**** Carnage (Cletus Kasady) ****

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Comments

  • Adrock1020
    Adrock1020 Posts: 44 Just Dropped In
    raisinbman wrote:
    MarvelDestiny wrote:
    BillyBobJoe wrote:
    Why all the negativity on Carnage? ....

    ....

    ....

    I know people want the "next big thing" with Carnage, but instead he's a niche character that has to be played a certain way. I for one give the devs credit on this character because you actually have think tactics with him, and he's not just a bulldozer for higher end play.
    I don't think anyone is criticizing the devs, we're all just having a Carnage pity-party while we lick our wounds from seeing him in action during PS. I definitely like the creativity and hope to see more characters just as interesting and tuned just as close to their comic counterparts as Carnage. But he will never have a home on my roster.

    NOTE: BillyBobJoe's post edited and highlighted for brevity.
    he's not an OP 4*, that basically means give d3 credit for not screwing it up

    Have they ever released an OP 4*? Maybe Lady Thor? X-force was garbage at first, then got buffed to OP and then nerfed to OK.....
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Adrock1020 wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    MarvelDestiny wrote:
    BillyBobJoe wrote:
    Why all the negativity on Carnage? ....

    ....

    ....

    I know people want the "next big thing" with Carnage, but instead he's a niche character that has to be played a certain way. I for one give the devs credit on this character because you actually have think tactics with him, and he's not just a bulldozer for higher end play.
    I don't think anyone is criticizing the devs, we're all just having a Carnage pity-party while we lick our wounds from seeing him in action during PS. I definitely like the creativity and hope to see more characters just as interesting and tuned just as close to their comic counterparts as Carnage. But he will never have a home on my roster.

    NOTE: BillyBobJoe's post edited and highlighted for brevity.
    he's not an OP 4*, that basically means give d3 credit for not screwing it up

    Have they ever released an OP 4*? Maybe Lady Thor? X-force was garbage at first, then got buffed to OP and then nerfed to OK.....

    I should have clarified, any character that D3 releases that's not immediate OP is good news(they still release **** heroes with frequency, but I'd much rather them release a stupid hero than a game-warping hero); ie: d3 didn't screw up
  • Moon Roach
    Moon Roach Posts: 2,863 Chairperson of the Boards
    A really serious whale would have both a 5/5/3 and a 5/3/5 Carnage.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    If there is a 1,000 points difference between attacker and defender, then yes it's a 75 point match. While taking on a max carnage looks suicidal at first blush, all it takes is a lucky board to down him ASAP. And that's assuming the AI plays carnage correctly (not a given).

    As the season rolls on, we'll see if carnage is indeed OP for defense or not.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,331 Chairperson of the Boards
    I faced a 200 Carnage with no red, just green and black, and prof. X. It's a nice combo because when they cast a power, Carnage passive triggers before prof's, so the latter enhances the attack tiles placed by the former.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Perhaps. I personally feel the team damage does that enough already, what with health packs. But then again, let us all take a moment and praise our Health Pack bearing savior, Cletus Kasady, for while he bringeth the damage, he also arrived with extra bandaids.

    My only gripe right now is there's no reason to run the 1 black, as the difference between tile strengths is so miniscule. If you're going to run Carnage reliably, you need something to counter the free damage he's allowing the opposing team to do.

    I -think- I want to try a Fist/Carnage/Moonstone combo at some point, with Moonstone's control shift maxed. Carnage and Fist should tank Moonstone's colors to spare her damage, Fist can be used to power up Black AP as much as possible, and keep popping Control Shift as appropriate.

    Right now my Moony is only one cover on CS though, and I only have one Fist cover period, so this isn't anything I can test.

    Im having -some- luck with Carnage/Groot as well. I find that he really helps speed up PVE matches, regardless, but it means you have much less room for error.
    I think the aggressively bloody nature of the black power serves to partly counter the very powerful red. If black was more controllable, it would be much easier to abuse the red.

    The more I think about this, the more it doesn't make sense. It's perfectly viable to build a red/green Carnage and never gain the black power, if you wanted to abuse the red ability. You wouldn't be able to level cap, but the Black Ability itself shouldn't count as a balance against the red one.

    IMO: Either give the user some control over the passive and when it triggers, or Adjust it's Attack Tile strength for the lower covers up slightly, equalling out at 3 covers to what is currently on the set, then continue to 5 covers for those that want to capitalize on it. Personally, I'd say 1: 50, 2: 52, 3: 55, 4: 58, 5: 70. Or leave the numbers as is (Or even lower them), but have Carnage spawn 2 attack tiles for his team, and one tile for the opponent. As is, the 1 black cover is a near complete handicap because with one bad match your power's turned to actively killing you instead, and it's hard to recover from it.
  • snlf25
    snlf25 Posts: 947 Critical Contributor
    simonsez wrote:
    But unless you just want to sit at 800 and not get hit, I bet it won't be much of a deterrent, especially now that we have 10 health packs. If anything, an opposing Carnage might help you win a hop battle even faster.


    Exactly my thought. Bring Invisible Woman, Prof X and Luke Cage or Blade and watch him kill himself.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Pylgrim wrote:
    I faced a 200 Carnage with no red, just green and black, and prof. X. It's a nice combo because when they cast a power, Carnage passive triggers before prof's, so the latter enhances the attack tiles placed by the former.

    They trigger off different things. Or you are thinking of PX's yellowflag.png which just literally adds more tiles. Invisible PX purpleflag.png to enhance is on matching, not on ability use, and therefore should neva eva trigger directly following Carnage blackflag.png . Until you make a PX match after using Invisibility anyway.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    While I agree the Black ability is what makes him so deadly to your own team, (more than the red ever would be) Carnage's role is a combat accelerator, from what I've seen. You speed up the pace of the game quite a bit, especially on goon nodes, at the cost of some (or a lot) of extra health. Part of it relies on skill, part of it luck, as you have to choose your matches a bit more carefully to maximimize the black damage output.

    Am I happy with the power? No, not really. At the same time, it was no secret this was how he'd work. The Black ability, IMO, needs some kind of tweak. But the character is still inarguably the most potent guy on my roster currently.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    PX eats his lunch. I took SW PX versus the only full carnage I saw and went invis as soon as I could. Denied red te entire match. He made me a lot of very big attack tiles.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    After beating carnage with both PX+whatever (get PX invis and deny red and he auto wins versus carnage) and Hulk bomb (So, so easy), I can safely say he's not what some people were afraid he was going to be.

    He's beatable. He's very, very beatable. He will hurt you, but he will also kill his entire team for you if you play right against him.
  • Dunamis101
    Dunamis101 Posts: 72 Match Maker
    Just a thought, but I wonder if daredevil may work well with him seeing as his purple changes enemy attack tiles to basic ones and does damage as well. It might make having 5 covers in purple more viable.

    At least in that sense his purple would always have a use with carnages passive. Instead of waiting for an opponent to drop attack tiles ect...

    PS: new to the forums, hey everybody!

    http://i.imgur.com/pRLxumL.gif
  • Wobby
    Wobby Posts: 286 Mover and Shaker
    ArkPrime wrote:
    After beating carnage with both PX+whatever (get PX invis and deny red and he auto wins versus carnage) and Hulk bomb (So, so easy), I can safely say he's not what some people were afraid he was going to be.

    He's beatable. He's very, very beatable. He will hurt you, but he will also kill his entire team for you if you play right against him.

    So without a playable Prof X and a level 120 Hulk... And no chance of getting Carnage anytime in the near future... I should invest in Prof, max Hulk, or ....?
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    MFU wrote:
    1. Hulk, cap marvel passive are not working wirh Carnage red.

    Neither works with self damage.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Wobby wrote:
    ArkPrime wrote:
    After beating carnage with both PX+whatever (get PX invis and deny red and he auto wins versus carnage) and Hulk bomb (So, so easy), I can safely say he's not what some people were afraid he was going to be.

    He's beatable. He's very, very beatable. He will hurt you, but he will also kill his entire team for you if you play right against him.

    So without a playable Prof X and a level 120 Hulk... And no chance of getting Carnage anytime in the near future... I should invest in Prof, max Hulk, or ....?

    You should 1) Take all the Red, 2) Maybe bring Moonstone TUs or She Hulk TUs to steal eattack.png , and finally 3) Kill everybody everywhere with all the red you took.

    So... like L.Cap or Deadpool or TGT or something. Patch/Loki might be ok if you flip Trickery right away, but won't take attack tiles.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    Wobby wrote:
    ArkPrime wrote:
    After beating carnage with both PX+whatever (get PX invis and deny red and he auto wins versus carnage) and Hulk bomb (So, so easy), I can safely say he's not what some people were afraid he was going to be.

    He's beatable. He's very, very beatable. He will hurt you, but he will also kill his entire team for you if you play right against him.

    So without a playable Prof X and a level 120 Hulk... And no chance of getting Carnage anytime in the near future... I should invest in Prof, max Hulk, or ....?
    I look at carnage like an IF with high health. Carnage Black is what will do the real damage as it fires 4 attack tiles each power. His red will hurt but the 5k damage will not do as much damage as other 4*. If you can stun him then you can take him out. I would call him a scary Hulk. Carnage you want to stun and take out first, while Hulk you stun and take out last. You will take damage, but he he is not broken like Sentry was.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Dunamis101 wrote:
    Just a thought, but I wonder if daredevil may work well with him seeing as his purple changes enemy attack tiles to basic ones and does damage as well. It might make having 5 covers in purple more viable.

    At least in that sense his purple would always have a use with carnages passive. Instead of waiting for an opponent to drop attack tiles ect...

    PS: new to the forums, hey everybody!

    http://i.imgur.com/pRLxumL.gif

    Daredevil, imho, would seem like a bad pairing. Not saying it wouldn't work, but I wouldn't run that particular character with Carnage. The thing about this pairing is that it would require a 5 purpleflag.png Daredevil build which will either **** redflag.png or **** blueflag.png. You'd hit 5 tiles for 10 AP but I think you could do a bit better than that. If I were to run a specific character to clear tiles, I'd probably run Bullseye (Classic). If you down anything with his 7 AP purpleflag.png, which you should have plenty of targets to pick from, you'd begin flooding the field with strike tiles which just makes sense. Also, Daredevil only does 2870 for 10 AP (needs 5 tiles) and Bullseye does 2936 for 7 AP and only needs 1 tile to activate.

    You can almost guarantee that there will be an attack tile on the field. Despite being low damage, they accelerate really fast when paired with strike tiles. I'd try to configure a team that takes this in mind with big tiles to increase how fast he's killing the opposing team than killing your own. Patch will probably be a bad idea though since he'd accelerate both.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    dider152 wrote:
    No matter how you try to justify it, you can't make a character that attacks his own teammates look like a good gameplay mechanic. Sentry was bad enough: Now we have to deal with him? I'll get him because he's a required character, I love his art, and like the article said, he can be used if you pair him with Patch and Daken, two true healers. But he's useless besides that. I see him not being used very much.
    Pair him with hulk and hes going to be scary.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Tried it out against Puero Rico's Carnage/HB team after he'd shielded up earlier in Web Slinger. Took FistBuster and even left Carnage for last because it wasn't even close to being close.

    I accelerated into some strike tiles early from both HB and Fist, and then Carnage's attack tiles were working out better for me than for the AI. Snatched up every red match available, so they never got a red skill off, and that green takes a lot of AP, so that never fired as well. Sure a bad cascade could have destroyed me, but that's the case against most high level teams.

    As everyone else has said, no matter what team you've got, if you're worth points, someone will hit you.

    In the high end game it's not so much about scary teams on defense once you're shield hopping, it's about dealing out damage as fast as possible to be exposed for the least amount of time. If Carnage can deal damage faster than anything else, people will eventually use him. Otherwise, he'll just be interesting to have around (all that self damage is probably great for keeping your PVE scaling in check).
  • TLCstormz
    TLCstormz Posts: 1,668
    edited June 2015
    Punisher5784 wrote:
    IceIX wrote:
    Updated OP with actual character information instead of stubs. Also, the damage on levels 4 and 5 of Carnage Rules have been reduced slightly from the initial preview. icon_carnage.png

    Curious to know why Carnage was chosen to be a 4* or in the game at all.

    EXACTLY what I have been saying for weeks, now!!!!!!

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