**** Ant-Man (Scott Lang) ****

notamutant

While he seems great on offense, I think he will be even more useless than Cage on defense. Cage doesn't save up black for his jab, so he rarely does any damage with it. Likewise, I find the chances of the AI getting and using the purple or blue moves twice before they expire unlikely, so grow will never be used on defense, making him a much weaker character. He would still be a bit annoying, but I would never skip him like I would HB or the Thing. Obviously at high points people don't care, but when climbing he is not a deterrent at all.

simonsez

notamutant wrote:

I find the chances of the AI getting and using the purple or blue moves twice before they expire unlikely

I'm not sure I agree. The AI doesn't seem to focus on one particular color; it tends to acquire all colors somewhat randomly. So the chances that it will get 9 purple and 9 blue within a couple moves of each other, don't seem all that remote.

notamutant

simonsez wrote:

notamutant wrote:

I find the chances of the AI getting and using the purple or blue moves twice before they expire unlikely

I'm not sure I agree. The AI doesn't seem to focus on one particular color; it tends to acquire all colors somewhat randomly. So the chances that it will get 9 purple and 9 blue within a couple moves of each other, don't seem all that remote.

Are you sure it can use the blue move after using the purple? I thought it had to both be the same trap/countdown tile used, meaning 18 of one color. I may be wrong.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

notamutant wrote:

I find the chances of the AI getting and using the purple or blue moves twice before they expire unlikely

I'm not sure I agree. The AI doesn't seem to focus on one particular color; it tends to acquire all colors somewhat randomly. So the chances that it will get 9 purple and 9 blue within a couple moves of each other, don't seem all that remote.

Having 9 of each does not allow Grow to trigger. You need 18 of a color to use Grow, using does not change .

johnnyzero

simonsez wrote:

I'm not sure I agree. The AI doesn't seem to focus on one particular color; it tends to acquire all colors somewhat randomly. So the chances that it will get 9 purple and 9 blue within a couple moves of each other, don't seem all that remote.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm reading it is that if you use the purple power, only the 2nd use of the purple power becomes "grow." Same with the blue. So if the AI collects 9 purple and 9 blue and uses them both, it would just do one instance of "Pym Particles" and one instance of "Small Time Crooks."

Also, am I understanding the "Small Time Crooks" power correctly in that the tile theft happens WHILE the countdown is out (like Vision or Starlord's countdowns) as oppose to when the countdown finishes. If that's the case, Hood's black would be a TERRIBLE move to use with him (but Bagman on the other hand...)

Malcrof

Now that i fully understand how those powers work ( i hope), i've decided 5/3/5 would be my ideal build. All those strike tiles, and if the ants are like any other , the more strikes the more damage.

He can create strikes on multiple colors.. I like this!

simonsez

johnnyzero wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm reading it is that if you use the purple power, only the 2nd use of the purple power becomes "grow." Same with the blue.

You could be right. This isn't the easiest ability set to parse and make sense of.

Malcrof

simonsez wrote:

johnnyzero wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I'm reading it is that if you use the purple power, only the 2nd use of the purple power becomes "grow." Same with the blue.

You could be right. This isn't the easiest ability set to parse and make sense of.

From the wording, he is right. 18 AP to make Grow happen,

when the tile is on the board, the ability becomes grow.

So like cage's black, it takes some time, but is brutal when you get it.

Even without the 18, it is still useful at 9!

Polares

After reading his powers I cant help thinking in how 4hor was hit too hard with the nerf bat. So, if we pay nine we start producing attack tiles, 3 171, not bad, and if you pay 9 more he does 10k. How is that different from what 4hor does? And why she only does 7k? And he has two different abilities that can do 10k! 4hor needs blue and then red...

Apart from that, he seems great, he can produce attack tiles, steal tiles from other players, create strike tiles, and do some serious damage, if he had cascade potential he would be perfect . So very solid, probably best 4 since IMHB (Carnage is too wild).

I dont know if AI is going to play him well, but at least purple and blue doesnt overwrite each other, ala Vision.

Ps: what happened to those other chars that were going to create charged tiles?

Unknown

I could be wrong, but I think Ant-Man will be more dangerous than many are expecting. His powers are fairly cheap and do progressively more damage each turn if not nullified. Many scenarios in which he causes 2-4K match damage each turn relatively quickly. On offense, the AI will virtually ignore his trap/cd tiles, and on defense, his various tiles will limit/dictate the opponents' moves (and he has decently high hp). It's not what his powers do on turn 1 that will be scary, it's what they will do on turn 3 if not nullified.

The thing I like most is his relatively cheap powers will keep escalating while you are free to start collecting more AP for other stuff. The opponent is stuck suffering increasing damage or otherwise dealing with what Ant-Man did 3 moves ago, while I'm collecting AP to fire the next round of powers.

Pylgrim

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Falcon's purple and the Ultron/Sentries are the only ones who can really overwhelm a board, but I think that's too niche to need 5 blue.

You're forgetting Storm's black and Carnage's passive.

Malcrof

Pylgrim wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Falcon's purple and the Ultron/Sentries are the only ones who can really overwhelm a board, but I think that's too niche to need 5 blue.

You're forgetting Storm's black and Carnage's passive.

Think we can add Gamora's black in there when she is tanking all of her colors..

Isay_Isay

Malcrof wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Falcon's purple and the Ultron/Sentries are the only ones who can really overwhelm a board, but I think that's too niche to need 5 blue.

You're forgetting Storm's black and Carnage's passive.

Think we can add Gamora's black in there when she is tanking all of her colors..

Or Ant-Man himself once his purple or yellow get going

Unknown

Stop saying Ultron, you don't want to clear all the tiles, you want them to stay in the sweet spot so the drones do nothing.

I need to re-read the powers but is the trap tile for purp attacks on a purp? If so it wil lbe easy eventually to tell which tile it is.
- Unreall

notamutant

Unreallystic wrote:

Stop saying Ultron, you don't want to clear all the tiles, you want them to stay in the sweet spot so the drones do nothing.

I need to re-read the powers but is the trap tile for purp attacks on a purp? If so it wil lbe easy eventually to tell which tile it is.
- Unreall

Yes. Even if you knew where the trap tile was though, it would likely be in a hard to reach place if it lasted long enough that it was the only tile left without an attack tile on purple.

Malcrof

notamutant wrote:

Unreallystic wrote:

Stop saying Ultron, you don't want to clear all the tiles, you want them to stay in the sweet spot so the drones do nothing.

I need to re-read the powers but is the trap tile for purp attacks on a purp? If so it wil lbe easy eventually to tell which tile it is.
- Unreall

Yes. Even if you knew where the trap tile was though, it would likely be in a hard to reach place if it lasted long enough that it was the only tile left without an attack tile on purple.

If he could steal Ultron bombs so when they explode they hurt Ultron.. i would pay for a character with that ability...

Unknown

I keep thinking about who would you pair him with - that would determine which way to go. Looking at the 4*s, yellow looks to be the weakest color...Fury has a strong yellow, but the same colors, so you won't play them together. Carnage is an obvious pairing, I feel like HB might be a decent pairing. Thing would be a good pairing, trying to get rid of tiles could easily lead someone doing something stupid that triggers Thing. On the lower end, Patch looks good, but low health makes him 'meh'.

Anyway long story short, the more I look into it, yellow seems to be his cornerstone power...like it may not be his best, but it will get cast no matter what, you can easily 'fall' into 7 yellow...so having two extra turns means there is a good chance you can keep it up the entire or near the entire fight.

At that point its really making verse stealing. The instances where you want to steal a bunch of tiles are actually unimportant. Boosted Storm hurts, but its rare, and none of those tiles are so strong that you really want them like Patch of Thing...you realyl just want to blow them off the board. Falcon...unimportant in general...and yes I cape up for him when the time is right...talking 4*s, falcon can sit down at the Baby Avenger table. CMags, worth noting, but yellow isn't an endgame, just an annoyance that within one match and a couple CDs will be gone.
I vote 'making'

So I'd go 535.

I'd entertain going 355 if I had Carnage and went for 5 in his black and teamed them with Devil Dinosaur or Iron Fist...low AP attacks to trigger carnage with Antman changing them over. could also go Carnage/Antman/PX if you really wanted to piss people off.
- Unreall

Malcrof

Unreallystic wrote:

I keep thinking about who would you pair him with - that would determine which way to go. Looking at the 4*s, yellow looks to be the weakest color...Fury has a strong yellow, but the same colors, so you won't play them together. Carnage is an obvious pairing, I feel like HB might be a decent pairing. Thing would be a good pairing, trying to get rid of tiles could easily lead someone doing something stupid that triggers Thing. On the lower end, Patch looks good, but low health makes him 'meh'.

Anyway long story short, the more I look into it, yellow seems to be his cornerstone power...like it may not be his best, but it will get cast no matter what, you can easily 'fall' into 7 yellow...so having two extra turns means there is a good chance you can keep it up the entire or near the entire fight.

At that point its really making verse stealing. The instances where you want to steal a bunch of tiles are actually unimportant. Boosted Storm hurts, but its rare, and none of those tiles are so strong that you really want them like Patch of Thing...you realyl just want to blow them off the board. Falcon...unimportant in general...and yes I cape up for him when the time is right...talking 4*s, falcon can sit down at the Baby Avenger table. CMags, worth noting, but yellow isn't an endgame, just an annoyance that within one match and a couple CDs will be gone.
I vote 'making'

So I'd go 535.

Pair with HB and Thing. he needs beef in front to get 18ap ...

I'd entertain going 355 if I had Carnage and went for 5 in his black and teamed them with Devil Dinosaur or Iron Fist...low AP attacks to trigger carnage with Antman changing them over. could also go Carnage/Antman/PX if you really wanted to piss people off.
- Unreall

Buret0

So is this pretty clearly a 5/3/5?

When purple and yellow are both maxed and active, that's a ton of damage output from the ants, then when you have the AP to regrow, that's a pymkitty of damage.

simonsez

Unreallystic wrote:

Stop saying Ultron, you don't want to clear all the tiles, you want them to stay in the sweet spot so the drones do nothing.

That's not a tightrope I'm interested in trying to walk. I don't care about the Fighers hitting some cascades. It's the Gunners spamming crits that are going to ruin my day.