Phaserhawk wrote: So I have really been wanting to take this guy to 5/3/5 as it allows me to pair him with other 4*'s, like X-Force, King Pin, and PX but after running the numbers, I just can't justify doing it
simonsez wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: So I have really been wanting to take this guy to 5/3/5 as it allows me to pair him with other 4*'s, like X-Force, King Pin, and PX but after running the numbers, I just can't justify doing it If you're using him with KP, you're almost always going to want to use black AP for KP, no?
Phaserhawk wrote: Because I'm thinking very soon that any 3* not buffed in PvP is a liability, so I see myself pairing HB/exclusively with KP currently, hence my reasoning to go 5:3/5
Phaserhawk wrote: So I have really been wanting to take this guy to 5/3/5 as it allows me to pair him with other 4*'s, like X-Force, King Pin, and PX but after running the numbers, I just can't justify doing it, even though if you run him with those guys, it makes more sense to go 5/3/5 it's just the loss of 2 tiles being overwritten is a total loss of about 1 red AP and maybe 1-2 other colored AP from a cascade, vs. getting 3 more AP and massive strike tiles at 3-5 in black. Can anyone come up with a statistically better reason to go 5/3/5 over 5/5/3. Take strike tiles and def tiles out of it. Does 11 black AP into 9 Red AP a better option over creating 7 green into red for a cascade. I'm sure blue has a better payoff if it goes off? Thoughts, comments?
simonsez wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: Because I'm thinking very soon that any 3* not buffed in PvP is a liability, so I see myself pairing HB/exclusively with KP currently, hence my reasoning to go 5:3/5 If that's the plan, I would agree with that. On the other hand, after getting beat down in Psy PvP from 1103 to 767 with carnage/antman up, I'm not sure "PvP liability" is even a thing anymore. Would I have been any lower if I'd just left up HB and unbuffed Fist? Thinking not...
GrumpySmurf1002 wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: So I have really been wanting to take this guy to 5/3/5 as it allows me to pair him with other 4*'s, like X-Force, King Pin, and PX but after running the numbers, I just can't justify doing it, even though if you run him with those guys, it makes more sense to go 5/3/5 it's just the loss of 2 tiles being overwritten is a total loss of about 1 red AP and maybe 1-2 other colored AP from a cascade, vs. getting 3 more AP and massive strike tiles at 3-5 in black. Can anyone come up with a statistically better reason to go 5/3/5 over 5/5/3. Take strike tiles and def tiles out of it. Does 11 black AP into 9 Red AP a better option over creating 7 green into red for a cascade. I'm sure blue has a better payoff if it goes off? Thoughts, comments? Not statistically so no. Even if you used his black strictly as part of a finishing move, you're giving up 2232 damage. To the bigger point, there's a couple alliance mates running Carnage-HB right now, and using HB as the red feeder for Carnage. I'd never suggest running 3/5/5 just because that's how they're using him. My philosophy: If a combo doesn't work, don't change a strong character to try to make the combo work, find a different combo. If IMHB at 5/5/3 doesn't work great with KP because of the black overlap, then swap one of them out, but don't change their builds.
Phaserhawk wrote: I agree with that logic, the thing is HB/KP work very well together, my wondering, is, is it worth it to try to make them work even better together? In addition the combo of HB if you go black into red is 6370 assuming no red plus the strike tiles but it costs you 20AP and 1538 life. KP Assuming you had to go yellow into black is only 5268 for 16, but if you add a second black, for 22 AP you do 10536 that's 478 per AP vs. 318.
Polares wrote: Phaserhawk wrote: I agree with that logic, the thing is HB/KP work very well together, my wondering, is, is it worth it to try to make them work even better together? In addition the combo of HB if you go black into red is 6370 assuming no red plus the strike tiles but it costs you 20AP and 1538 life. KP Assuming you had to go yellow into black is only 5268 for 16, but if you add a second black, for 22 AP you do 10536 that's 478 per AP vs. 318. ???????? I think you made a mistake there. This is just for 11AP, the 9 red are free, you dont need to collect them so the ratio for IMHB is 579 (you cant add them like that to the cost when they are free), and 2 strikes on the board. And you dont need to wait for anything, you get 11 black, you fire both abilitites. For 22 black AP IMHB does 13000+ damage, so the ratio is even better (around 590), and you have 4 deadly strike tiles in the board.
sinnerjfl wrote: What are everyone's thoughts on raising the cost of his red to 10 or 11 AP? Not changing the damage, only the cost of the ability. That would slow him down a little (which is the point because he is insanely fast at dealing damage), and one cast of his wouldn't guarantee a punch in the face right away if he was at 0 Facing him is just really annoying because it's guaranteed the AI will get 9 red, its not exactly hard even for the shackled AI. IMHB is everywhere in PVP, there's a reason for it. He is just slightly too good. If anything, it wouldnt change much for players because as long as you have a few reds, you'll always be able to Overdrive + Punch. When facing him, it would give you a chance to avoid the damage or slow it down a little.
notamutant wrote: Actually, I often avoid him getting off a red when I play against him using my own HB/JG team. He maybe gets it off 1/3 of the matches. And when you have your own HB, tanking one punch isn't the end of the world. And you can get rid of the strike tiles created with a JG purple next turn.
sinnerjfl wrote: notamutant wrote: Actually, I often avoid him getting off a red when I play against him using my own HB/JG team. He maybe gets it off 1/3 of the matches. And when you have your own HB, tanking one punch isn't the end of the world. And you can get rid of the strike tiles created with a JG purple next turn. That's great and all but don't you see that it's becoming a problem, HB & JG are the solution to pretty much any team out there. It's pretty much the 2 characters you see constantly because they are too good. HB doesnt need a nerf but maybe some tweaks. Also, not everyone has max HB & JG nor should it be the goal of the game to max those 2 characters to be remotely competitive. We had this before and the problematic characters were nerfed (X-Force Wolv, Thoress) and the game was better off. Might be the time to do the same to HB/JG. I know it's not a popular opinion but when all you see in PVP are those two, there might be a problem here.
PorkBelly wrote: First, the X-Force & Thoress nerf didn't make PvP better (or at best, that is a highly debatable assertion). Second, the reason you see lots of JeanBusters out there is because they are relatively old top tier 4*s. There are other 4*s that are just as good as those two. I'd skip a Thing/4pool or an Iceman/4clops or a RedHulk team before I skip JeanBuster. You just have to wait for people to level those characters, which, given the dearth of ISO-8, might take a while. Nerfing is never a good idea, in my opinion. It's an extremely lazy way to deal with character balance. It also creates ill will amongst the player base who took the time to develop those characters. Far better to develop interesting characters who work as counters to existing characters (which seemed to be the point of Iceman in regards to Hulkbuster).