Customer Feedback + The Masses

Twysta

Did he just say nerfs are never needed in an online game?

Really?
REALLY?

Hold me back.

Unknown

Veracity wrote:

Mountains will tremble.

...briefly.

Unknown

Hal Jordan 8 wrote:

.
Nerfs are only needed in an online game.

Fixed

Unknown

He is true though. Why nerf something when you can strengthen everything else. Just take a look at the car crash that is diablo 3. Horrible horrible mechanics. Some things were too powerful so they scaled that part down. Now they are scaling all damage up as well as enemies so it looks like we're getting stronger but the enemies have gotten stronger too which kind of nets everything out. Ragnarok has a 2 red ability? make thors ability 2 red as well. Enemies die too fast because it's too easy to kill them with cheap massive damage? Give everyone 15000 life. So simple.

I guess the problem with ragnarok really was the lockdown of him and storm. Rags makes green, storm matches green and uses her powers to get more gems to activate more stuff for her and ragnarok. I guess then make some passives do damage. Storm has a passive that dealt damage. That just means that you also use storm or have spideys webs cost 1 blue and lock down just storm so they can't combo off her. You know....stuff like that. In such an environment you would be using more of dakken and storm as a defensive maneuver. Have dakkens healing activate EVEN when stunned. Not for 200 life but for 800 or something huge. At the rate dakken is healing, I have faster healing powers than dakken.

NorthernPolarity

pulis wrote:

He is true though. Why nerf something when you can strengthen everything else. Just take a look at the car crash that is diablo 3. Horrible horrible mechanics. Some things were too powerful so they scaled that part down. Now they are scaling all damage up as well as enemies so it looks like we're getting stronger but the enemies have gotten stronger too which kind of nets everything out. Ragnarok has a 2 red ability? make thors ability 2 red as well. Enemies die too fast because it's too easy to kill them with cheap massive damage? Give everyone 15000 life. So simple.

I guess the problem with ragnarok really was the lockdown of him and storm. Rags makes green, storm matches green and uses her powers to get more gems to activate more stuff for her and ragnarok. I guess then make some passives do damage. Storm has a passive that dealt damage. That just means that you also use storm or have spideys webs cost 1 blue and lock down just storm so they can't combo off her. You know....stuff like that. In such an environment you would be using more of dakken and storm as a defensive maneuver. Have dakkens healing activate EVEN when stunned. Not for 200 life but for 800 or something huge. At the rate dakken is healing, I have faster healing powers than dakken.

So what you're saying is, instead of nerfing 2 characters, you want to modify the powers and hit points for each of the other 31 characters in this game? How is that simple?

Twysta

Genius.

Unknown

Is everyone nuts? So we should waste time and money to upgrade guys just to have them trashed with nothing in return? The only overpowered guy to ever be nerfed was rags. Sorry you won't get anywhere arguing me on this.

Unknown

pulis wrote:

He is true though. Why nerf something when you can strengthen everything else. Just take a look at the car crash that is diablo 3. Horrible horrible mechanics. Some things were too powerful so they scaled that part down. Now they are scaling all damage up as well as enemies so it looks like we're getting stronger but the enemies have gotten stronger too which kind of nets everything out. Ragnarok has a 2 red ability? make thors ability 2 red as well. Enemies die too fast because it's too easy to kill them with cheap massive damage? Give everyone 15000 life. So simple.

I guess the problem with ragnarok really was the lockdown of him and storm. Rags makes green, storm matches green and uses her powers to get more gems to activate more stuff for her and ragnarok. I guess then make some passives do damage. Storm has a passive that dealt damage. That just means that you also use storm or have spideys webs cost 1 blue and lock down just storm so they can't combo off her. You know....stuff like that. In such an environment you would be using more of dakken and storm as a defensive maneuver. Have dakkens healing activate EVEN when stunned. Not for 200 life but for 800 or something huge. At the rate dakken is healing, I have faster healing powers than dakken.

Do you realize how much can go wrong when you buff 30 characters at once? It's pretty much guaranteed that would make a couple of them even more unbalanced than Rag ever was, and then you have to buff 30 characters again and increase the health pools across the board. Within 6 months, every character would have half a million HP, every ability would cost 1 AP and every character would be healing for tens of thousands per turn. You're being ridiculous.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

pulis wrote:

He is true though. Why nerf something when you can strengthen everything else. Just take a look at the car crash that is diablo 3. Horrible horrible mechanics. Some things were too powerful so they scaled that part down. Now they are scaling all damage up as well as enemies so it looks like we're getting stronger but the enemies have gotten stronger too which kind of nets everything out. Ragnarok has a 2 red ability? make thors ability 2 red as well. Enemies die too fast because it's too easy to kill them with cheap massive damage? Give everyone 15000 life. So simple.

I guess the problem with ragnarok really was the lockdown of him and storm. Rags makes green, storm matches green and uses her powers to get more gems to activate more stuff for her and ragnarok. I guess then make some passives do damage. Storm has a passive that dealt damage. That just means that you also use storm or have spideys webs cost 1 blue and lock down just storm so they can't combo off her. You know....stuff like that. In such an environment you would be using more of dakken and storm as a defensive maneuver. Have dakkens healing activate EVEN when stunned. Not for 200 life but for 800 or something huge. At the rate dakken is healing, I have faster healing powers than dakken.

So what you're saying is, instead of nerfing 2 characters, you want to modify the powers and hit points for each of the other 31 characters in this game? How is that simple?

It's not simple, all i'm saying it, you don't have to nerf. You can strengthen everything else. Make many multiple tweaks week after week. Ragnarok too strong, make every character a little stronger. Ragnarok storm combo still too strong. Change powers to make it so that storm can get locked down or ragnarok can get locked down. Just something to stop the combo. Something like daredevils power where doing a green match stuns the team for 1 round or something. Or deals 3000 damage to the whole team.

Unknown

Well, lets look at it this way, there's going to be around 20 nerfs for sure. Rags first, then thor and wolvie, then grey suit black widow, then spidey, then the 2 magnetos, dr. dooms black power ability, ares' yellow ability, hulks anger ability. 20 boosts is as good as 20 nerfs. I would much rather see an increase in power than a decrease while at the same time, balancing the game out.

Eddiemon

pulis wrote:

It's not simple, all i'm saying it, you don't have to nerf. You can strengthen everything else. Make many multiple tweaks week after week. Ragnarok too strong, make every character a little stronger. Ragnarok storm combo still too strong. Change powers to make it so that storm can get locked down or ragnarok can get locked down. Just something to stop the combo. Something like daredevils power where doing a green match stuns the team for 1 round or something. Or deals 3000 damage to the whole team.

Or, and I know you are struggling with this, you can nerf the one completely broken ability.

Ragnarok one round killing everyone with grey widow or locking out the board with modern storm?
A. nerf that one character.
B. increase everyone's health so that grey widow is no longer able to do significant damage. Now everyone else is underpowered so buff everyone else. If you beff everyone else enough rag ends up in his current relative position for a hell of a lot of work. Oh and hold off on releasing any new characters for a while because rewriting everything needs to be done so the new character is the right power.
C. Implement a hard counter to a first round 2 red activated ability. Even if you can find one that isn't broken, you now force everyone to carry that character on defence to deter 20 second losses. The game gets so much better apparently. And daredevils power takes 3 turns to deploy if all the matches are available, so it needs to be way more powerful, in fact it would really need to be passive given the speed of grey widows kill.

You can choose A, the simple, logical choice, or you can choose breaking everything else for no reason I can understand. There is no benefit to the game of having a 2nd round kill ability.

Unknown

Here's my issue with nerfs in this particular game. When you spend money or tons of time working on something, its like your baby. Your raise their levels, give it a career path outlined the guidance counselor on the stats sheet, play with it until they are strong and can stand on their feet. Only to have a the government come in and say, you're now to good for your own good. You front line awesome dude, prepared to be neutered. You will now forever be a benchwarmer or to be brought out for special occasions with buffs to relive your glory days.

I have played another game like this where they just adjusted the other cards to be better, and I liked that system much better. At least no one felt like their time or money was taken away from them.

And really... I played a ton and never thought the Thorvorine combo was that impressive before. It never stopped me from attacking them and I'm a relatively new player (since the 1st of the year). I also didn't see them nearly as much as everyone said. Instead we are now back to seeing Iron Man, Storm and Black Window everywhere again. How does that stimulate a diverse set of teams.

They **** 3 star cards should have been made better.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

pulis wrote:

It's not simple, all i'm saying it, you don't have to nerf. You can strengthen everything else. Make many multiple tweaks week after week. Ragnarok too strong, make every character a little stronger. Ragnarok storm combo still too strong. Change powers to make it so that storm can get locked down or ragnarok can get locked down. Just something to stop the combo. Something like daredevils power where doing a green match stuns the team for 1 round or something. Or deals 3000 damage to the whole team.

Or, and I know you are struggling with this, you can nerf the one completely broken ability.

Ragnarok one round killing everyone with grey widow or locking out the board with modern storm?
A. nerf that one character.
B. increase everyone's health so that grey widow is no longer able to do significant damage. Now everyone else is underpowered so buff everyone else. If you beff everyone else enough rag ends up in his current relative position for a hell of a lot of work. Oh and hold off on releasing any new characters for a while because rewriting everything needs to be done so the new character is the right power.
C. Implement a hard counter to a first round 2 red activated ability. Even if you can find one that isn't broken, you now force everyone to carry that character on defence to deter 20 second losses. The game gets so much better apparently. And daredevils power takes 3 turns to deploy if all the matches are available, so it needs to be way more powerful, in fact it would really need to be passive given the speed of grey widows kill.

You can choose A, the simple, logical choice, or you can choose breaking everything else for no reason I can understand. There is no benefit to the game of having a 2nd round kill ability.

numerous characters are unplayable because they are weak so your logic is flawed.

itstime1234

ebodibo wrote:

Here's my issue with nerfs in this particular game. When you spend money or tons of time working on something, its like your baby. Your raise their levels, give it a career path outlined the guidance counselor on the stats sheet, play with it until they are strong and can stand on their feet. Only to have a the government come in and say, you're now to good for your own good. You front line awesome dude, prepared to be neutered. You will now forever be a benchwarmer or to be brought out for special occasions with buffs to relive your glory days.

I have played another game like this where they just adjusted the other cards to be better, and I liked that system much better. At least no one felt like their time or money was taken away from them.

And really... I played a ton and never thought the Thorvorine combo was that impressive before. It never stopped me from attacking them and I'm a relatively new player (since the 1st of the year). I also didn't see them nearly as much as everyone said. Instead we are now back to seeing Iron Man, Storm and Black Window everywhere again. How does that stimulate a diverse set of teams.

They **** 3 star cards should have been made better.

You really need to get out more. End of the day its a game. If a character is your baby going through to manhood, something is very much lacking.

Eddiemon

pulis wrote:

Well, lets look at it this way, there's going to be around 20 nerfs for sure. Rags first, then thor and wolvie, then grey suit black widow, then spidey, then the 2 magnetos, dr. dooms black power ability, ares' yellow ability, hulks anger ability. 20 boosts is as good as 20 nerfs. I would much rather see an increase in power than a decrease while at the same time, balancing the game out.

There are going to be hundreds of nerfs if the game lasts long enough. And hundreds of buffs. That's healthy.

Turning it into the mad power race you desire where everything gets buffed in a power race renders the game portion trivial. Especially given that the base power you need everyone buffed to is unnerved rag. That level of power is insane and makes the game board practically pointless when every match ends in 2 turns.

Unknown

itstime1234 wrote:

ebodibo wrote:

Here's my issue with nerfs in this particular game. When you spend money or tons of time working on something, its like your baby. Your raise their levels, give it a career path outlined the guidance counselor on the stats sheet, play with it until they are strong and can stand on their feet. Only to have a the government come in and say, you're now to good for your own good. You front line awesome dude, prepared to be neutered. You will now forever be a benchwarmer or to be brought out for special occasions with buffs to relive your glory days.

I have played another game like this where they just adjusted the other cards to be better, and I liked that system much better. At least no one felt like their time or money was taken away from them.

And really... I played a ton and never thought the Thorvorine combo was that impressive before. It never stopped me from attacking them and I'm a relatively new player (since the 1st of the year). I also didn't see them nearly as much as everyone said. Instead we are now back to seeing Iron Man, Storm and Black Window everywhere again. How does that stimulate a diverse set of teams.

They **** 3 star cards should have been made better.

You really need to get out more. End of the day its a game. If a character is your baby going through to manhood, something is very much lacking.

Relax, its a metaphor.

Point being, why would anyone want to put more money into a game when what the pay for will continue to get worse.

Unknown

itstime1234 wrote:

ebodibo wrote:

Here's my issue with nerfs in this particular game. When you spend money or tons of time working on something, its like your baby. Your raise their levels, give it a career path outlined the guidance counselor on the stats sheet, play with it until they are strong and can stand on their feet. Only to have a the government come in and say, you're now to good for your own good. You front line awesome dude, prepared to be neutered. You will now forever be a benchwarmer or to be brought out for special occasions with buffs to relive your glory days.

I have played another game like this where they just adjusted the other cards to be better, and I liked that system much better. At least no one felt like their time or money was taken away from them.

And really... I played a ton and never thought the Thorvorine combo was that impressive before. It never stopped me from attacking them and I'm a relatively new player (since the 1st of the year). I also didn't see them nearly as much as everyone said. Instead we are now back to seeing Iron Man, Storm and Black Window everywhere again. How does that stimulate a diverse set of teams.

They **** 3 star cards should have been made better.

You really need to get out more. End of the day its a game. If a character is your baby going through to manhood, something is very much lacking.

At the end of the day he paid for game and expects what he paid for your really ought to think about that a bit.

Eddiemon

justaplayer wrote:

Eddiemon wrote:

pulis wrote:

It's not simple, all i'm saying it, you don't have to nerf. You can strengthen everything else. Make many multiple tweaks week after week. Ragnarok too strong, make every character a little stronger. Ragnarok storm combo still too strong. Change powers to make it so that storm can get locked down or ragnarok can get locked down. Just something to stop the combo. Something like daredevils power where doing a green match stuns the team for 1 round or something. Or deals 3000 damage to the whole team.

Or, and I know you are struggling with this, you can nerf the one completely broken ability.

Ragnarok one round killing everyone with grey widow or locking out the board with modern storm?
A. nerf that one character.
B. increase everyone's health so that grey widow is no longer able to do significant damage. Now everyone else is underpowered so buff everyone else. If you beff everyone else enough rag ends up in his current relative position for a hell of a lot of work. Oh and hold off on releasing any new characters for a while because rewriting everything needs to be done so the new character is the right power.
C. Implement a hard counter to a first round 2 red activated ability. Even if you can find one that isn't broken, you now force everyone to carry that character on defence to deter 20 second losses. The game gets so much better apparently. And daredevils power takes 3 turns to deploy if all the matches are available, so it needs to be way more powerful, in fact it would really need to be passive given the speed of grey widows kill.

You can choose A, the simple, logical choice, or you can choose breaking everything else for no reason I can understand. There is no benefit to the game of having a 2nd round kill ability.

numerous characters are unplayable because they are weak so your logic is flawed.

I don't get your logic.
Weak characters mean that there is benefit to a 2 round kill? I don't get how you associate the two?

I don't get how weak characters are even relevant to the never ever nerf anyone argument. Unless you somehow extrapolated from 'you sometimes need to nerf people' as meaning that 'you can never buff people', where those two statements don't have anything in common.

Unknown

justaplayer wrote:

itstime1234 wrote:

ebodibo wrote:

Here's my issue with nerfs in this particular game. When you spend money or tons of time working on something, its like your baby. Your raise their levels, give it a career path outlined the guidance counselor on the stats sheet, play with it until they are strong and can stand on their feet. Only to have a the government come in and say, you're now to good for your own good. You front line awesome dude, prepared to be neutered. You will now forever be a benchwarmer or to be brought out for special occasions with buffs to relive your glory days.

I have played another game like this where they just adjusted the other cards to be better, and I liked that system much better. At least no one felt like their time or money was taken away from them.

And really... I played a ton and never thought the Thorvorine combo was that impressive before. It never stopped me from attacking them and I'm a relatively new player (since the 1st of the year). I also didn't see them nearly as much as everyone said. Instead we are now back to seeing Iron Man, Storm and Black Window everywhere again. How does that stimulate a diverse set of teams.

They **** 3 star cards should have been made better.

You really need to get out more. End of the day its a game. If a character is your baby going through to manhood, something is very much lacking.

At the end of the day he paid for game and expects what he paid for your really ought to think about that a bit.

+1

Thanks JP, that was my point exactly. I was just trying to appeal to the devs outside of 1s and 0s.

Unknown

I guess at the end of it all, I agree with the ragnarok nerf but in reality, I would be fine even without the nerf. Granted I would just be playing ragnarok and storm all day long with some kind of healer. Although in reality, if you use spidey, the ragnarok storm combo will never happen. you really need 12 red gems to keep the combo going. 10 maybe can start the combo but lower is not very sustainable. Spiderman can lock down that stuff easy if he stays with the 2 blue web ability. I use him all the time as I want to make sure my team is refreshed.

But can someone tell me why Thor was nerfed so much? His red from becoming useful has become almost completely useless. The yellow is really only there to feed the green which now has the most power. They didn't even increase the green, they kept it the same but it looks soooo powerful now because the other 2 powers exist only to feed the green.