**** The Thing (Classic) ****

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  • notamutant
    notamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC4KYwF ... e=youtu.be

    Okay, finally got the video out. Sorry if I rambled on too much for this video, I didn't plan out what to say as much in advance as I normally do. I hope you all enjoy!
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    Did Ben take enough damage to drop his HP below Cap's?
  • morph3us
    morph3us Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
    Oh damn, I'm an idiot. Cap had more health than Ben, so that's why it didn't work. I need to read ability descriptions more carefully. Thanks for pointing that out.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thing bombing with my 1/2/2 (boosted to 186) is incredibly effective, especially with a boosted Patch. He's low enough where he doesn't tank any color so he just jumps out for the first hit after berserker and hides the rest of the match. Minimal damage taken on hard nodes.
  • morph3us
    morph3us Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
    Had a good playtest with Ben in the First Avenger, at 4/4/2, with him boosted to 270. Rock Solid is certainly worthy of the name. It saved me from a torrent of potentially game ending abilities numerous times, following adverse cascades. As dkffiv has pointed out, he pairs well with Patch's Berserker Rage, essentially nullifying those enemy strike tiles. If you're playing him for his yellow ability, you do need to babysit him a bit, due to the condition that Ben have higher health than his allies for it to kick in, particularly if you're using him over multiple matches. He inevitably ends up a lower health than his allies when he takes one for the team. You either end up rotating his higher health allies into the face of match damage for a while to meet that condition, or you end up needing to use health packs on Ben to reset it after a few matches.

    I was initially intending on speccing him at 5/5/3, since I wanted the big protect tiles, and the two turn stun. I also theorised that a diamond pattern was better for board shakeup than a square pattern. I'm now wondering if he lacks sufficient punch at 5/5/3, and am considering 4/4/5, which would retain the two turn stun, 1156 in protect tiles at 1448 damage (rather than 1805 at 1358 damage), but provide him with substantially more clout in the 5 green. Or maybe I still go for 5/5/3. I don't know!!!
  • morph3us
    morph3us Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
    After a fair amount more play, I've come around to the same conclusion as Phaserhawk, and notamutant. Thing's far more useful at 5/3/5, than at a 5 yellow build. The reduction in the damage threshold at 5 yellow covers isn't sufficient to make it proc any more reliably than at 3 covers. It tends to be very binary - either it doesn't proc, or it procs because you've just been smashed by a 5-8K single target hit. Hence, I think the yellow ability's main value (in PvP, at least) is as a spoiler on defence, and the actual protect tile value is less relevant as a consequence. I think Thing has insufficient clobbering power without 5 in red and 5 in green.

    I do think there's still value in 5 yellow, if you're intending on using him as an answer to overscaled nodes in PvE, since the 1800 value in protect tiles will matter an awful lot more there. That's a pretty niche use case, though, so I'm going 5/3/5.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    Many of the posts saying that he sucks provide detailed strategies that can trivialise him as a proof. Interestingly, many of those strategies are the same ones I use to take down level 350 IMHBs, but no one is saying that he sucks.
  • OzarkBoatswain
    OzarkBoatswain Posts: 693 Critical Contributor
    On the Idol of Millions icon, at low resolution, his head looks like he has a smile and no eyes or nose.

    kja1iHU.png
  • simonsez
    simonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pylgrim wrote:
    Many of the posts saying that he sucks provide detailed strategies that can trivialise him as a proof. Interestingly, many of those strategies are the same ones I use to take down level 350 IMHBs, but no one is saying that he sucks.
    Yes, we know that Patch/Loki can beat anything. The Thing just makes it twice as fast when you can use his marquee ability against him.

    And I don't know if I ever said it's proof that he sucks; it's just proof that I'd never leave him up in PvP, because you're begging every 3-4* transitioner to come seek you out.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    Pylgrim wrote:
    Many of the posts saying that he sucks provide detailed strategies that can trivialise him as a proof. Interestingly, many of those strategies are the same ones I use to take down level 350 IMHBs, but no one is saying that he sucks.
    Yes, we know that Patch/Loki can beat anything. The Thing just makes it twice as fast when you can use his marquee ability against him.

    And I don't know if I ever said it's proof that he sucks; it's just proof that I'd never leave him up in PvP, because you're begging every 3-4* transitioner to come seek you out.
    You don't even need to bring Loki along, a Trickery TU works just as well and doesn't weaken your attacking team
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Help regarding Thing/4pool PVP combo:

    Hello. I am fairly new to the game (playing almost 2 months now) and I am trying to hit 1000 on a consistent basis in PVP (and hopefully someday soon maybe 1300... wishful thinking?). Anyhow, I am very interested in using the Thing/4Pool combo that I have heard about, but I am not sure how to cover these two characters for maximum effectiveness for this combo.

    I have heard that for for the combo 4Pool is best as 355, but I can't get a good read on how Thing should be covered. Is 355 most effective for thing as well in this combo? Is 5 yellow overkill when you want 4Pool's black going off a lot? Does this cover combination make both 4Pool and Thing too weak in red?

    Currently my 4Pool is covered 213 and my Thing is covered 012. I looking to whale maybe 6 covers, but want to invest my HP wisely for this combo. Can anyone recommend to me which are the 6 most important covers I should add to Deadpool and/or Thing to get this combo effective enough to make it to 1000 in pvp? Will it hurt me badly not to have a red cover yet for Thing? Also, neither thing or Pool will be maxed level for a while yet... who should I have at a higher level for tanking purposes right now (or does it even matter)? Sorry for all of the questions, but I've been reading this board for a long time now and am still not quite sure what the consensus on this combo is and I have a lot of respect for the people who post on here. Thanks.
  • morph3us
    morph3us Posts: 859 Critical Contributor
    PROFESSOR reX wrote:
    I have heard that for for the combo 4Pool is best as 355, but I can't get a good read on how Thing should be covered. Is 355 most effective for thing as well in this combo? Is 5 yellow overkill when you want 4Pool's black going off a lot? Does this cover combination make both 4Pool and Thing too weak in red?

    Personally, I prefer Thing with 5 in red, particularly if you're going to run XDP at 3/5/5. If you run Thing with 3 red, and XDP with 3 red, you're not going to have a good outlet for the red AP you gather along the way. The two turn stun with 5 in red is actually useful, compared to a one turn stun, and the damage output is pretty reasonable at 5 red covers.

    I still maintain that 5 yellow covers is overkill. The only situation where the extra protect tiles come in use are for overscaled nodes in PvE, or if you're facing Carnage, where the extra protection can turn his Alien Instincts into self-damaging only. Plus, as you say, X-Enforcer is a lot less likely to proc if you have too many protect tiles out. The main point of Thing's yellow ability is that he jumps in front, not that he generates protect tiles. So, Thing should be 5/3/5 ultimately.
    PROFESSOR reX wrote:
    Currently my 4Pool is covered 213 and my Thing is covered 012. I looking to whale maybe 6 covers, but want to invest my HP wisely for this combo. Can anyone recommend to me which are the 6 most important covers I should add to Deadpool and/or Thing to get this combo effective enough to make it to 1000 in pvp? Will it hurt me badly not to have a red cover yet for Thing? Also, neither thing or Pool will be maxed level for a while yet... who should I have at a higher level for tanking purposes right now (or does it even matter)?

    This is pretty controversial still, in terms of optimal build.

    For Thing, I'd leave his yellow at 1 cover, it's not all that less effective than 3 covers. You need to get his green to 5 covers to combo off CDfW, or at least 4 covers, so you're looking at buying 2-3 covers in Yancy Street Special. It won't hurt you too badly not have any red covers for Thing yet, as Out of Bullets is a great ability to use instead.

    For XDP, we're all still debating as to whether 3/5/5, or 5/4/4 is a better build. I run XDP at 3/5/5, because I think X-Enforcer's main "deterrent" value (such that it is) lies in the absolute damage output, so 5 covers is a must. In terms of CDfW, you're unlikely to destroy all six of the tiles with 5 covers, with Yancy Street Special, but I think it improves the scatter distribution so you're more likely to hit at least some of them, then hopefully match more. 4 covers in CDfw is probably reasonable too. (If you're running XFW with XDP, then 5 covers in CDfW is a must).

    If you're limited to 6 covers to purchase, possibly the best split is to bring Thing up to 0/1/4 (buying 2 covers for Thing), and XDP up to 2/4/4 (buying 4 covers for XDP). That would put you in a position where you can decide whether to go 5/4/4 or 3/5/5 for XDP without wasting covers.

    A couple of final points. You're going to be level constrained by Thing in particular with that cover distribution, as Thing needs to have more health than XDP for the X-Enforcer/Rock Solid combo to work. From that perspective, the overall health of your team is going to be low, and may not be as effective as you'd like a higher levels in PvP in terms of deterring attacks. Secondly, this is not a fast team combination. IMHB/IF finish matches much faster than XDP/Thing. Part of XDP/Thing's viability comes from the fact that matches take a long time against them, which is going to be lessened in part by the lower health of your duo. Just some things to think about.
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    With his Yellow a progression reward, I am hopeful I can actually obtain it this time out, though now I'm dumping everything in Gamora to try and have a chance. This seems like a poor week for boosted characters though... but all that aside, let's say I get a Yellow for Ben, it seems the consensus is to max his damage dealing, which should be no problem.

    But who pairs well with him other than XFDP? It's Thing just not at all meta? Seems that way... and makes me a little sad.
  • Marc_Spector
    Marc_Spector Posts: 628 Critical Contributor
    jackstar0 wrote:
    But who pairs well with him other than XFDP? It's Thing just not at all meta? Seems that way... and makes me a little sad.

    In PVE, as I like using thematic teams, I've actually quite enjoyed using...

    ...wait for it...

    Thing, Mr. F, and Bag-man. Yes, Bag-man, who got a miniscule stealth-buff this year thanks to being included as part of the green-generation aspect of Mr. F's passive.

    Thing in centre position tanks his three colors +TUs, Mr. F grabs blue/black, Bag-man takes purple - and has such low health that if he's about to take a sniper rifle to the face (to the bag?) he can frequently get Thing to pop out front and fire off his protect passive. I use Snarky Remark to beneficially up the countdown on MrF's black, and if purple's ready to fire I'll try and create a crit or at least a green & red match for Thing. S'fun.

    Praise the bag. Love the bag.
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    Love it.

    I definitely plan to run him with Sue, Torch, Reed, and even Bag-Man... though that would mean putting iso in my fully covered Bag-Man... so not sure I can do that...
  • Marc_Spector
    Marc_Spector Posts: 628 Critical Contributor
    jackstar0 wrote:
    Love it.

    I definitely plan to run him with Sue, Torch, Reed, and even Bag-Man... though that would mean putting iso in my fully covered Bag-Man... so not sure I can do that...

    None of Bag-man's powers scale with level, so you can leave him underleveled for that grouping icon_e_biggrin.gif
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Finally got 5 covers in green and boy, that power is a dissapointment (like the whole character pretty much). The damage for the cost is fine, that's about it. The board shake is awful, the AI keeps aiming it in corners making it even less effective.

    Damage is nice and all, but i'd rather use Hulk or R&G's green for board shake and that's sad since they are 3*.

    Either fix his "aim" or let us choose where to punch with a small damage reduction. It's a really bad power at the moment, it just makes a hole and nothing else happens (80-90% of the time), I'm not sure if that's what intended or not... icon_lol.gif
  • Stormking3
    Stormking3 Posts: 38
    Is Thing worth obtaining for PvE nodes that are especially tough?
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Stormking3 wrote:
    Is Thing worth obtaining for PvE nodes that are especially tough?

    You're better off with icon_rocket.png
  • Stormking3
    Stormking3 Posts: 38
    sinnerjfl wrote:
    Stormking3 wrote:
    Is Thing worth obtaining for PvE nodes that are especially tough?

    You're better off with icon_rocket.png
    Cascade aside, how so? Thing is significantly better protecting your main attackers.

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