MPQ Community Video - New! 'Season XVI' June, 2015

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  • TheOncomingStorm
    TheOncomingStorm Posts: 489 Mover and Shaker
    arktos1971 wrote:
    Ducky : It's a good move indeed. But when you talk about tiny percentages of luck, it remains insignificant.

    The Devs are not bold enough IMO.

    When you want to succeed, you need boldness, innovation...

    Building a strategy around stats does not lead to a significant success.

    Let me get this straight. You don't think their successful? They've kept you all this time. They probably deserve a trophy just for that.

    Ironically, they supposedly lost phantron. I still think he was just an alias of one of the developers.
  • TheOncomingStorm
    TheOncomingStorm Posts: 489 Mover and Shaker
    IceIX wrote:
    slidecage wrote:
    Man that means almost going to draw nothing but 2 stars BLAH.. seems odds are even worse this way
    Current odds in the Cover Pack is 13x 2* characters at 6.5% each or an 84.5% chance of a 2*. Vault odds are 185/300, or 61.6% to start. It's simply better odds overall through the Vault of pulling a non-2*.

    I never thought I'd see the day. Mpq actually underselling a new feature.

    The vault is better than you are letting on. Currently, odds of a 2* are 84.5%. However, if you get a 2* and draw again the odds remain unchanged at 84.5% because each draw is an independent event.

    Unlike the Vault, where each time you draw a 2* it is removed from the rewards pool. Therefore, the odds of drawing another 2* goes down, while the odds of drawing a non-2* goes up.

    Hence, not only are the odds better for the Vault, but the token redemption mechanics are a landmark improvement over the other token systems.
  • Sherlock1
    Sherlock1 Posts: 81 Match Maker
    TazFTW wrote:
    shriekingwillow wrote:
    TazFTW wrote:
    Idea #2: A shared Vault for Alliances where Alliance members draw out of the same Vault.

    Now THAT is a good idea, potential 200 draws out of a 300 prize pool, at least someone in the alliance should pull some good prizes. Good prizes already gone? Save up for the next one in 5 days. Has a very Russian Roulette feel to it as far as when to jump in and spend your tokens.

    Aye. Using IceIX's vault sample, there could be anywhere between 3-12 Iron Fist covers when he's featured. I need Iron Fist, do I open ASAP to grab him before the others do or do I wait for the other members of my Alliance to "take out the trash" giving me a better shot.

    Alliances could do group openings, "With the first pull in the 2015 Vault Opening, TazFTW selects Moonstone Purple..."


    It can be a nice idea, BUT only if alliances got locked at the beginning of each event, preventing people from changing of alliances, because some "mercs" may "steal" good stuffs of their temp alliances...
    Now, this vault seems interesting, as we can see what kind of top characters are left for picking: with all these explanations, i will wait a few events before making a definitive opinion on it icon_e_smile.gif
  • IceIX
    IceIX ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 4,319 Site Admin
    TheOncomingStorm wrote:
    I never thought I'd see the day. Mpq actually underselling a new feature.

    The vault is better than you are letting on. Currently, odds of a 2* are 84.5%. However, if you get a 2* and draw again the odds remain unchanged at 84.5% because each draw is an independent event.

    Unlike the Vault, where each time you draw a 2* it is removed from the rewards pool. Therefore, the odds of drawing another 2* goes down, while the odds of drawing a non-2* goes up.

    Hence, not only are the odds better for the Vault, but the token redemption mechanics are a landmark improvement over the other token systems.
    Well, sure, and completely correct. But I was trying to stay as unmathy as possible there. icon_e_smile.gif
  • Sherlock1
    Sherlock1 Posts: 81 Match Maker
    IceIX wrote:
    TheOncomingStorm wrote:
    I never thought I'd see the day. Mpq actually underselling a new feature.

    The vault is better than you are letting on. Currently, odds of a 2* are 84.5%. However, if you get a 2* and draw again the odds remain unchanged at 84.5% because each draw is an independent event.

    Unlike the Vault, where each time you draw a 2* it is removed from the rewards pool. Therefore, the odds of drawing another 2* goes down, while the odds of drawing a non-2* goes up.

    Hence, not only are the odds better for the Vault, but the token redemption mechanics are a landmark improvement over the other token systems.
    Well, sure, and completely correct. But I was trying to stay as unmathy as possible there. icon_e_smile.gif


    Now, you just need to develop a new great thing, a "Trade week" once a year, where players can trade covers, according to specific rules (covers can be traded if same "level", for instance) icon_lol.gif
  • Raffoon
    Raffoon Posts: 884
    IceIX wrote:
    DrStrange-616 wrote:
    Well, poo. Doesn't that set-up sort of defeat the purpose of the Vault? The idea that you won't get dupes? That if you draw something, you won't get that again and your odds of something else increase?
    Not really. Look at it this way:
    Cover Packs have a 2% chance of drawing Beast. Which means it's really a ~.65-ish chance of drawing Beast Green. Now, you could draw 300 covers and never ever see that Beast Green. You could draw 5 of them. Hard to say, random is random.

    With the Vault, you see that in that particular pack is a Beast Green. You know that right off the chances of drawing that Green is 1/300 (maybe more, could be another one sitting over in the random 3* area). If you draw 300 covers, you *will* get that Beast Green. Very likely in less than 300 covers really, but that's the absolute ceiling.

    And if you pull a new Vault and there are 2 Beast Yellows and a Beast Blue? You can reset the Vault for some Hero Points if you want. Which is currently set to the same amount as 5 pulls in the Cover Pack (1000 Hero Points). Which, sure, may have gotten you that cover you wanted in the Comic Pack but in all likelihood (statistically) would have drawn you 4x 2*s and something else.

    I look at it this way:

    If I want Beast Green, I have a 1/300 chance of drawing it at the beginning of the week. At the end of the week I have a 1/290 chance of drawing it.

    How is that exciting? 300 is way too many items for any kind of increase in odds to feel even the tiniest bit meaningful.

    If there were 50 items, it might be more exciting. 25 would seem right around the sweet spot. 15 might be a bit too far in the players' favor (but would also end up with a whole lot of additional small purchases as players buy out the last 5 slots to guarantee a 4*).

    Edit: Here's another scenario. Say that I want to draw any 4* at all. With 3 covers in there, I have a 3/300 = 1% chance of drawing one. Now, let's say that I use 150 TOKENS A COMPLETELY ABSURD AMOUNT OF TOKENS TO USE AT ONCE. If I don't draw any 4*'s, I will now have a 3/150 = 2% chance to draw a 4*. Again, how is this an exciting feature?
  • TheOncomingStorm
    TheOncomingStorm Posts: 489 Mover and Shaker
    Raffoon wrote:
    IceIX wrote:
    DrStrange-616 wrote:
    Well, poo. Doesn't that set-up sort of defeat the purpose of the Vault? The idea that you won't get dupes? That if you draw something, you won't get that again and your odds of something else increase?
    Not really. Look at it this way:
    Cover Packs have a 2% chance of drawing Beast. Which means it's really a ~.65-ish chance of drawing Beast Green. Now, you could draw 300 covers and never ever see that Beast Green. You could draw 5 of them. Hard to say, random is random.

    With the Vault, you see that in that particular pack is a Beast Green. You know that right off the chances of drawing that Green is 1/300 (maybe more, could be another one sitting over in the random 3* area). If you draw 300 covers, you *will* get that Beast Green. Very likely in less than 300 covers really, but that's the absolute ceiling.

    And if you pull a new Vault and there are 2 Beast Yellows and a Beast Blue? You can reset the Vault for some Hero Points if you want. Which is currently set to the same amount as 5 pulls in the Cover Pack (1000 Hero Points). Which, sure, may have gotten you that cover you wanted in the Comic Pack but in all likelihood (statistically) would have drawn you 4x 2*s and something else.

    I look at it this way:

    If I want Beast Green, I have a 1/300 chance of drawing it at the beginning of the week. At the end of the week I have a 1/290 chance of drawing it.

    How is that exciting? 300 is way too many items for any kind of increase in odds to feel even the tiniest bit meaningful.

    If there were 50 items, it might be more exciting. 25 would seem right around the sweet spot. 15 might be a bit too far in the players' favor (but would also end up with a whole lot of additional small purchases as players buy out the last 5 slots to guarantee a 4*).

    Edit: Here's another scenario. Say that I want to draw any 4* at all. With 3 covers in there, I have a 3/300 = 1% chance of drawing one. Now, let's say that I use 150 TOKENS A COMPLETELY ABSURD AMOUNT OF TOKENS TO USE AT ONCE. If I don't draw any 4*'s, I will now have a 3/150 = 2% chance to draw a 4*. Again, how is this an exciting feature?

    1) You're confusing better odds with giving away the store.

    2) You seem to be evaluating the Vault in a vacuum. They continue to make changes to help players. This is one of MANY changes. Therefore, the Vault odds are only meant to be another improvement, the odds are not meant to solve all 3* and 4* cover needs of players. It's another improvement among many.

    Don't forget, dpdq will still have a daily cover. Shield sim rewards are improved. 4* pve rewards tiers are improved.

    3) lastly, it's a new feature. If it doesn't do what they want, they tend to be good at adjusting features (eventually).
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    Raffoon wrote:
    IceIX wrote:
    DrStrange-616 wrote:
    Well, poo. Doesn't that set-up sort of defeat the purpose of the Vault? The idea that you won't get dupes? That if you draw something, you won't get that again and your odds of something else increase?
    Not really. Look at it this way:
    Cover Packs have a 2% chance of drawing Beast. Which means it's really a ~.65-ish chance of drawing Beast Green. Now, you could draw 300 covers and never ever see that Beast Green. You could draw 5 of them. Hard to say, random is random.

    With the Vault, you see that in that particular pack is a Beast Green. You know that right off the chances of drawing that Green is 1/300 (maybe more, could be another one sitting over in the random 3* area). If you draw 300 covers, you *will* get that Beast Green. Very likely in less than 300 covers really, but that's the absolute ceiling.

    And if you pull a new Vault and there are 2 Beast Yellows and a Beast Blue? You can reset the Vault for some Hero Points if you want. Which is currently set to the same amount as 5 pulls in the Cover Pack (1000 Hero Points). Which, sure, may have gotten you that cover you wanted in the Comic Pack but in all likelihood (statistically) would have drawn you 4x 2*s and something else.

    I look at it this way:

    If I want Beast Green, I have a 1/300 chance of drawing it at the beginning of the week. At the end of the week I have a 1/290 chance of drawing it.

    How is that exciting? 300 is way too many items for any kind of increase in odds to feel even the tiniest bit meaningful.

    If there were 50 items, it might be more exciting. 25 would seem right around the sweet spot. 15 might be a bit too far in the players' favor (but would also end up with a whole lot of additional small purchases as players buy out the last 5 slots to guarantee a 4*).

    Edit: Here's another scenario. Say that I want to draw any 4* at all. With 3 covers in there, I have a 3/300 = 1% chance of drawing one. Now, let's say that I use 150 TOKENS A COMPLETELY ABSURD AMOUNT OF TOKENS TO USE AT ONCE. If I don't draw any 4*'s, I will now have a 3/150 = 2% chance to draw a 4*. Again, how is this an exciting feature?

    Because currently you have a ZERO percent chance.

    I'm excited that we have a chance to get 4*s now. Call me crazy!
  • Raffoon
    Raffoon Posts: 884
    DuckyV wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    IceIX wrote:
    DrStrange-616 wrote:
    Well, poo. Doesn't that set-up sort of defeat the purpose of the Vault? The idea that you won't get dupes? That if you draw something, you won't get that again and your odds of something else increase?
    Not really. Look at it this way:
    Cover Packs have a 2% chance of drawing Beast. Which means it's really a ~.65-ish chance of drawing Beast Green. Now, you could draw 300 covers and never ever see that Beast Green. You could draw 5 of them. Hard to say, random is random.

    With the Vault, you see that in that particular pack is a Beast Green. You know that right off the chances of drawing that Green is 1/300 (maybe more, could be another one sitting over in the random 3* area). If you draw 300 covers, you *will* get that Beast Green. Very likely in less than 300 covers really, but that's the absolute ceiling.

    And if you pull a new Vault and there are 2 Beast Yellows and a Beast Blue? You can reset the Vault for some Hero Points if you want. Which is currently set to the same amount as 5 pulls in the Cover Pack (1000 Hero Points). Which, sure, may have gotten you that cover you wanted in the Comic Pack but in all likelihood (statistically) would have drawn you 4x 2*s and something else.

    I look at it this way:

    If I want Beast Green, I have a 1/300 chance of drawing it at the beginning of the week. At the end of the week I have a 1/290 chance of drawing it.

    How is that exciting? 300 is way too many items for any kind of increase in odds to feel even the tiniest bit meaningful.

    If there were 50 items, it might be more exciting. 25 would seem right around the sweet spot. 15 might be a bit too far in the players' favor (but would also end up with a whole lot of additional small purchases as players buy out the last 5 slots to guarantee a 4*).

    Edit: Here's another scenario. Say that I want to draw any 4* at all. With 3 covers in there, I have a 3/300 = 1% chance of drawing one. Now, let's say that I use 150 TOKENS A COMPLETELY ABSURD AMOUNT OF TOKENS TO USE AT ONCE. If I don't draw any 4*'s, I will now have a 3/150 = 2% chance to draw a 4*. Again, how is this an exciting feature?

    Because currently you have a ZERO percent chance.

    I'm excited that we have a chance to get 4*s now. Call me crazy!

    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    Here have a brand new wonderful cookie. It has chocolate and will taste wonderful. The cookie is actually only half of a single chocolate chip, though. What a great new cookie feature!
  • TazFTW
    TazFTW Posts: 695 Critical Contributor
    Sherlock1 wrote:
    TazFTW wrote:
    shriekingwillow wrote:
    TazFTW wrote:
    Idea #2: A shared Vault for Alliances where Alliance members draw out of the same Vault.

    Now THAT is a good idea, potential 200 draws out of a 300 prize pool, at least someone in the alliance should pull some good prizes. Good prizes already gone? Save up for the next one in 5 days. Has a very Russian Roulette feel to it as far as when to jump in and spend your tokens.

    Aye. Using IceIX's vault sample, there could be anywhere between 3-12 Iron Fist covers when he's featured. I need Iron Fist, do I open ASAP to grab him before the others do or do I wait for the other members of my Alliance to "take out the trash" giving me a better shot.

    Alliances could do group openings, "With the first pull in the 2015 Vault Opening, TazFTW selects Moonstone Purple..."


    It can be a nice idea, BUT only if alliances got locked at the beginning of each event, preventing people from changing of alliances, because some "mercs" may "steal" good stuffs of their temp alliances...

    Ah yes, I was assuming locked alliances. Nuts.
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    Raffoon wrote:
    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    May I have your tokens please since you don't want it?

    Mpq is not going to move away from tokens entirely. We are going to be reliant on RNG to get the covers... You want certainty? Just aim for the progression rewards or placement rewards; those are certain if you can achieve it.

    As ComingStorm said it, they are not going to give away the store. And they shouldn't.

    If you want to get all the covers, I suggest you can get yourself sandboxed. You always get the latest characters, you can maxed them everytime and you don't even have to grind!
  • Raffoon
    Raffoon Posts: 884
    atomzed wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    May I have your tokens please since you don't want it?

    Mpq is not going to move away from tokens entirely. We are going to be reliant on RNG to get the covers... You want certainty? Just aim for the progression rewards or placement rewards; those are certain if you can achieve it.

    As ComingStorm said it, they are not going to give away the store. And they shouldn't.

    If you want to get all the covers, I suggest you can get yourself sandboxed. You always get the latest characters, you can maxed them everytime and you don't even have to grind!

    Do you disagree that it would be better if there were 25 or 50 items in the vault with roughly the same initial odds for each type of reward? Then pulling a token out of the vault would actually be meaningful.

    If the key feature of the vault is that pulling a token out increases your odds of pulling other things, then that increase should at least be meaningful.

    If there's a single cover that I want, my vault will go from a 0.33% chance to a 0.34% chance to pull that cover over the course of the week using the 2 daily tokens. They might as well not include the feature if that's all it's going to do.
  • stochasticism
    stochasticism Posts: 1,181 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2015
    imcoin.png
    Raffoon wrote:
    atomzed wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    May I have your tokens please since you don't want it?

    Mpq is not going to move away from tokens entirely. We are going to be reliant on RNG to get the covers... You want certainty? Just aim for the progression rewards or placement rewards; those are certain if you can achieve it.

    As ComingStorm said it, they are not going to give away the store. And they shouldn't.

    If you want to get all the covers, I suggest you can get yourself sandboxed. You always get the latest characters, you can maxed them everytime and you don't even have to grind!

    Do you disagree that it would be better if there were 25 or 50 items in the vault with roughly the same initial odds for each type of reward? Then pulling a token out of the vault would actually be meaningful.

    If the key feature of the vault is that pulling a token out increases your odds of pulling other things, then that increase should at least be meaningful.

    If there's a single cover that I want, my vault will go from a 0.33% chance to a 0.34% chance to pull that cover over the course of the week using the 2 daily tokens. They might as well not include the feature if that's all it's going to do.

    You're missing the other key feature that The Vault has going for it. You know what you can possibly get by opening a token. If you don't like the options save your tokens. Nobody is saying you have to spend them as soon as you get them. Wait until there is a reward you really want and open 20 or 30 at a time. You have much higher odds if getting what you want that way. This system will see people getting things they need much more often than any other token system if you just pay attention to what you are doing.
  • Raffoon
    Raffoon Posts: 884
    stochasticism wrote:
    :imcoin:
    Raffoon wrote:
    atomzed wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    May I have your tokens please since you don't want it?

    Mpq is not going to move away from tokens entirely. We are going to be reliant on RNG to get the covers... You want certainty? Just aim for the progression rewards or placement rewards; those are certain if you can achieve it.

    As ComingStorm said it, they are not going to give away the store. And they shouldn't.

    If you want to get all the covers, I suggest you can get yourself sandboxed. You always get the latest characters, you can maxed them everytime and you don't even have to grind!

    Do you disagree that it would be better if there were 25 or 50 items in the vault with roughly the same initial odds for each type of reward? Then pulling a token out of the vault would actually be meaningful.

    If the key feature of the vault is that pulling a token out increases your odds of pulling other things, then that increase should at least be meaningful.

    If there's a single cover that I want, my vault will go from a 0.33% chance to a 0.34% chance to pull that cover over the course of the week using the 2 daily tokens. They might as well not include the feature if that's all it's going to do.

    You're missing the other key feature that The Vault has going for it. You know what you can possibly get by opening a token. If you don't like the options save your tokens. Nobody is saying you have to spend then add soon as you get them. Wait until there is a reward you really want and open 20 or 30 at a time. You have much higher odds if getting what you want that way. This system will see people getting things they need much more often than any other token system if you just pay attention to what you are doing.

    How is that different than the current Deadpool tokens? The fact that you know what you might get is just as true for any other token that you open. That is not the unique new feature of the vault.

    If you save 150 tokens and open them all at once, you can increase your chances for a 4* from 3/300 (1%) to 3/150 (2%). That's absurd. 300 is not a reasonable number of items in the vault for this system.
  • Heartburn
    Heartburn Posts: 527
    i'm not too impressed by this system of the DDQ tokens at the moment ( maybe because i'm on a 30 taco token 2* dry spell) i have to agree with some of the posts this new WAREHOUSE seems too large and has such a short a turnaround to make any normal gains, leading to stock piling to emptying it in one shot. as it may currently run, it doesn't look that great unless they triple the amount of tokens against the assumed 10 tokens per turn around ( maybe add other ways to win tokens, like the idea to add vault tokens prizes to the vault or event dropping it as a random reward in nodes like 2 * covers in pvp).

    alliance rewards leading to alliance tokens for an alliance vault seems great if they are going to keep the vault at 300. better if they lower it that way we can try to help members get a cover they need by taking out the trash for them. maybe add an option to go for lower rewards only i don't need or want most rewards but my alliance mates do and i would like to help them without snatching up the reward from them.

    Disappointed that the vault is 300 slots should be like 30. icon_cry.gif agree MPQ is not being bold enough.
  • XandorXerxes
    XandorXerxes Posts: 340 Mover and Shaker
    Raffoon wrote:
    How is that different than the current Deadpool tokens? The fact that you know what you might get is just as true for any other token that you open. That is not the unique new feature of the vault.

    If you save 150 tokens and open them all at once, you can increase your chances for a 4* from 3/300 (1%) to 3/150 (2%). That's absurd. 300 is not a reasonable number of items in the vault for this system.

    Take it to a larger example. If you save 300 vault tokens, you have a 100% chance of getting a 4*, 3 of every featured 3*, HP, etc.
    If you save 300 Deadpool tokens, you have an 87% chance of getting a 2* on that 300th token (and no 4*s). You have a 40% chance of NOT getting the 1000 HP reward after 300 tokens.

    Yes, if you spend all of your tokens immediately you will only see marginally better results. If you want that shiny 4*, save your tokens. Same principle as life.

    Edit: Also, if you open 150 vault tokens at once you have an 87% chance of opening a 4* - and that's without taking into account the increased probability each time (99% chance of not getting a 4* ^ 150 = 22.145% chance of not getting a 4* after 150 tokens).

    Edit 2: Here's an online calculator for odds: http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/h ... etric.aspx

    Using 300 population size, 3 successes (three 4*s), 150 sample size, and 2 desired sample successes, according to the calculator you have a 50% shot of getting two or all three 4*s with 150 tokens. Not enough to let you cover all the 4*s in a few months by itself, but it's certainly faster than now.
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
    Raffoon wrote:
    atomzed wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    May I have your tokens please since you don't want it?

    Mpq is not going to move away from tokens entirely. We are going to be reliant on RNG to get the covers... You want certainty? Just aim for the progression rewards or placement rewards; those are certain if you can achieve it.

    As ComingStorm said it, they are not going to give away the store. And they shouldn't.

    If you want to get all the covers, I suggest you can get yourself sandboxed. You always get the latest characters, you can maxed them everytime and you don't even have to grind!

    Do you disagree that it would be better if there were 25 or 50 items in the vault with roughly the same initial odds for each type of reward? Then pulling a token out of the vault would actually be meaningful.

    If the key feature of the vault is that pulling a token out increases your odds of pulling other things, then that increase should at least be meaningful.

    If there's a single cover that I want, my vault will go from a 0.33% chance to a 0.34% chance to pull that cover over the course of the week using the 2 daily tokens. They might as well not include the feature if that's all it's going to do.

    Someone has already answered you.. you can save your tokens to get 100% chance of getting everything in the vault.

    If you don't realised it by now (and you probably don't), this is a big change in how the tokens can be used now. Token pulls are no longer determined purely by RNG now. You can hedge your chances by opening more tokens in a single week. This is analogous to me giving 100% guarantee of getting a 4* if you open 300 tokens at one go. In current terms, it is a huge improvement. I can open 300 tokens now and have no guarantee in a 4*.
  • Raffoon
    Raffoon Posts: 884
    XandorXerxes wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    How is that different than the current Deadpool tokens? The fact that you know what you might get is just as true for any other token that you open. That is not the unique new feature of the vault.

    If you save 150 tokens and open them all at once, you can increase your chances for a 4* from 3/300 (1%) to 3/150 (2%). That's absurd. 300 is not a reasonable number of items in the vault for this system.

    Take it to a larger example. If you save 300 vault tokens, you have a 100% chance of getting a 4*, 3 of every featured 3*, HP, etc.
    If you save 300 Deadpool tokens, you have an 87% chance of getting a 2* on that 300th token (and no 4*s). You have a 40% chance of NOT getting the 1000 HP reward after 300 tokens.

    Yes, if you spend all of your tokens immediately you will only see marginally better results. If you want that shiny 4*, save your tokens. Same principle as life.

    Edit: Also, if you open 150 vault tokens at once you have an 87% chance of opening a 4* - and that's without taking into account the increased probability each time (99% chance of not getting a 4* ^ 150 = 22.145% chance of not getting a 4* after 150 tokens).

    Edit 2: Here's an online calculator for odds: http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/h ... etric.aspx

    Using 300 population size, 3 successes (three 4*s), 150 sample size, and 2 desired sample successes, according to the calculator you have a 50% shot of getting two or all three 4*s with 150 tokens. Not enough to let you cover all the 4*s in a few months by itself, but it's certainly faster than now.

    Right, so if you save tokens for almost half a year, you'll be guaranteed the good stuff? Again, this is not exciting.

    Did you know that if you just invest some money for 30 years, you'll be able to buy all the tokens that you need to get every character? What's that, 30 years seems too long? So does half a year of giving up token pulls to guarantee 4*s.

    In your later edits you just explained the benefit of them adding 4* tokens to DDQ odds. That's a great change. It has nothing to do with the vault.
    atomzed wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    atomzed wrote:
    Raffoon wrote:
    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    May I have your tokens please since you don't want it?

    Mpq is not going to move away from tokens entirely. We are going to be reliant on RNG to get the covers... You want certainty? Just aim for the progression rewards or placement rewards; those are certain if you can achieve it.

    As ComingStorm said it, they are not going to give away the store. And they shouldn't.

    If you want to get all the covers, I suggest you can get yourself sandboxed. You always get the latest characters, you can maxed them everytime and you don't even have to grind!

    Do you disagree that it would be better if there were 25 or 50 items in the vault with roughly the same initial odds for each type of reward? Then pulling a token out of the vault would actually be meaningful.

    If the key feature of the vault is that pulling a token out increases your odds of pulling other things, then that increase should at least be meaningful.

    If there's a single cover that I want, my vault will go from a 0.33% chance to a 0.34% chance to pull that cover over the course of the week using the 2 daily tokens. They might as well not include the feature if that's all it's going to do.

    Someone has already answered you.. you can save your tokens to get 100% chance of getting everything in the vault.

    If you don't realised it by now (and you probably don't), this is a big change in how the tokens can be used now. Token pulls are no longer determined purely by RNG now. You can hedge your chances by opening more tokens in a single week. This is analogous to me giving 100% guarantee of getting a 4* if you open 300 tokens at one go. In current terms, it is a huge improvement. I can open 300 tokens now and have no guarantee in a 4*.

    Yes, I understand that. 300 tokens. 300 tokens.

    The system is great in principle. The implementation is so conservative that it might as well not be there, though.

    I've got this great new drug and it will lengthen your life. You'd like to try it, right? It will lengthen your life by exactly 1.5 seconds and you can only take it once. Oh no, don't be disappointed!
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    Oh come on you negative nancies.

    It's a first iteration, and a conservative one at that, but it will be tweaked, Ice already said as much.

    Some chance at 4*s is better than none, it's a step in the right direction.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,327 Chairperson of the Boards
    Raffoon wrote:
    It's great that they added a chance to get 4*s.

    It's not great that they're hyping up this new feature that increases your chances to pull the thing that you want as you pull more tokens, but then the actual increase as you pull tokens is tiny.

    Here have a brand new wonderful cookie. It has chocolate and will taste wonderful. The cookie is actually only half of a single chocolate chip, though. What a great new cookie feature!

    If you stockpile your tokens and cash them together the increase in chances of pulling something good is actually quite great as someone posted in the previous page (hoarding tokens for a month gives you almost a 50% chance of opening a 4*).

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