**** The Thing (Classic) ****

Ducky

Malcrof wrote:

Buret0 wrote:

ErikPeter wrote:

It could be Cable.

This guy is almost a counter to patch/loki, not extra vulnerable to it. Especially teamed with DP, he's hilarious.

Deadpool as a combo for him is hilarious, especially against Berserker Rage and Trickery.

You target Deadpool, [Thing] jumps in front. You target [Thing], Deadpool jumps in front. You can't hit either of them for big damage consistently because as long as one of them has more health than the other, you can't hit them hard.

I'd love to see those two boosted together. Throw Prof X behind them and have him hide until he's the last one left.

Wonder if IW can invis him, and if he will still jump in front..

Doesn't work with Colossus, so I'd doubt it will with this character.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

daibar wrote:

this guy doesn't look great on offense. On defense, his yellow will never go off unless the person attacking you is careless or a crit cascade happens

Best summary so far...

But that ignores the other aspect of the meta.

what do you did you do when you were a baby and you saw a 2* Storm? You prioritized beating her before she got her blue off.

What about when XForce had the OG Surgical Strike? You focused on killing him.

What do you do when fighting a Hood team? Most likely kill him first.

Loki? Kill him first.

This guy is the EXACT same idea, but unlike Loki or Hood or 2* Storm or OBW, he has damn near DD health, and unlike DD, you can't 'ignore him' and tear into the other person. You can kill everything around Hulk, and then kill him in a few hits depending on team build. With this guy, you can't do much beyond 'match' dmg before he shuts down dmg all together. He IS a tank, so HE absorbs the dmg, he - like Colossus - forces you to attack him, only with Colossus its a mechanic, with presumably Thing - its meta reasons.

Frankly speaking the only person who will get skipped more than this guy is Carnage. Imagine teaming this guy up with IF & IMHB. What are you going to do to beat it? You can try AP denial, but one unlucky cascade and you're going to get punched to death, all the while IF is kicking you in the face to death. Or someone could be a real tinykitty and pair him with Cage, all match dmg will be 1, only way to do real dmg is to hit HARD, and it will HAVE to be him you hit hard, that's a TON of hit points and defense to chew through with no overlapping attacks, clearing room for you to put pretty much anyone down, it could be an AP denial person, for a slow and painful death that no one will want to fight, or it can be a hard hitter like Steve Rogers, or you could have some real fun, and play Thing/Cage/Patch.

This guy isn't going to break the game or anything, but on defense I see him being a HUGE asset. I may not climb with him, but I'll set my defense with him and not worry too much about shields, especially if all people can throw against it is Loki/Patch.
- Unreall

Marty17

If it is The Thing, an ability better be called "It's Clobberin' Time!", still disappointed that doesn't have one called "Sweet Christmas!"

GrumpySmurf1002

Unreallystic wrote:

What are you going to do to beat it? You can try AP denial, but one unlucky cascade and you're going to get punched to death, all the while IF is kicking you in the face to death.

First, most 'unlucky cascades' and you're in trouble, except for really weak teams.

Now, just for fun with this exercise. Couple things.

Prof X/GSBW/Scarlett will still annihilate it. Alternatively, Boost 4red/3blue, bring 4Thor. 10 red, 9 blue. (match damage ***). Stun ***, Smite Fist. Fist is dead ideally in turn 5, realistically shortly within 7-8. Now you're in a 3v2 game with *** stunned and IMHB. Deny red (which you'll do anyway with 4Thor). Then you have a few options, depending on team composition.

I wouldn't want to hop against that team, but I also don't hop in shield sim, which is the only place you'll see it outside of Fist's PvP.

As I think about it.....where does AoE fit? Deadpool doesn't jump in on AoE, I'm assuming *** won't either. So that's another alternative for taking out support behind ***

Buret0

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Unreallystic wrote:

What are you going to do to beat it? You can try AP denial, but one unlucky cascade and you're going to get punched to death, all the while IF is kicking you in the face to death.

First, most 'unlucky cascades' and you're in trouble, except for really weak teams.

Now, just for fun with this exercise. Couple things.

Prof X/GSBW/Scarlett will still annihilate it. Alternatively, Boost 4red/3blue, bring 4Thor. 10 red, 9 blue. (match damage ***). Stun ***, Smite Fist. Fist is dead ideally in turn 5, realistically shortly within 7-8. Now you're in a 3v2 game with *** stunned and IMHB. Deny red (which you'll do anyway with 4Thor). Then you have a few options, depending on team composition.

I wouldn't want to hop against that team, but I also don't hop in shield sim, which is the only place you'll see it outside of Fist's PvP.

As I think about it.....where does AoE fit? Deadpool doesn't jump in on AoE, I'm assuming *** won't either. So that's another alternative for taking out support behind ***

Yeah... Cromulent Punch, Thor Voice Texts Storm, Here Have a Whale, Black Widow: Pink Mist, Reality Bites, Panther Gets Madder, Storm's Blue AoE, Strength of a Lawyer, Breaking Bad, The Fist of Rasputin, Blue Popping Passive, and Dense Vision all just got a lot better when fighting this 4*.

wymtime

simonsez wrote:

wymtime wrote:

Captain Marvel will be very helpful against this character.

Not as helpful as Loki. Seriously, anyone who tries using this thing will be shredded by any team with Fist/Loki. When a character's marquee ability is countered so well so easily, there's little to be enthusiastic about.

If most people are looking to go 5,3,5 you could also bring she hulk to take the tiles. She would be completely redundant as this characters red and green are much more powerful. I think Loki would better to attack him. And I would only bring IF depending on the buffed 3* in PVP. A Loki, Patch, IF for example would be awsome as you would fire BR then make the 3 tiles strike tiles to unleash hell with IF attack tiles. If the buffed 3* was a KK I would want her to use purple and would probably bring someone else to The fight over IF.

Loki Patch in general would be a great counter and would pair well with a lot of characters.

ErikPeter

simonsez wrote:

ErikPeter wrote:

This guy is almost a counter to patch/loki. Berserk Rage + "Dude jumps in Front" + Trickery = about 3k in strikes. So you need to attack him, which buys his opponents time because he has 10+k health left.

So he's dead in 3 more turns. And then everyone else is, 5 or 6 turns later. Hell of counter.

I'll grant you that. The Protects he creates make him weak to Trickery--Like every other Protect user. The threshold sounds a bit high, maybe.

However, there's a big difference between him and IW: This guy'll be happy to turn around and recoup those points against Patch/Loki/Whoever. On offense, Red or Green would make short work of Loki (or Patch), and letting your opponent Berserker Rage is stupid easy fuel for "Ally Shield" to trigger once or twice and completely shut down enemy damage.

I don't think anyone's arguing this guy's as good as Hulkbuster. But he's not going to be the worst 4*. And on the plus side, doesn't seem in danger of a reactive nerf.

I like Vision: Heavy as a counter. Pretty keen.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Unreallystic wrote:

What are you going to do to beat it? You can try AP denial, but one unlucky cascade and you're going to get punched to death, all the while IF is kicking you in the face to death.

First, most 'unlucky cascades' and you're in trouble, except for really weak teams.

Now, just for fun with this exercise. Couple things.

Prof X/GSBW/Scarlett will still annihilate it. Alternatively, Boost 4red/3blue, bring 4Thor. 10 red, 9 blue. (match damage ***). Stun ***, Smite Fist. Fist is dead ideally in turn 5, realistically shortly within 7-8. Now you're in a 3v2 game with *** stunned and IMHB. Deny red (which you'll do anyway with 4Thor). Then you have a few options, depending on team composition.

I wouldn't want to hop against that team, but I also don't hop in shield sim, which is the only place you'll see it outside of Fist's PvP.

As I think about it.....where does AoE fit? Deadpool doesn't jump in on AoE, I'm assuming *** won't either. So that's another alternative for taking out support behind ***

Sure he's beatable, and that team is beatable, especially when you factor in TU and boost, but it doesn't negate what he does. He FORCES the other team to play a certain way or burn certain resources. Having to use a boost to beat someone? The only time I use boost is when time is of the essence *like hopping*. Having to bring certain characters to the fight to win? I've already shrunken the field of people willing to fight me, meaning I'll have fewer -275 moments from being attacked.

when time gets critical in PvP, NO ONE is going to want to fight this guy.

And the whole AoE thing, no it won't proc his yellow, but those don't exactly put him down either. Almost 18k health survives pretty much everything, and while his attacks are pretty expensive, they are still respectable.

Another thought...PvE...fighting some of the 'stupidly' leveled goons should be more manageable.


I won't lie, as someone who doesn't like to shield, this guy is tied with IMHB in terms of interest. He won't knock IMHB out, but just thinking about what he does to the actual meta...he actually makes DD completely obsolete, his sole benefits were mass of HP and stalling (Dat dance!), but this guy looks to do it better.

Does KK do her heal after Deapool's black? I'm wondering if his passive will trigger her heal at all. doubt it, but wonder...
-Unreall

Malcrof

At 5 covers and max level, his yellow would save exactly 0 people from Speed Shot, a 2* skill. Think about that, need hood and loki gone.. get a match 5, they die (as long as the match 5 did not trigger the big guy), use the crit tile on the lowest damage possible if possible. speed shot is done as 1 tile at a time, not cumulative damage.

Punisher5784

Malcrof wrote:

At 5 covers and max level, his yellow would save exactly 0 people from Speed Shot, a 2* skill. Think about that, need hood and loki gone.. get a match 5, they die (as long as the match 5 did not trigger the big guy), use the crit tile on the lowest damage possible if possible. speed shot is done as 1 tile at a time, not cumulative damage.

Good point but I doubt players will start using 2* Hawkeye against the new 4* and team, but I get what you're saying. Regardless, every character has some sort of weakness or strategy to beat them but that doesn't mean they are easy, I definitely do not look forward to facing this character.

Malcrof

Punisher5784 wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

At 5 covers and max level, his yellow would save exactly 0 people from Speed Shot, a 2* skill. Think about that, need hood and loki gone.. get a match 5, they die (as long as the match 5 did not trigger the big guy), use the crit tile on the lowest damage possible if possible. speed shot is done as 1 tile at a time, not cumulative damage.

Good point but I doubt players will start using 2* Hawkeye against the new 4* and team, but I get what you're saying. Regardless, every character has some sort of weakness or strategy to beat them but that doesn't mean they are easy, I definitely do not look forward to facing this character.

Oddly, i do look forward to it. That is the only real way to build strategies. We can speculate all we want here before he/she/it is released, but until met in battle, we do not really know the best things.. for all we know, someone will come up with something no-one has even thought of yet!

Unknown

If this game was more complex, I'd be right there with you, but its not really like playing UMvC3 or USF4 of T7.

To prevent the tiles from coming out you can do a few things:
-Stun him so he is inactive when the big damage comes...
-Not hit as hard to prevent the tiles from triggering...
-Hit him...

Option one is actually solid, you have (looking at top 25) Cage, Steve Rogers, 4hor, and Fury, as options. All bring something good to the table as well.

Option two is reckless. Someone mentioned 2* Hawkeye, yeah because someone with his health if of use at this point, and reserving big damage will only get you killed by his team. Also playing around with low dmg gives more time for a cascade - either way, large cascade from you will easily trigger his yellow, and going the other way can wipe out your team. Finally it also takes too damn long in a game where speed is one of the most important things.

Option three is the most reliable one, but as I mentioned before, you have to chew through almost 18k of health to do it...giving him time - no MATTER your roster or boost, to hit you with equally nasty stuff. It really is Colossus part deux, only he hits better, and his tanking is better. It's like Colossus crossed with Hulk really.

---

The next school of thought is to just deal with the tiles as they come...
Option 1 - Match them
Option 2 - Cancel them
Option 3 - Destroy them

Option one is simple, hit hard, then try to match the tiles away. Either pollute the board with the tiles of that color, board shake up (Magneto, Loki, Dock Occ) or find matches over the next 'X' number of turns. It's slow, but him getting protects out doesn't mean the game is over, it just extends it greatly in length.

Option two is the IW way of thinking. Bubble them. This also invokes the way of Loki - change them to your tiles. Loki, IW, She-Hulk, & Falcon (SLOW!).

Option three is strictly board shake-up, Storm, 3hor, Hood, Rogers, XF, Hulk, RnG, GSBW etc. Some of these would actually trigger it again (Hood, 3hor), but the idea is solid, clear the board and some of the tiles go away too.

That's really all there is to it outside of out damaging them (which won't work as they will keep coming out). Loki is the strongest against him, between board shake up, turning them to strike tiles, AND slowing down HIS ability to generate AP, its obvious who kills him. I feel like Rogers is a number 2 on the list, high damage, a stun, and can clear the tiles away himself *directly*. I feel like She-Hulk (AP denial, board shake-up, and stealing tiles) & XF (low dmg shake-up, true healing, and REALLY HARD hitting) are the next tier for fighting him.

I'm sure a combination wil lbe put together to chew through him at an OK pace, but it still won't be optimal and he'll be skipped almost as much as Carnage.
- Unreall

Buret0

Unreallystic wrote:

Option three is the most reliable one, but as I mentioned before, you have to chew through almost 18k of health to do it...giving him time - no MATTER your roster or boost, to hit you with equally nasty stuff. It really is Colossus part deux, only he hits better, and his tanking is better. It's like Colossus crossed with Hulk really.
...

So, this ignores the chat we had about team damage being useful.

Target him, but then use heavy AoE, which should not trigger his passive. You can use big strike tiles to do heavy damage to him and the whole team.

So the answer for option #3 is to bring in:

Slot #1) Strike tile producer.
Slot #2) Heavy AoE damager.
Slot #3) Battery/Support.

KK is nice because she feeds herself, leaving you an extra slot to do something else.
Hulkbuster is nice because he feeds himself, produces strike tiles and protect tiles, and can finish off [Thing].
Panther is nice because he does protect tiles (poorly), strike tiles, and AoE. Plus there are good options for feeding him Black.
Depending on who else you are bringing in, Blade might be a decent option for your main strike tile production, but only if you don't need the red.
I like Groot for that as well, depending on who you are using for AoE because his yellow can allow him to recover from any big hits from the other team.

Unknown

I didn't say team dmg wasn't useful - its the same as attacking him, but its also not going to be used to a volume that would bring him down. Even throwing big strikes out there - say you used Sentry, still would only 'hurt' the other team with the raised hitpoints. It owuld take stacked team attacks, which usually take a significant amount of resources. And remember, every move you have, so do THEY, someone isn't going to bring Thing + Bagman + Venom. If someone is using a near maxed or higher Thing, they are going to have him most likely paired with other top ten characters.

It would be logical that they would have a maxed Cage or Patch or CapA or Cyc or Blade, etc. Say you used Black Panther, one Black won't kill anyone unless boosted, by the time you get up a second one, there is a good chance you've been ram rodded yourself, or one of your characters put down. I'm not swaying you will and you won't, just that I'd be REAL iffy about basing 'beating him consistently and quickly' around AoE attacks. Strikes could get you in REAL trouble too if you aren't attacking him. Imagine the 'horror' of seeing his Black Panther at one black away and all your energy has been put into trying to AoE or strike tile them to death...
- Unreall

Buret0

Well, the reason that you are going to want to put [Thing] in your party is because you are trying to keep a squishy character alive.

AoEs with strike tiles will let you take down PX, Hood, Loki, etc. before they can do their thing.

You hit them with your regular attacks while building up your AP to get your strike tiles and nuke.

Unknown

*shrug* I actually wouldn't put him in to protect squishies. I'd put him in to make the game take too damn long for anyone to want to do it. I'm already thinking Thing/Cage/ with either CMags, XF, Blade, or Rogers.

Good Health, good dmg, annoying to fight against, Cage gets his yellow, thing can use red or green as they pop up depending on covers, and short of Blade, everyone else is pretty self-sufficient, and Blade will do the most dmg over time thanks to automatic strikes and attack tiles...and I'd have all the time in the world with Cage AND Thing...
- Unreall

Buret0

Unreallystic wrote:

*shrug* I actually wouldn't put him in to protect squishies. I'd put him in to make the game take too damn long for anyone to want to do it. I'm already thinking Thing/Cage/ with either CMags, XF, Blade, or Rogers.

Good Health, good dmg, annoying to fight against, Cage gets his yellow, thing can use red or green as they pop up depending on covers, and short of Blade, everyone else is pretty self-sufficient, and Blade will do the most dmg over time thanks to automatic strikes and attack tiles...and I'd have all the time in the world with Cage AND Thing...
- Unreall

Carnage, KK, Thing OR Carnage, PX, Thing OR Carnage, Deadpool, Thing OR Hood, Deadpool, Thing.

simonsez

Buret0 wrote:

Carnage, KK, Thing OR Carnage, PX, Thing OR Carnage, Deadpool, Thing OR Hood, Deadpool, Thing.

Trying to get Thing's protect tiles to trigger to counteract Carnage's black is a good idea, except their active attacks are the same damn colors, which almost makes it feel like they purposely designed him to deter us from doing that.

Buret0

simonsez wrote:

Buret0 wrote:

Carnage, KK, Thing OR Carnage, PX, Thing OR Carnage, Deadpool, Thing OR Hood, Deadpool, Thing.

Trying to get Thing's protect tiles to trigger to counteract Carnage's black is a good idea, except their active attacks are the same damn colors, which almost makes it feel like they purposely designed him to deter us from doing that.

Since I'm building X/5/X for the passive, I'm actually not as worried about the poor coverage. Carnage does better with both of his abilities anyway.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Buret0 wrote:

Carnage, KK, Thing OR Carnage, PX, Thing OR Carnage, Deadpool, Thing OR Hood, Deadpool, Thing.

Trying to get Thing's protect tiles to trigger to counteract Carnage's black is a good idea, except their active attacks are the same damn colors, which almost makes it feel like they purposely designed him to deter us from doing that.

Well if you are planning that, depending on where the numbers fall, you could keep one of them, slightly underleveled like some peopel do for Patch/Hulk.

I like the idea of Carnage/Thing with someone like XF...so that while fighting I won't ever use Carnage, and can do massive dmg in as few special moves as possible (and can wipe off screen with green if need be)...then on defense, they KNOW that Carnage would get to fire off his red, so defense would be TRUMP.

But I'll never get all the covers for it, so it's just a pipe dream heh.
- Unreall