty much active every turn, to a damage inflicter that barely gets activated. Many lower rosters would use his purple with daken to be able to play well in PVP. This ability is now totally gone. Winner previous puple.


To me, at the least, it's a draw. The reason is because although the AP cost went down and players can now place the tiles (which is how it should have been to begin with), the blue is weaker and the purple is going to be rare to activate. I think the blue either needs to deal damage or "steal" AP from the enemy for this to be a buff overall. I think if the blue stole AP he would be much more useful. I'm not sure why he does not. We're not talking about a lot of AP, and the AP color is random

FYI - The update has not gone through, it's not too late to do a minor tweak *hint, hint*.

The new red does less damage at max level than the previous one.

Unknown

Typhon13 wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

I've had time to think about it now. I'm not sure this was a buff, aside from choosing placement of the arrows and lowering of AP costs.

The blue went from having an awesome stun and damage to a weaker stun and the enemy loses AP. Winner previous blue.

The red increased damage. Winner current red.

Purple went from avoid to damage when you make a mtach 5 or larger. Went from an avoid that was pretty much active every turn, to a damage inflicter that barely gets activated. Many lower rosters would use his purple with daken to be able to play well in PVP. This ability is now totally gone. Winner previous puple.


To me, at the least, it's a draw. The reason is because although the AP cost went down and players can now place the tiles (which is how it should have been to begin with), the blue is weaker and the purple is going to be rare to activate. I think the blue either needs to deal damage or "steal" AP from the enemy for this to be a buff overall. I think if the blue stole AP he would be much more useful. I'm not sure why he does not. We're not talking about a lot of AP, and the AP color is random

FYI - The update has not gone through, it's not too late to do a minor tweak *hint, hint*.

The new red does less damage at max level than the previous one.

You beat me to it. I saw it, after I posted. I was looking at level one, not max level. I'll edit my post.

wymtime

I have not used him in forever. I have had him maxed for ages but once I got Ares, OBW maxed he was done. I think I am going to change him to 4,4,5 and see if he is buffed in the next PVE after the change. Buffed that purple can be huge especially when on the occasion when you get a critical tile on the first match. I think people on the forum are underestimating how powerful his purple can be. I would run him Thor and either Daken, OBW, or MMN. His Purple will be very good in PVE where he will probably be buffed a lot going forward.

GrumpySmurf1002

Very likely switching to 3/5/5. That's the combination that would work best with MMags Polarity Shift.

The crit gets created, triggers the 4x947 2-turn countdowns. Since that will wipe most 2* opponents (assuming the countdowns aren't matched), then the stun hits the turn after, rather than the guy who's about to die anyway. Of course, Hawkeye's red conflicts with Mags red, so Mags/CStorm will still be much preferred as a combo.

Little disappointed they nerfed the red damage and completely removed the blue damage, that seems like unnecessary additions, even if you can aim the tile now. I understand the balance aspect, but if you're 'buffing' a character, than his buff should make him stronger than he was, where this seems like a more lateral move.

Alternatively, with the revamped damage if either his red or blue were switched to black, it'd make a big difference. (Torch is still the only usable black, Moonstone/Bullseye's are jokes).

Had higher hopes, but he'll still be pretty good when buffed for PvE events, so there's that.

Phaserhawk

4/5/4 is the best build for him or you could leave him 5/5/3 as most people probably will. The reason not go 5 into purple is that all it gains you is 1 less CD timer on a skill that you can't control the placement and can't guarentee to activate. Remember you have to match 5 or more tiles to get the passive to trigger. That happens what? 2 maybe 3 times in a match, without C.Mags it won't happen as much, so why would you want to **** your red and blue for the off chance you get a match 5?

You have to go 5 red so you get the CD timer to 2, period, no option.

Because you can't rely on purple, you have to at least 4 in blue to get the CD timer to 2, no option here.

The only true option is whether to have an extra stun turn for blue, or increase the chance of your purple doing dmg by creating a 4th tile. To me the 4th tile is slightly stronger than the 3 turn stun over 2 turn stun, but I would totally understand someone going 5 blue.

So with the new purple obviously 5 maxes this skill to fullest potential however, in order to do this, you are severely hindering either red or blue to do this. Unless you have an active purple user on your team, you are probably not going to be matching purple, thus you can't really defend the purple tile placement which is what levels 4 and 5 do for this passive. But again, you only get these tiles if you can match 5 or more tiles, so while this is nice free potential damage, there is no rhyme or reason as to when it will come.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Because you can't rely on purple, you have to at least 4 in blue to get the CD timer to 2, no option here.

No option? Disagree. I'll be going 3 blue because I don't plan on using it much. A non-damaging stun on a countdown with random AP sapping? I'll pass. I'll take a better chance those passive generated countdowns go off and do their damage. It's unreliable on his own, but easy to trigger with MNMags or GSBW and it has potential to hurt, particularly when he's boosted which is probably the only time I'm going to be using him anyway. His blue is just too meh for me to care too much about.

IlDuderino

Sorry for sounding negative but I actually prefer him unchanged. The red change is ok but I quite like his current blue. A two turn countdown tile was fairly easy to protect and it packed a punch. I think the new AP steal is too random to be useful and for a few more AP I would much rather use Storm's blue to do group damage and a 4 turn stun. His existing purple is handy so that you can channel damage onto other more durable team members - the new purple looks like it will see quite restricted use

GrumpySmurf1002

Phaserhawk wrote:

4/5/4 is the best build for him or you could leave him 5/5/3 as most people probably will. The reason not go 5 into purple is that all it gains you is 1 less CD timer on a skill that you can't control the placement and can't guarentee to activate. Remember you have to match 5 or more tiles to get the passive to trigger. That happens what? 2 maybe 3 times in a match, without C.Mags it won't happen as much, so why would you want to **** your red and blue for the off chance you get a match 5?

You have to go 5 red so you get the CD timer to 2, period, no option.

Because you can't rely on purple, you have to at least 4 in blue to get the CD timer to 2, no option here.

The only true option is whether to have an extra stun turn for blue, or increase the chance of your purple doing dmg by creating a 4th tile. To me the 4th tile is slightly stronger than the 3 turn stun over 2 turn stun, but I would totally understand someone going 5 blue.

So with the new purple obviously 5 maxes this skill to fullest potential however, in order to do this, you are severely hindering either red or blue to do this. Unless you have an active purple user on your team, you are probably not going to be matching purple, thus you can't really defend the purple tile placement which is what levels 4 and 5 do for this passive. But again, you only get these tiles if you can match 5 or more tiles, so while this is nice free potential damage, there is no rhyme or reason as to when it will come.

Disagree. With the randomness of the Purple placement, it's way more important to reduce these random purple CD tiles to 2. The blue can be placed, so whether it is 2 or 3 turns is not going to swing momentum much, it will still likely be out of the way and launch a high percentage of the time. Even if the blue is matched from the extra turn, losing a stun is not nearly as devastating as losing multiple 947 damage tiles that are sitting too long.

His usefulness (it seems) is tied to being a secondary partner for MMags, who is the active Purple user in question. With Polarity shift, criticals are guaranteed (save for awful, awful boards). Then consider that with Polarity Shift, it's possible to create multiple match-5s, which should mean double launching of the passive. 8x947 is a game changer. 6x947 is also I suppose, but if you assume that even with a 2-turn CD that some get matched, you've got a much bigger nuke if you give yourself higher odds of the tiles surviving. So at minimum 4 purple is important.

As mentioned also, GSBW is also a purple user and can manipulate the board such that crit triggers often and purple matches are made less available, so there's strong synergy with a 3/5/5 build there as well.

With this game, I just think you have to always favor damage over the periphery, and with blue no longer dealing damage, a stun that is one turn quicker/longer just isn't a priority, especially when you can get your alliance-mates to ship a bunch of 1* Widow Sting teamups that gives you 4 turns guaranteed.

famousfoxking

AmusedObserver wrote:

I haven't been getting 5 matches frequently.

You should talk to this "AmusedObserver" guy, he seems to get plenty of them. Maybe he could share strategy tips?

AmusedObserver wrote:

I get plenty of "Ls" and extra turns.

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

4/5/4 is the best build for him or you could leave him 5/5/3 as most people probably will. The reason not go 5 into purple is that all it gains you is 1 less CD timer on a skill that you can't control the placement and can't guarentee to activate. Remember you have to match 5 or more tiles to get the passive to trigger. That happens what? 2 maybe 3 times in a match, without C.Mags it won't happen as much, so why would you want to **** your red and blue for the off chance you get a match 5?

You have to go 5 red so you get the CD timer to 2, period, no option.

Because you can't rely on purple, you have to at least 4 in blue to get the CD timer to 2, no option here.

The only true option is whether to have an extra stun turn for blue, or increase the chance of your purple doing dmg by creating a 4th tile. To me the 4th tile is slightly stronger than the 3 turn stun over 2 turn stun, but I would totally understand someone going 5 blue.

So with the new purple obviously 5 maxes this skill to fullest potential however, in order to do this, you are severely hindering either red or blue to do this. Unless you have an active purple user on your team, you are probably not going to be matching purple, thus you can't really defend the purple tile placement which is what levels 4 and 5 do for this passive. But again, you only get these tiles if you can match 5 or more tiles, so while this is nice free potential damage, there is no rhyme or reason as to when it will come.

Disagree. With the randomness of the Purple placement, it's way more important to reduce these random purple CD tiles to 2. The blue can be placed, so whether it is 2 or 3 turns is not going to swing momentum much, it will still likely be out of the way and launch a high percentage of the time. Even if the blue is matched from the extra turn, losing a stun is not nearly as devastating as losing multiple 947 damage tiles that are sitting too long.

His usefulness (it seems) is tied to being a secondary partner for MMags, who is the active Purple user in question. With Polarity shift, criticals are guaranteed (save for awful, awful boards). Then consider that with Polarity Shift, it's possible to create multiple match-5s, which should mean double launching of the passive. 8x947 is a game changer. 6x947 is also I suppose, but if you assume that even with a 2-turn CD that some get matched, you've got a much bigger nuke if you give yourself higher odds of the tiles surviving. So at minimum 4 purple is important.

As mentioned also, GSBW is also a purple user and can manipulate the board such that crit triggers often and purple matches are made less available, so there's strong synergy with a 3/5/5 build there as well.

With this game, I just think you have to always favor damage over the periphery, and with blue no longer dealing damage, a stun that is one turn quicker/longer just isn't a priority, especially when you can get your alliance-mates to ship a bunch of 1* Widow Sting teamups that gives you 4 turns guaranteed.

Okay, I actually see your logic here regarding the purple over blue. I keep forgetting he can place the tile, yes, that does make a difference as you can pop it in the corner and wait. I guess my question is without a reliable 5 star match such as MN Mags or BWGS, would the more viable set up then be 5/5/3 or 4/5/4?

GrumpySmurf1002

Phaserhawk wrote:

Okay, I actually see your logic here regarding the purple over blue. I keep forgetting he can place the tile, yes, that does make a difference as you can pop it in the corner and wait. I guess my question is without a reliable 5 star match such as MN Mags or BWGS, would the more viable set up then be 5/5/3 or 4/5/4?

With OBW/Storm who still have significantly better blues, or Thor's Thunderstrike (which has moderate match5 potential), 3/5/5 makes sense also. (Technically Switcheroo would help here too, but god knows few people actually have the Bag Man).

With Torch (or another strong red user), 4/4/5, 5/4/4, and 5/3/5 are all probably better. The AoE effect of his red is nice,

4/5/4 probably makes sense otherwise, since now purple trigger chances are drastically reduced. The extra 947 tile > extra stun turn, I think, so I don't think 5/5/3 is ever worth it.

I will say, I much prefer characters like this where the 'correct' build is debatable compared to those who have obvious builds. Especially for 2*, where the covers for respec come fast and furious anyway, allows for a lot of testing/flexibility.

yogi_

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I will say, I much prefer characters like this where the 'correct' build is debatable compared to those who have obvious builds. Especially for 2*, where the covers for respec come fast and furious anyway, allows for a lot of testing/flexibility.

As much as I love "correct" builds (and I do), I thought about this too recently and it is one of the best gameplay outcomes from this set of balances.

NorthernPolarity

My "defensive skills generally suck" senses are tingling with blue. In 2* land, I'm not sure if he has a place outside of being paired with MN Mags. The awkward part about that though is that MN Mags also wants to be with C. Storm, but Hawkeye/C. Storm/MN Mags only covers 4 colors: the combo potential might be good enough regardless. So assuming the pairing with MN Mags (since why would you want to use him otherwise when you have dudes like Torch/Ares/etc), the best build would be an X/X/5 variant to abuse the MN Mags synergy. My guess would be that having a 2 turn red CD tile is more important than having a 2 turn blue CD tile (especially since you want to use blue for C. Storm in that team composition) so my bets on 5 red/3 blue/5 purple for that specific team composition. We'll have to see if his purple procs on match-4s as well to know if its worth leveling in a team comp without MN mags.

fnedude

Okay, when it says, "Match 5 or more tiles", it seems like I'm the only one reading it as ANY 5 tiles.

Everyone seems to be reading it has a "T" or a straight line w/ 5 tiles (resulting in a Crit location). (At least that is how it comes across on the BBS).

I'm reading it as you matching 2 different sets of 3 tiles could be a valid activation. (like Red-Blue-Blue column next to Blue-Red-Red column)

If that's the case, this would probably activate every battle easily, sometimes multiple times. If it does work that way, that would make a 5/3/5 or 4/4/5 build pretty nice, as a passive skill.

Unknown

fnedude wrote:

Okay, when it says, "Match 5 or more tiles", it seems like I'm the only one reading it as ANY 5 tiles.

Everyone seems to be reading it has a "T" or a straight line w/ 5 tiles (resulting in a Crit location). (At least that is how it comes across on the BBS).

I'm reading it as you matching 2 different sets of 3 tiles could be a valid activation. (like Red-Blue-Blue column next to Blue-Red-Red column)

If that's the case, this would probably activate every battle easily, sometimes multiple times. If it does work that way, that would make a 5/3/5 or 4/4/5 build pretty nice, as a passive skill.

IceIX wrote:

You match 5, get the match damage in, generate a critical tile, AND lay down a few Countdown tiles that are going to do even more.

Dayv

fnedude wrote:

Okay, when it says, "Match 5 or more tiles", it seems like I'm the only one reading it as ANY 5 tiles.

I read it that way too, but as shown above, that' snot how IceIX describes it. One of many skills with a potentially misleading description.

Unknown

Wow... what a way to completely nerf an already marginal character

Seriously... a red power which only does damage... 9 with a 2 turn countdown... now does 2/3rds the damage of storms blue without the stun and only after a long wait. Low & mid tier damage really doesn't matter... level 85 is all that does and you gutted it. Storms blue is just about perfect (compared to 2* thor, and other solid 2* roster powers).


Also the blue attack power took it in the nads... it was good single target damage plus stun. The only problem was that 2500 would often kill whatever you were trying to stun... (though not so much in the PvE nodes with the high level juggernauts where it was great to put some damage on target plus stun... or to hurt hulk while not angering him with the stun). Again compared to storms blue it was a lot different... I'll often charge storms blue then wait to use it when the other team gets one of their powers charged... giving me 4 rounds to either finish the prime offender or get the AP for 4 more rounds of stun.

Instead we get a weak **** drain effect on the other team... not even an AP steal... An even weaker stun. And a serious drop in damage potential.


Even the purple change is a complete wash... I would use him in PvE... and pair him with Patch or Hulk... this would make patch & hulk tank more colors with the obvious results... (patch regenning damage.. and hulk's famous temper tantrums). Now we get some weak countdown timers... But only on a match 5. As others have stated that pretty much requires MNMags, 3* widow, or captain america (yellow, and his place anywhere red's and blues... can turn match 4's into match 5's). Thor is a gamble... but his yellow often spawns a match 5... but that's much more of a gamble than the others listed.

The biggest problem with his purple is it can't self-trigger... he can't place his own arrows anywhere like captain can... even though his powers are nearly as expensive and delayed in effect. If you could put his 9*'s anywhere... then he could trigger his own purple power sometimes with a good red or blue placement and sacrificing the red or blue attack tile. That could pair with some strike tile generation. That's the problem though all the characters listed above don't generate strike tiles...


Yes he now has storm levels of HP's... which still makes him fragile as all get up... but now he suffers from fragile without the unique evade damage ability. And high costs on his powers... as well as needing to wait for them giving plenty of time to eliminate him with a nuke instead of dealing with his countdowns.



I feel the only change that was probably warranted was to make him into another captain america type... able to put his tiles anywhere... Unlike cap he doesn't get the AP back if the countdown lasts though... So that still makes him significantly different. Instead of the high HP energizer bunny cap... you have a glass cannon who's hard to hit and can occasionally snipe off an enemy countdown or drop his own countdowns in hard to reach places. Other than that, I would have left blue, red and purple alone. (excepting maybe the 9AP cost change).

Unknown

Uh, he can now place his CD tile..

OnesOwnGrief

iPulzzz wrote:

Uh, he can now place his CD tile..

Just let him vent. It seems like he needs this.

Unknown

I'm so glad the patch isn't here yet. I am putting Hawkeye to good use in the new PvE event and will sorely miss him after the nerf...