Changes To Scoring In Versus Events

Der_Lex

1k has become easier to reach, but placement has become a lot more difficult. In my current Carnage bracket, 1k doesn't even get you top 25 and top 10 is all 1175 and up, with the number one at 1500+. And this, in my experience at least, is pretty typical of pvp scores after the scoring change. If you don't invest heavily in shields and/or are part of a major alliance family, top 50 and maybe top 25 is as good as it gets. That's a big shift from before.

TxMoose

Der_Lex wrote:

1k has become easier to reach, but placement has become a lot more difficult. In my current Carnage bracket, 1k doesn't even get you top 25 and top 10 is all 1175 and up, with the number one at 1500+. And this, in my experience at least, is pretty typical of pvp scores after the scoring change. If you don't invest heavily in shields and/or are part of a major alliance family, top 50 and maybe top 25 is as good as it gets. That's a big shift from before.

can't really use carnage event as evidence since it should be considered an outlier in performance analysis. everyone played this one to 1000, so 1000 was never going to get close to t25 here. I do agree that it feels harder, but I think there are big swings in brackets too. ~830 got me t25 for 2 blade covers not long ago too, but it wasn't easy. it feels like its harder but part of that is I'm playing with more leveled characters (I've recently leveled many to higher tiers), have higher goals, and am taking on higher teams and (selectively) employing shielding strategies to get there.

lockness

MyFeetStink wrote:

So tonight I was at 951, with 6 hours left to go in the PVP. I go ahead and break shield as I queued up a 62 point fight and figured a quick hop and re-shield, and yippie I have progression done.

I do the fight, win and get the points as expected, but then see I get put to 981. Turned out while I did that fight I got hit once. Well, I had a 32 point fight queued, so I do that one really fast, win, and then I see this:

Hi, looking at the image, I'm just curious..... How is it possible to lose 53 points to a player with 802 total points and lose 50 points from a player at 481 points in the progression? That doesn't make sense to me.

MyFeetStink

lockness wrote:

Hi, looking at the image, I'm just curious..... How is it possible to lose 53 points to a player with 802 total points and lose 50 points from a player at 481 points in the progression? That doesn't make sense to me.

When I started the fight, I was just like 10ish points away from hitting 1k. I won, then did not hit the progression due to this. My guess is all of these attacks came in about the same time, and they were all based on my score at that time.

It would have been much better for me if the system applied your earned points to the score when you started the fight, provided any rewards due, then subtracted the losses to the new score that was earned afterward. That way I would have still hit the progression and not felt so cheated out. Sure my ranking would have sucked, but at least it would not have been a total loss.

FWIW, the level of effort I am putting into PVP post this is WAY down. I am not angry at all, and I don't really want anything to "make it right", but before this I was spending HP on shields like it was my job and really cranking on the season score. Really, I was the ideal customer for them this season with the money I was putting in, and it was only increasing. This took the wind out of my sails and I am still just done. Perhaps I will regain my enthusiasm for the game, but not today. Its a fine balance of the carrot and stick that a company like D3 has to do in order to make money from us, but in this case the stick was far too much and they are losing my money due to it.

So, perhaps in the long run, this is good that it happened.

rawfsu

I agree with MyFeetStink, this mechanic in PVP is VERY frustrating! It has made this new scoring system an extra pain in the heel on top of the hits you take when attacked. I don't think it makes sense for me to actively playing in match, win the match, but then somehow lose points. How can my team be in two places at once? I understand if I stop playing for several hours, come back to PVP, and have been unloaded on. It doesn't make sense to be playing straight through, scoring points, and secretly losing them at the same time. In my time with PVP, I've had to get used to not being able to compete, competing for less than top 100, getting consistent in being top 100, growing my roster to finish top 25 regularly, but now, I have to deal with no more top 100 AND losing 100s of points for not spending money on shields. I relegated myself to gaining the 4k for the 10-pack, but if this point total changes, PVP may become a thing of the past.

Ebolamonkey84

rawfsu wrote:

I agree with MyFeetStink, this mechanic in PVP is VERY frustrating! It has made this new scoring system an extra pain in the heel on top of the hits you take when attacked. I don't think it makes sense for me to actively playing in match, win the match, but then somehow lose points. How can my team be in two places at once? I understand if I stop playing for several hours, come back to PVP, and have been unloaded on. It doesn't make sense to be playing straight through, scoring points, and secretly losing them at the same time. In my time with PVP, I've had to get used to not being able to compete, competing for less than top 100, getting consistent in being top 100, growing my roster to finish top 25 regularly, but now, I have to deal with no more top 100 AND losing 100s of points for not spending money on shields. I relegated myself to gaining the 4k for the 10-pack, but if this point total changes, PVP may become a thing of the past.

This mechanic is how it has always been. It is just magnified by the amount of points that can be lost now. It also doesn't help that more people are able to cross the threshold where they become available targets for everyone, so they are experiencing more hits than they are used to. You do not really need to spend real money for shields. You have to weigh the cost of shields vs the cost of the covers you are going for, and make back any HP losses through PVE.

xdogg

I really like the fact that I can reach 1k pretty easily now, I'm not much for shield hopping so once I reach 1k I'm usually done, I'll take the 4* reward, shield up and take what ever rewards I get after that, I'm not real crazy about getting +1 for a defensive win though knowing if I wasn't shielded and lost it probably would have been for 60 or 70 points

evil panda

I guess I'm kind of shocked at how many people are having a worse time. I have a mixed set of alliances with 40 people that range from maxed 4* rosters to 2* transitioners, and it's been easier for everyone on the whole. It takes less matches to climb, retaliations get you to break even much faster, and everyone is climbing faster and scoring higher overall. Of course, I/we get hit for 200+ fairly often and it really sucks, but if we use final overall score and shields spent as the benchmarks, this has been a resounding success for us

MyFeetStink

Just to be clear, I am not advocating changes really. I am not a game designer and don't really know the details of these things. That only real suggestion I would have is it would be nice for wins to be added to the pre-fight score, progression rewards applied, then any losses during a fight applied. The end score would be the same, but it would allow us to get progression rewards we "win" when we get out of a fight. IMHO that would reduce frustration a lot.

I do think the score changes are overall positive, as they finally create a situation for a 4* transition (a slow one, but its still there). People with deep rosters should be able to get 1k without too much problem. I would say I am mid-level 3* transition and it was a bit premature for me to be pushing to hit 1k every time even when I don't have the feature or weekly boosted leveled the way I should. I think if the scoring situation remains the same, then in 1 or 2 more seasons I will have enough 3*s upgraded to be in a place where I should be able to hit 1k with far more ease and a lot less HP.

TxMoose

and instead of pinging the real time score from the server at the end of the match, do it at the beginning and tell us what the accurate number is as we enter the match. they have to grab the real number at some point anyway, why not the beginning? no additional server load that I can see.

hex706f726368

xdogg wrote:

I really like the fact that I can reach 1k pretty easily now, I'm not much for shield hopping so once I reach 1k I'm usually done, I'll take the 4* reward, shield up and take what ever rewards I get after that, I'm not real crazy about getting +1 for a defensive win though knowing if I wasn't shielded and lost it probably would have been for 60 or 70 points

Consider yourself fortunate.

Wintersmith

All in all, I like the slight chance of getting to 800 points as it has been impossible before. My only grievance is that while I play at the end of an event, I lose points faster than I can hope to gain. That is frustrating. I don't mind losing points during the event, that is only to be expected and can be avoided by shielding. Yes, I should shield and quit playing 8 or 3 ours before the end. But why is it so?

Unknown

Wintersmith wrote:

All in all, I like the slight chance of getting to 800 points as it has been impossible before. My only grievance is that while I play at the end of an event, I lose points faster than I can hope to gain. That is frustrating. I don't mind losing points during the event, that is only to be expected and can be avoided by shielding. Yes, I should shield and quit playing 8 or 3 ours before the end. But why is it so?

A bit funny reading that last sentence and seeing, "So I should spend money for something and then intentionally NOT play the game for 8 or 3 hours..."

I guess if I think of your question in those terms, it becomes a bit rhetorical, yeah?

DBC

Unknown

So after having more time with the current system, I think it is shaking out the way PvP was before, but with better access to progression rewards, and more volatility for final placement below the top 25 than before. With point jumps and drops being so large its really easy to jump and drop - whole tiers, but it feels like the the real shift is

Level of effort for progression rewards is less...
Level of effort for placement rewards is higher...

So the casual fan, or the person who can't "live" around the game if you will - can get better rewards, but the more hardcore have to really scrap it out.

With the point volatility - while I'm fine with the shield cooldown, I feel like there is another shield we need. Like there has to be someway to make a push within the last 3 hours without losing 300+ points.
- Unreall

firethorne

MyFeetStink wrote:

So tonight I was at 951, with 6 hours left to go in the PVP. I go ahead and break shield as I queued up a 62 point fight and figured a quick hop and re-shield, and yippie I have progression done.

I do the fight, win and get the points as expected, but then see I get put to 981. Turned out while I did that fight I got hit once. Well, I had a 32 point fight queued, so I do that one really fast, win, and then I see this:



Well that sucked. I won pretty quick, and I was using a maxed cage and IF with 164 (boosted) spidey.

There goes my progression for this one as there is no way, but I figure what the hell I have all health packs so I will go for climbing a touch. Do two more fights, win them all, but after each one I see I get hit for two more losses in that time. So screw it, done on this one.

I love the point changes, but this one hurt. No idea what happened. I dunno if I made someone mad or what, but damn that was rough.

Ouch. At least it was just kingpin.

I need to pick better slots....

Wow, I know the feeling. I never get to 1000, and that is a perfect example of why.

I'd love to see an event with point loss from attacks turned off. Or, something like an option to concede placement awards to turn off attacks. Id be happy with only the progression.

rawfsu

I posted earlier in this thread about the point loss, but have noticed a trend I hope doesn't backfire going into Category-5. I REALLY need those Steve Rogers covers! Anyways, since Season XVI is the first to introduce two 4* characters for point progression, my point totals have gone down, but my placements have been back to the way they used to be. I've checked the leaderboards this season to see players finishing below 1k, where as in Season XV, 1k was the benchmark for placement in top 100. I've had top 25 finishes once again the past two PVP events thanks to this trend. We'll see how the rest of the season pans out, but I kind of hope it stays the way it is. I think as the rewards have increased, the competition at the top has gotten stiff, with the loss of points keeping players below 1k.

Malcrof

firethorne wrote:

I'd love to see an event with point loss from attacks turned off. Or, something like an option to concede placement awards to turn off attacks. Id be happy with only the progression.

^ this, 1000000 times ^this

Storm PVP, no need for rewards, but would love progression.. same with the previous Gamora PVP

this option would change everything so much for the better.

Those who need the rewards, play each other for them, may the best person win.

those of us who do not.. play it like a PVE using other players teams as the nodes.

All problems solved.

except it would skew season standings some..

TxMoose

Malcrof wrote:

firethorne wrote:

I'd love to see an event with point loss from attacks turned off. Or, something like an option to concede placement awards to turn off attacks. Id be happy with only the progression.

^ this, 1000000 times ^this

Storm PVP, no need for rewards, but would love progression.. same with the previous Gamora PVP

this option would change everything so much for the better.

Those who need the rewards, play each other for them, may the best person win.

those of us who do not.. play it like a PVE using other players teams as the nodes.

All problems solved.

except it would skew season standings some..

that would need to cut our points that counted towards the season in half or so. with no risk of losing points, it would really turn into how many 30, 20, and eventually 5-10 point matches we churn out, which frankly isn't that hard to do. pretty sure I could approach 2000 without having to test myself against any fistbuster team or other maxed ****. that being said, I'd opt for this in a heartbeat, even if only half the pts counted towards season. if progression teams were visible to the reg players, that would be a ton of extra points out there on top of the current system - not sure they would want that.

Malcrof

TxMoose wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

firethorne wrote:

I'd love to see an event with point loss from attacks turned off. Or, something like an option to concede placement awards to turn off attacks. Id be happy with only the progression.

^ this, 1000000 times ^this

Storm PVP, no need for rewards, but would love progression.. same with the previous Gamora PVP

this option would change everything so much for the better.

Those who need the rewards, play each other for them, may the best person win.

those of us who do not.. play it like a PVE using other players teams as the nodes.

All problems solved.

except it would skew season standings some..

that would need to cut our points that counted towards the season in half or so. with no risk of losing points, it would really turn into how many 30, 20, and eventually 5-10 point matches we churn out, which frankly isn't that hard to do. pretty sure I could approach 2000 without having to test myself against any fistbuster team or other maxed ****. that being said, I'd opt for this in a heartbeat, even if only half the pts counted towards season. if progression teams were visible to the reg players, that would be a ton of extra points out there on top of the current system - not sure they would want that.

Would be separate brackets/events from those going for placement rewards.

Wintersmith

Are the point thresholds set at certain place, like 500, 650, 700 points etc. like the rewards or do they depend on your rank or are they flexible? And do pvp brackets somehow take note from previous pvp success and match you with people with similar results? Or is is just random?