**** Iron Man (Hulkbuster) ****

sinnerjfl

simonsez wrote:

Are you using Hood or Loki? Otherwise, this is a little hard to figure. The AI doesn't hoard AP, and a 9AP repulsor punch does 5k and change... ie way less damage per AP than Carnage's red. Does that mean Carnage is super-duper obscenely OP?

How much damage per AP should HB be doing? Less than characters like Cyclops, Deadpool and Khan? Because as it is, he's not any better.

I find HB problematic because he has too many upsides, he literally does everything.
Obscene amount of HP
AP generation (that goes straight to his team's AP which is a really big advantage) + big strike tiles for a bit of self-harm
More AP generation just in case you run out of red
Big damage ability that is hard to avoid since denying 9 red throughout a game is now impossible.

I don't think he's broken but he needs tweaks. For the damage output on his red and how easy it is for him to generate said red, yes it is too high per AP.

You can't compare him to Cyclops who has like half his health, must gather the red he produces and no strike tiles. DP's red is good but you get dimishing returns with each use. Khan's green generation is far from fail-proof as well and can backfire.

Polares

After using him for while I don't think he is really OP, he is very good, but nothing compared to the old Xforce or 4hor.

But If people keep complaining about him and he is nerfed, I really hope they just tweak Overdrive a little. If he would generate 7 red instead of 9 that would make him more in level with other 4s. But don't touch his red! Maybe they could lower a little bit their strike tiles and on the other hand raise A LOT the value of his shields.

And now that we have Ant-man and Carnage I really dont see even the necessity of a tweak as people keep saying (these two and ProfX are in level with him). Maybe what we need is a small tweak for Kingpin and Starlord so they get more inline with the other 4s (Elektra is a lost case)

Best 4: IMHB, ProfX, Ant-man
Slightly worse: Carnage, The Thing (basically because they are not for every situation)
Very good: XWolvie (green needs to be tweaked just a little bit), Fury
Good: 4hor (she really needs to generate 7 power tiles)
Not good, not bad: Kingpin, Star lord
Meh: IW
Really bad:Elektra

over_clocked

Excuse me, what?? Elektra and Carnage are both specialized and both shine in their niches. Elektra and IW are both PvE stars.
To call Goddess worse than Fury, XF, Thing and Carnage is just beyond imagination. Yeah she's been nerfed hard; she's still the most powerful 4* (not the fastest or the scariest for PvP, admittedly), easily running circles around Hulkbuster, XF, Thing, Fury or Carnage, only PX even comes close when you need damage out of thin air without hurting your own team.

Unknown

over_clocked wrote:

Excuse me, what?? Elektra and Carnage are both specialized and both shine in their niches. Elektra and IW are both PvE stars.
To call Goddess worse than Fury, XF, Thing and Carnage is just beyond imagination. Yeah she's been nerfed hard; she's still the most powerful 4* (not the fastest or the scariest for PvP, admittedly), easily running circles around Hulkbuster, XF, Thing, Fury or Carnage, only PX even comes close when you need damage out of thin air without hurting your own team.

goddess more powerful than hulkbuster?

new meta?

simonsez

over_clocked wrote:

she's still the most powerful 4* (not the fastest or the scariest for PvP, admittedly), easily running circles around Hulkbuster, XF, Thing, Fury or Carnage, only PX even comes close when you need damage out of thin air without hurting your own team.

You say that as if leaving charged tiles on the board doesn't hurt your own team.

over_clocked

Well if I keep the enemy team stunned, no, it doesn't I admit that HB is better than Goddess for fast speed PvP; but she's much more sustainable for climbing or for PvE grinding especially when HB is built 5/5/3, and her power potential is nigh unlimited.
You try doing 60k damage with unboosted HB and see how much health he has after that, and then do the same with unboosted Goddess.

atomzed

over_clocked wrote:

Well if I keep the enemy team stunned, no, it doesn't I admit that HB is better than Goddess for fast speed PvP; but she's much more sustainable for climbing or for PvE grinding especially when HB is built 5/5/3, and her power potential is nigh unlimited.
You try doing 60k damage with unboosted HB and see how much health he has after that, and then do the same with unboosted Goddess.

I echo locked comments about GT. A key GT strength that I like is her Power Surge. 3 turn stun is nothing to scoff at, and is especially helpful for high level pve.

I especially like GT with SW, because with Reality crush, you have 2 stun ability that can cripple the opp team. For example, you cast reality crush and stun one opp member. Then you power surge the other member. And use smite to kill the third. You will then have 3 free turns, and also one additional arcane conversion.

Granted, fistbuster is probably the fastest pvp team now... But in pve and sustained push in sims or pvp, GT really shines. I really think that she's arguably as strong as IMHB, albeit in a different way.

Unknown

over_clocked wrote:

fast speed PvP

what other speed PVP is there?

over_clocked

There's climbing PvP... PvP where you hit progressions early and leave at that (not shielding yet). PvP where you aren't high enough to attract all kind of attacks.
In Carnage PvP my Carnage was, like many others', tiny and quite useless; I took on Scarpooch's max-cover Carnage team with my Fistbuster, promptly wiped. Switched to Hulkbuster/PX, tried again. Won with huge losses. Then found Gipsy Danger's max level Carnage, went in with Goddess/Loki just for kicks, won with _no_ damage taken.

Pictures:

HB:


Goddess:


That's from Growth Industry, the 4th node. My scaling is quite high, has hit level 250~ for that node.

Again, Hulkbuster cannot pull damage out of his bu... out of thin air. Goddess can, in increasing volumes. What's not to like? She's clearly more powerful than Hulkbuster in my eyes.

Unknown

over_clocked wrote:

There's climbing PvP... PvP where you hit progressions early and leave at that (not shielding yet). PvP where you aren't high enough to attract all kind of attacks.
In Carnage PvP my Carnage was, like many others', tiny and quite useless; I took on Scarpooch's max-cover Carnage team with my Fistbuster, promptly wiped. Switched to Hulkbuster/PX, tried again. Won with huge losses. Then found Gipsy Danger's max level Carnage, went in with Goddess/Loki just for kicks, won with _no_ damage taken.

HB:


Goddess:


That's from Growth Industry, the 4th node. My scaling is quite high, has hit level 250~ for that node.



Again, Hulkbuster cannot pull damage out of his bu... out of thin air. Goddess can, in increasing volumes. What's not to like? She's clearly more powerful than Hulkbuster in my eyes.

so because u field 4*thor u aren't attacked and they would attack u if u had hulkbuster.....not sure if I buy that but I don't 4* either way so....

why are u using prof x/hulkbust/carnage? ofc you're gonna take dmg

simonsez

raisinbman wrote:

so because u field 4*thor u aren't attacked and they would attack u if u had hulkbuster.....not sure if I buy that but I don't 4* either way so....

why are u using prof x/hulkbust/carnage? ofc you're gonna take dmg

I like how you type "u" and "dmg" and "ofc" so your words take up less space, after needlessly quoting a page and a half of screenshots...

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

so because u field 4*thor u aren't attacked and they would attack u if u had hulkbuster.....not sure if I buy that but I don't 4* either way so....

why are u using prof x/hulkbust/carnage? ofc you're gonna take dmg

I like how you type "u" and "dmg" and "ofc" so your words take up less space, after needlessly quoting a page and a half of screenshots...

I like how u needlessly add snark and are offtopic

~~~

you know what they say about assumptions

Der_Lex

raisinbman wrote:

so because u field 4*thor u aren't attacked and they would attack u if u had hulkbuster.....not sure if I buy that but I don't 4* either way so....

No, that's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that on offense, her Thoress-based teams take a lot less damage than her HB-based teams, because even though Thoress isn't as fast as HB, the fact that she has no self-damaging abilities and has a fantastic stun help to keep the amount of damage taken a lot lower. During hops at 1000 points and beyond you're probably going to want HB's speed, but on the climb to get there, Thoress can be a bigger asset.

Unknown

Der_Lex wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

so because u field 4*thor u aren't attacked and they would attack u if u had hulkbuster.....not sure if I buy that but I don't 4* either way so....

No, that's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that on offense, her Thoress-based teams take a lot less damage than her HB-based teams, because even though Thoress isn't as fast as HB, the fact that she has no self-damaging abilities and has a fantastic stun help to keep the amount of damage taken a lot lower. During hops at 1000 points and beyond you're probably going to want HB's speed, but on the climb to get there, Thoress can be a bigger asset.

ok, thx for the explanation.

So thor being "safer" doesn't really mean much, but I guess that's why there's random 250+ xforce in PVP as well

Der_Lex

raisinbman wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

so because u field 4*thor u aren't attacked and they would attack u if u had hulkbuster.....not sure if I buy that but I don't 4* either way so....

No, that's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that on offense, her Thoress-based teams take a lot less damage than her HB-based teams, because even though Thoress isn't as fast as HB, the fact that she has no self-damaging abilities and has a fantastic stun help to keep the amount of damage taken a lot lower. During hops at 1000 points and beyond you're probably going to want HB's speed, but on the climb to get there, Thoress can be a bigger asset.

ok, thx for the explanation.

So thor being "safer" doesn't really mean much, but I guess that's why there's random 250+ xforce in PVP as well

It means that you can do a longer prolonged climb than you could with HB, because it takes longer for you to run out of health packs. Safety from enemy attacks doesn't really matter: up until about 900-1000 points people tend to look for easier targets than a team with just about any maxed 4* anyway, regardless of whether that's HB, Thoress, X or Carnage, and when you get high enough, people will take on any team if it's worth enough points.

As for Xforce, he may not be the best character in the game that he once was, but his black is still one of the hardest hitting powers out there, even when he's not buffed. Xforce/Cyke is still one of my preferred teams to take out HB quickly (along with IF in shield sim), and I still use Xfist a lot during weeks where I don't have many of the buffed characters, or the ones I do have don't have enough synergy for my tastes.

Unknown

Der_Lex wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

so because u field 4*thor u aren't attacked and they would attack u if u had hulkbuster.....not sure if I buy that but I don't 4* either way so....

No, that's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that on offense, her Thoress-based teams take a lot less damage than her HB-based teams, because even though Thoress isn't as fast as HB, the fact that she has no self-damaging abilities and has a fantastic stun help to keep the amount of damage taken a lot lower. During hops at 1000 points and beyond you're probably going to want HB's speed, but on the climb to get there, Thoress can be a bigger asset.

ok, thx for the explanation.

So thor being "safer" doesn't really mean much, but I guess that's why there's random 250+ xforce in PVP as well

It means that you can do a longer prolonged climb than you could with HB, because it takes longer for you to run out of health packs. Safety from enemy attacks doesn't really matter: up until about 900-1000 points people tend to look for easier targets than a team with just about any maxed 4* anyway, regardless of whether that's HB, Thoress, X or Carnage, and when you get high enough, people will take on any team if it's worth enough points.

As for Xforce, he may not be the best character in the game that he once was, but his black is still one of the hardest hitting powers out there, even when he's not buffed. Xforce/Cyke is still one of my preferred teams to take out HB quickly (along with IF in shield sim), and I still use Xfist a lot during weeks where I don't have many of the buffed characters, or the ones I do have don't have enough synergy for my tastes.

I don't disagree with you, 4* already dissuade people

I was just excited to hear some secret tech about Jane Foster and it turns out she's "safer", meh

mjh

Does anyone know how much to level from the following?

70 > 200 - 124k

200 > 250 - 165k

250 > 270 - 75k

Grand Total: 364k, about right

GrumpySmurf1002

mjh wrote:

Does anyone know how much to level from the following?

70 > 200

200 > 250

250 > 270 - 75k

It's roughly 120k (cost of a 3*) to go from 70->199, 199->237, 237->270.

This is a better link for the cumulative costs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1324351701

mjh

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

This is a better link for the cumulative costs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1324351701

I was looking for that, thanks

Phaserhawk

So I have really been wanting to take this guy to 5/3/5 as it allows me to pair him with other 4*'s, like X-Force, King Pin, and PX but after running the numbers, I just can't justify doing it, even though if you run him with those guys, it makes more sense to go 5/3/5 it's just the loss of 2 tiles being overwritten is a total loss of about 1 red AP and maybe 1-2 other colored AP from a cascade, vs. getting 3 more AP and massive strike tiles at 3-5 in black.

Can anyone come up with a statistically better reason to go 5/3/5 over 5/5/3. Take strike tiles and def tiles out of it. Does 11 black AP into 9 Red AP a better option over creating 7 green into red for a cascade. I'm sure blue has a better payoff if it goes off? Thoughts, comments?