Customer Feedback + The Masses

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ebodibo wrote:

Jester Day wrote:

If by tons you mean perhaps three dozen people with one saying over and over again that he managed. Not really my definition of tons, unless they were extraordinarily heavy.

Hey now, it's just an idiomatic expression. He's just implying that it has been done before.

Ok... I'll apologize for all my heated messages. Let's try all try and be constructive.

This is actually why there is a joke contained in there. I know that people have gotten refunds. But I do not know if it is actually any greater amount of people who have, and what they have been refunded. Fact is, we are knowing much less of the bigger picture than we would like. I am however quite convinced that the fact that we (yes, I invested in Wolverine and Thor as well, in fact only finishing Thor after the patach balancing him) as people have bought resources. We have then decided how to use those resources. The fact that we made a worse investment than some of us expected does not mean we are in any way free from responsibility.

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Jester Day wrote:

justaplayer wrote:

Lol now its an exploit to use characters as they are in the game. If it was such a crucial problem then why did it take god knows how long to "fix it". I hardly used either of them I was working to get them playable but that isn't the point. Using strong characters isn't an exploit. No more than me not being able to play the **** ones.

The act of exploiting is simply to utilize something for your own ends, in this case, characters that were overpowered. They are now reined in, and more in line where they like them to be (supposedly a this point at least). It does in no way infer anything more.

Talk about being in denial. They screwed people that put time and effort into what they paid for when they took it away with out fair recompense. Really sad how folks like you can't understand that. If you want to go through life being a doormat have at it.

I think you are confusing being in denial with actually having a different opinion. I do not accept being sold broken things. But that is not what has happened here. You want to try and make it so. That doesn't change that it is a truth you want, instead of a truth that is.

Your statement is fair from your point of view, but so is justaplayers.

This forum is for Customer Feedback, so please just let us state our feedback. There is a separate forum for defending this game.

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Actually this is the general forum.

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The "they should never nerf, but should instead buff everyone else!" crowd is hilarious.

Okay, fine. They buff all 30 other characters. Thor and Wolverine would still end up being less powerful in comparison to those characters, and people will still moan that the characters they invested in were no longer strong enough to dominate the other 30 characters in the game because THAT'S HOW THE INTERNET WORKS. It'd the same net result as a nerf no matter how you paint it.

I've played Thor quite a bit since the rebalancing. He still hits hard (1k nukes are still solid in this game) and his Yellow creates a cornucopia of green tiles for Patch and GSBW to play with. His Green is also actually worth consideration, which is a huge step up.

I can't wait until they do the same treatment to Spider-Crutch.

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Jester Day wrote:

justaplayer wrote:

Lol now its an exploit to use characters as they are in the game. If it was such a crucial problem then why did it take god knows how long to "fix it". I hardly used either of them I was working to get them playable but that isn't the point. Using strong characters isn't an exploit. No more than me not being able to play the **** ones.

The act of exploiting is simply to utilize something for your own ends, in this case, characters that were overpowered. They are now reined in, and more in line where they like them to be (supposedly a this point at least). It does in no way infer anything more.

Talk about being in denial. They screwed people that put time and effort into what they paid for when they took it away with out fair recompense. Really sad how folks like you can't understand that. If you want to go through life being a doormat have at it.

I think you are confusing being in denial with actually having a different opinion. I do not accept being sold broken things. But that is not what has happened here. You want to try and make it so. That doesn't change that it is a truth you want, instead of a truth that is.

No they weren't overpowered that is your OPINION. The dev's didn't think they were overpowered until a bunch of whiny players begged for them to be nerfed instead of learning to play. I played against them all the time and beat them you act as if they were god or something lol.

I am not confusing anything you seem to think you have the right to tell me what the fk I can complain about. It is my money and my time. Not yours nothing is more infuriating than some twit on the internet telling you what you have the right to say and do with your own cash. I don't tell you how to spend your money don't tell me how to spend mine nor what I should expect in return for it. I

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PhantomFO wrote:

The "they should never nerf, but should instead buff everyone else!" crowd is hilarious.

Okay, fine. They buff all 30 other characters. Thor and Wolverine would still end up being less powerful in comparison to those characters, and people will still moan that the characters they invested in were no longer strong enough to dominate the other 30 characters in the game because THAT'S HOW THE INTERNET WORKS. It'd the same net result as a nerf no matter how you paint it.

I've played Thor quite a bit since the rebalancing. He still hits hard (1k nukes are still solid in this game) and his Yellow creates a cornucopia of green tiles for Patch and GSBW to play with. His Green is also actually worth consideration, which is a huge step up.

I can't wait until they do the same treatment to Spider-Crutch.

This isn't what is being said. Originally it was said to FIX the characters that aren't being played because they are broken BEFORE Nerfing any that are perceived as overpowered. Simple research shows what isn't being played. I have never said never nerf it should be used very sparingly and with compensation to anyone that gets screwed by it unless there is a TRUE exploit going on and then they should just be banned for cheating.

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No they weren't overpowered that is your OPINION. The dev's didn't think they were overpowered until a bunch of whiny players begged for them to be nerfed instead of learning to play. I played against them all the time and beat them you act as if they were god or something lol.

Please back this up with information telling us that they were fine. It is now almost a month since they put up information that they were looked at (the post with the character rebalancing queue was up january 10th), and there is little to suggest that they were actually in line with what they had envisioned. If you have any proof to the contrary, please share. In fact, them being on a watchlist hints towards them being either too weak or too strong, and they were clearly not too weak.

I am not confusing anything you seem to think you have the right to tell me what the fk I can complain about. It is my money and my time. Not yours nothing is more infuriating than some twit on the internet telling you what you have the right to say and do with your own cash. I don't tell you how to spend your money don't tell me how to spend mine nor what I should expect in return for it. I

Just as I have not in any way infringed your words on anything, you seem to have gone off the deep end here. If you open something on an open forum, you open yourself to answers and criticism. People offering a different opinion has just as much right to that as you have, within the lines of the forum policies. I have not told you what you can do or not do. I have simply pointed out that the truth in this matter is not black nor white, because there are arguments on both sides. One of these is depending on where you stand: Do you feel that they did something wrong when they changed the characters? You feel yes, I feel not really.

You feel they have done a breach of good business sense. I really don't. In the long run, my opinion matters as little (or as much) as yours, I'd wager. Out of a pure legal standpoint however, I do not see that what you actually paid for has not been delivered.

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Jester Day wrote:

You feel they have done a breach of good business sense. I really don't. In the long run, my opinion matters as little (or as much) as yours, I'd wager. Out of a pure legal standpoint however, I do not see that what you actually paid for has not been delivered.

I guess the question is, where is the tipping point for you. If they made each of Thor's power do 1 damage and nothing else, would that be reason to complain? They still get a Thor character. Obviously, that would not be ok. I think Thor is still a viable character. But for some people, he went over that tipping point. For you that point is somewhere between Thor now and 1 damage Thor. It's between those for me as well. But it is a personal opinion, not a universal one. In their eyes, Thor might as well do 1 point in damage, because they see his current design as worthless.

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justaplayer wrote:

This isn't what is being said. Originally it was said to FIX the characters that aren't being played because they are broken BEFORE Nerfing any that are perceived as overpowered. Simple research shows what isn't being played. I have never said never nerf it should be used very sparingly and with compensation to anyone that gets screwed by it unless there is a TRUE exploit going on and then they should just be banned for cheating.

From the OP:

Back out all of your character Nerfs: Nerfs should not exist in a game about super heroes. When was the last time marvel comics said hey, we should take away superpowers and make our characters weaker? If people have complaints about characters being overpowered the answer is you make the other characters BETTER. The overpowered players are the ones that everyone wants to play. I work in IT and I know after a change is made it is relatively easy to undo as long as the change has not been in affect for too long. This is a golden chance to redeem yourself and go back to the basics when this game was fun.

This sentiment has been said on these forums since they announced that Thorverine were in line for rebalancing in the first place. Yes, they could be beaten, but frankly they were by far the fastest killing combo. Wolverine saved up a few greens, build a decent red stockpile, convert greens to strikes, unleash Thor nukes buffed by Strikes that also create Strike-enhanced Yellow matches that subsidized Thor's heavy nuke. It was by far the most damaging combo in the game for the AP spent, and allowed players to move into the next match in a minimal amount of time and with minimal damage taken.

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PhantomFO wrote:

justaplayer wrote:

This isn't what is being said. Originally it was said to FIX the characters that aren't being played because they are broken BEFORE Nerfing any that are perceived as overpowered. Simple research shows what isn't being played. I have never said never nerf it should be used very sparingly and with compensation to anyone that gets screwed by it unless there is a TRUE exploit going on and then they should just be banned for cheating.

From the OP:

Back out all of your character Nerfs: Nerfs should not exist in a game about super heroes. When was the last time marvel comics said hey, we should take away superpowers and make our characters weaker? If people have complaints about characters being overpowered the answer is you make the other characters BETTER. The overpowered players are the ones that everyone wants to play. I work in IT and I know after a change is made it is relatively easy to undo as long as the change has not been in affect for too long. This is a golden chance to redeem yourself and go back to the basics when this game was fun.

This sentiment has been said on these forums since they announced that Thorverine were in line for rebalancing in the first place. Yes, they could be beaten, but frankly they were by far the fastest killing combo. Wolverine saved up a few greens, build a decent red stockpile, convert greens to strikes, unleash Thor nukes buffed by Strikes that also create Strike-enhanced Yellow matches that subsidized Thor's heavy nuke. It was by far the most damaging combo in the game for the AP spent, and allowed players to move into the next match in a minimal amount of time and with minimal damage taken.

They still shouldn't be nerfing them until the ones that cannot be played at all are fixed so they can get a feel for the balance. Thor has been ruined. Wolvie is still playable.

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Blue Shoes wrote:

Jester Day wrote:

You feel they have done a breach of good business sense. I really don't. In the long run, my opinion matters as little (or as much) as yours, I'd wager. Out of a pure legal standpoint however, I do not see that what you actually paid for has not been delivered.

I guess the question is, where is the tipping point for you. If they made each of Thor's power do 1 damage and nothing else, would that be reason to complain? They still get a Thor character. Obviously, that would not be ok. I think Thor is still a viable character. But for some people, he went over that tipping point. For you that point is somewhere between Thor now and 1 damage Thor. It's between those for me as well. But it is a personal opinion, not a universal one. In their eyes, Thor might as well do 1 point in damage, because they see his current design as worthless.

There is a point to be made for common sense to be used more than hyperbole. But you are right. And I can fully appreciate that. The question in my mind is "where did the development team envision their game to be?". And it seems to me that it had spiralled too quick, which is why these characters were brought down a notch. I still find both of them really good, just not autowinning me things.

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Personally I think its quite clear what the developers intentions are with the buffs and nerfs that have happened lately. They want the game to be more about making matches and less about throwing down skills endlessly. This desire to make them game more about matching is also reflected in their recent change to boosts.

So anyone with a skill costing less then 5 or 6 ap (not including passives) is obviously a target. This is why Ragnarok and Wolverine got nerfed and why Spiderman Classic and Magnetto classic have also been identified for a nerf. While Thor didn't excatly fall into this catagory I think it is obvious the synergy between his abilities plus his general tankyness made him a target.

I think reasonable players will also notice the distinguishing of class types (ie tanks who, like in most games, are really only good for taking damage sure they have some okay abilities but they don't compare in terms of damage output or utility to non tanks). The Tanks being Ragnarok, IM40 and Hulk, Thor. In my opinion this is why Thor got nerfed because he was a little to good at both doing damage and taking it.

Essentially there are three class types Tanks, Damage Dealers, and Utility. Tanks do high HP but less utility and damage, Damage Dealers have moderate HP good damage less utility, and Utility low hit point less damage more utility. This is obviously still being worked out my the programmers.

At the same time they are fixing the 4* issue in which the 4* were worse the 2*s. As we seen with the IW fix and X-force wolverine fix coming.

While a lot of people seem to think they should just buff everyone rather then nerf that wouldn't address what I believe thier issue was which is not enough matching being done due to skills costing too little AP. I mean you can add all the HP you want to other charecters a 2AP skill is still a 2 AP skill. And before anyone starts saying all charecter should have 2AP skills to balance, remember they are trying to make it about getting matches not spaming skills.

Both the Thor and Wolverine nerfs were small and you can sell them for a pretty penny (I assume because their is no respecing yet). As far as Ragnarok if you didn't see that coming you are in my opinion **** (not bright). Anyone who has experience playing video games can recognize a broken character long before their fixed. I personally knew Ragnarok was broken and bound to be fixed. Ragnarok in paticular broke the class conventions in that he could spam board control skills, do heavy damage, and has some of the best HP in the game. He was essentially a tank with high damage output and utility thus such a dramatic fix.

I hope the Mags and Spidey nerfs aren't too dramatic as they are some of my favorites but if I were to guess I would say that mags Red ability and Spiderman's blue are going to be changed the most due to AP costs.

However since all the changes have undoubtably pissed people off I think they should appise us all by releasing Deadpool immeditaley (ICE if your reading this do us all a favor and make it happen)

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Jester Day wrote:

Blue Shoes wrote:

Jester Day wrote:

You feel they have done a breach of good business sense. I really don't. In the long run, my opinion matters as little (or as much) as yours, I'd wager. Out of a pure legal standpoint however, I do not see that what you actually paid for has not been delivered.

I guess the question is, where is the tipping point for you. If they made each of Thor's power do 1 damage and nothing else, would that be reason to complain? They still get a Thor character. Obviously, that would not be ok. I think Thor is still a viable character. But for some people, he went over that tipping point. For you that point is somewhere between Thor now and 1 damage Thor. It's between those for me as well. But it is a personal opinion, not a universal one. In their eyes, Thor might as well do 1 point in damage, because they see his current design as worthless.

There is a point to be made for common sense to be used more than hyperbole. But you are right. And I can fully appreciate that. The question in my mind is "where did the development team envision their game to be?". And it seems to me that it had spiralled too quick, which is why these characters were brought down a notch. I still find both of them really good, just not autowinning me things.

I agree completely. When it all shakes out, I think it will be a nice even playing field. That of course includes fixing Rag. They overdid it.

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justaplayer wrote:

They still shouldn't be nerfing them until the ones that cannot be played at all are fixed so they can get a feel for the balance. Thor has been ruined. Wolvie is still playable.

How has Thor been ruined? He's no longer outright murdering fools, but his Red still hits hard, his Green is actually useful, and his Yellow followed by Widow's Purple is probably more powerful than Thorverine ever was. Unleash a level 5 yellow. Look at all the tiles that convert. Look how many potential crit tiles there are for Widow to create. Then fire that purple and watch your Match-5s clear the entire board. Your Crits will probably combine with other Crits and create even more baby Crits. Once the dust settles, fire your Sniper Rifle and watch even more cascading death.

Now, Ragnarok? THAT was a nerfing into uselessness.

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PhantomFO wrote:

The "they should never nerf, but should instead buff everyone else!" crowd is hilarious.

I find people who can't understand the concept of balancing hilarious too.

Contrary to popular belief, the best method of balancing isn't taking the two strongest people, and kicking them in the balls until they become impotent.

Balancing is about giving everyone a fair chance. Those weaker characters like Moonstone and Captain, they should be buffed. That's how balancing works. Give those weaker characters a chance to be stronger, give them a fighting chance.

Will "impotenizing" the 2 strongest characters work too? Sadly, yes. But that's the easy way out, not the right way.

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PhantomFO wrote:

justaplayer wrote:

They still shouldn't be nerfing them until the ones that cannot be played at all are fixed so they can get a feel for the balance. Thor has been ruined. Wolvie is still playable.

How has Thor been ruined? He's no longer outright murdering fools, but his Red still hits hard, his Green is actually useful, and his Yellow followed by Widow's Purple is probably more powerful than Thorverine ever was. Unleash a level 5 yellow. Look at all the tiles that convert. Look how many potential crit tiles there are for Widow to create. Then fire that purple and watch your Match-5s clear the entire board. Your Crits will probably combine with other Crits and create even more baby Crits. Once the dust settles, fire your Sniper Rifle and watch even more cascading death.

Now, Ragnarok? THAT was a nerfing into uselessness.

This has been explained a zillion times now use search.

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mechgouki wrote:

PhantomFO wrote:

The "they should never nerf, but should instead buff everyone else!" crowd is hilarious.

I find people who can't understand the concept of balancing hilarious too.

Contrary to popular belief, the best method of balancing isn't taking the two strongest people, and kicking them in the balls until they become impotent.

Balancing is about giving everyone a fair chance. Those weaker characters like Moonstone and Captain, they should be buffed. That's how balancing works. Give those weaker characters a chance to be stronger, give them a fighting chance.

Will "impotenizing" the 2 strongest characters work too? Sadly, yes. But that's the easy way out, not the right way.

So, would you say that Thor is worse than Cap? Or Wolverine is worse than Moonstone?

I don't really see how Thor and Wolverine can be impotent and better than the alternatives at the same time.

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Sadly, Cappy and Moonstone are no more useful than they were before the nerfs to the others.

Only further proves my point that these guys should be buffed.

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RockMonster wrote:

So, would you say that Thor is worse than Cap? Or Wolverine is worse than Moonstone?

Nu-Wolverine's worse than Moonstone with 13 red on the board. Sort of, if you pretend Wolverine with 13 red doesn't obviously have 10-13 strike tiles out. I had to check, because I'm pretty sad. She's also better at getting a brief single target stun for 17 AP. Balance Spider-Man to line up with that, Demiurge, I dare you.

I know, countdowns. Control Shift is fun against Deadly Shot, but hardly necessary. Keep meaning to check it switches both effects of Sunder correctly. That might nearly be worth it.

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I find it ludicrous that some select people are open to the idea of nerfing powerful characters, but laugh at the idea of buffing up weaker characters.

Am I missing something here?