*** Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff) ***

Wobby

Mawtful wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

He still seems terrible. If the tiles were indestructible maybe but when I used him I destroyed half the locked tiles with match 4s and when playing against him in the simulator I would just match some of them to defuse him. Killed him second without it ever going off even after making a lot of blue matches.

Yeah, he's not great. I'd be interested in running him alongside Loki - to make it so that using match 4's to take out locked tiles has some risk to it. Of course, then you're stuck dangerously close to running a fairly squishy team with no real source of damage.

I took Loki, QS and IW into today's DDQ. It worked fairly well. I didn't realize that force bubble tiles would trigger Supersonic.
This isn't a great team though. As you can imagine.
Issue is the only damage outlet is green for IW to blow up the tiles that QS wants to blow up.

Take Loki out and swap in Luke Cage and you have another troll team, but again, too much cover overlap.

QS is the 3* I have max covered faster than any other, and he sits at level 40. 3/5/5 waste of time. I wish I could make him better...

wymtime

Wobby wrote:

Mawtful wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

He still seems terrible. If the tiles were indestructible maybe but when I used him I destroyed half the locked tiles with match 4s and when playing against him in the simulator I would just match some of them to defuse him. Killed him second without it ever going off even after making a lot of blue matches.

Yeah, he's not great. I'd be interested in running him alongside Loki - to make it so that using match 4's to take out locked tiles has some risk to it. Of course, then you're stuck dangerously close to running a fairly squishy team with no real source of damage.

I took Loki, QS and IW into today's DDQ. It worked fairly well. I didn't realize that force bubble tiles would trigger Supersonic.
This isn't a great team though. As you can imagine.
Issue is the only damage outlet is green for IW to blow up the tiles that QS wants to blow up.

Take Loki out and swap in Luke Cage and you have another troll team, but again, too much cover overlap.

QS is the 3* I have max covered faster than any other, and he sits at level 40. 3/5/5 waste of time. I wish I could make him better...

Bring mystique, IF. Use mystique a blue IF purple to load up on black, and then use QS black to make match 5 blacks.
Only way to make him usefull.

dkffiv

Quicksilver might be decent (especially with IW) if blue did 4k+ damage, 2k is way too low for an AoE (same problem Vision has). His green and black could also use cost reductions (and the minimum cost should be removed for better synergy with IW).

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Quicksilver might be decent (especially with IW) if blue did 4k+ damage, 2k is way too low for an AoE (same problem Vision has). His green and black could also use cost reductions (and the minimum cost should be removed for better synergy with IW).

Problem with increasing his blue damage is that its free. It requires setup, and a lot of it as the AI likes TU matches, but you can spend 100% of the blue you get somewhere else and never on him. And maybe this is his problem; what if just had a passive of making the locked tiles with team blue matches and active as a damage dealer, then make it AoE damage with enough locked tiles up. Like, 10~12 AP for 4500 single target damage plus 500 to the enemy team (including the main target) per locked tile on board, unlocking them aftewards.

dkffiv

ShionSinX wrote:

Problem with increasing his blue damage is that its free. It requires setup, and a lot of it as the AI likes TU matches, but you can spend 100% of the blue you get somewhere else and never on him. And maybe this is his problem; what if just had a passive of making the locked tiles with team blue matches and active as a damage dealer, then make it AoE damage with enough locked tiles up. Like, 10~12 AP for 4500 single target damage plus 500 to the enemy team (including the main target) per locked tile on board, unlocking them aftewards.

Every other passive in the game is free too. LC, IF, Daken, PX, you name it. In my experience it ends up taking a lot of effort to get blue to go off (with random 4 matches taking out 2 locked tiles at a time) that it should do large amounts of damage if it manages to proc. His green is terrible and his black is decent but pretty damn expensive. Nothing about his kit justifies bringing him along.

Unknown

ShionSinX wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

Quicksilver might be decent (especially with IW) if blue did 4k+ damage, 2k is way too low for an AoE (same problem Vision has). His green and black could also use cost reductions (and the minimum cost should be removed for better synergy with IW).

Problem with increasing his blue damage is that its free. It requires setup, and a lot of it as the AI likes TU matches, but you can spend 100% of the blue you get somewhere else and never on him. And maybe this is his problem; what if just had a passive of making the locked tiles with team blue matches and active as a damage dealer, then make it AoE damage with enough locked tiles up. Like, 10~12 AP for 4500 single target damage plus 500 to the enemy team (including the main target) per locked tile on board, unlocking them aftewards.

Here, I'll fix it:

(Passive):
Creates a lock tile every round. If Quicksilver makes a match and there are >4 locks on the board, he does X team damage.

Done, now it's quick and useful and not boring blue collection.

Phaserhawk

I've been playing him a lot and have a more favorable opinion than before, but he does need a tweak.

Blue has to explode on 4th tile, not 5th. Tweak the AoE dmg down, he's fixed on that

Green needs to then drop to at least 9 AP and create 2 crits or go to 8 ap create 1 crits but even more dmg

Black should go to 10 AP and needs a dmg boost. Or drop to 9 AP and keep the rest

Best way to see him played is with his Magnetic father and Loki. Try that trifecta and you will see how close QS is to being solid and why my suggestions are almost spot on

donietsche

Phaserhawk wrote:

I've been playing him a lot and have a more favorable opinion than before, but he does need a tweak.

Blue has to explode on 4th tile, not 5th. Tweak the AoE dmg down, he's fixed on that

Green needs to then drop to at least 9 AP and create 2 crits or go to 8 ap create 1 crits but even more dmg

Black should go to 10 AP and needs a dmg boost. Or drop to 9 AP and keep the rest

Best way to see him played is with his Magnetic father and Loki. Try that trifecta and you will see how close QS is to being solid and why my suggestions are almost spot on

100% agree.

I also believe that the tiles created with the blue passive should be locked only for the opponent (unless he has a bagsilver too?).

Those tiles should slow down the match only for the latter, and not for the player with QS in his roster (and the thing would make sense lore wise...).

Moreover, t would be interesting if the (unilaterally) locked tiles could be matched together, creating some (significant) additional damage, or any other additional effect (stun? AP generation or stealing?).

Though i realize that this mechanic could turn out to be problematic in mirror matches.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

I've been playing him a lot and have a more favorable opinion than before, but he does need a tweak.

Blue has to explode on 4th tile, not 5th. Tweak the AoE dmg down, he's fixed on that

Green needs to then drop to at least 9 AP and create 2 crits or go to 8 ap create 1 crits but even more dmg

Black should go to 10 AP and needs a dmg boost. Or drop to 9 AP and keep the rest

Best way to see him played is with his Magnetic father and Loki. Try that trifecta and you will see how close QS is to being solid and why my suggestions are almost spot on

U don't believe Charles/Pietro/Danny is best?

donietsche wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I've been playing him a lot and have a more favorable opinion than before, but he does need a tweak.

Blue has to explode on 4th tile, not 5th. Tweak the AoE dmg down, he's fixed on that

Green needs to then drop to at least 9 AP and create 2 crits or go to 8 ap create 1 crits but even more dmg

Black should go to 10 AP and needs a dmg boost. Or drop to 9 AP and keep the rest

Best way to see him played is with his Magnetic father and Loki. Try that trifecta and you will see how close QS is to being solid and why my suggestions are almost spot on

100% agree.

I also believe that the tiles created with the blue passive should be locked only for the opponent (unless he has a bagsilver too?).

Those tiles should slow down the match only for the latter, and not for the player with QS in his roster (and the thing would make sense lore wise...).

Moreover, t would be interesting if the (unilaterally) locked tiles could be matched together, creating some (significant) additional damage, or any other additional effect (stun? AP generation or stealing?).

Though i realize that this mechanic could turn out to be problematic in mirror matches.

Would be an interesting wrinkle to give him the ability to move locked tiles.

Deadsider

I really like Quicksilver even though he's practically forced to play with Prof X. I really hope they keep this style in the future, because it plays so much differently that I find it the most enjoyable team I have played in my meager 344 days. That all said, I think most people are looking at his blue the wrong way. It's not a big team kill, it's a buff/debuff. Each one of those locks makes other powers cheaper and many times has made the difference to me, and the locks prevent some strong plays but that goes for the opponent too. Nobody plays quite like him and he's just so fun that he's unique to me.

I kinda think he's fine as is. Not every character has to be a big meaty Hulkbuster as long as they have a place in some team somewhere to shine. That, and to not get choked with features if you don't like them.

Unknown

Deadsider wrote:

I kinda think he's fine as is.

nah, buddy

Phaserhawk

Deadsider wrote:

I really like Quicksilver even though he's practically forced to play with Prof X. I really hope they keep this style in the future, because it plays so much differently that I find it the most enjoyable team I have played in my meager 344 days. That all said, I think most people are looking at his blue the wrong way. It's not a big team kill, it's a buff/debuff. Each one of those locks makes other powers cheaper and many times has made the difference to me, and the locks prevent some strong plays but that goes for the opponent too. Nobody plays quite like him and he's just so fun that he's unique to me.

I kinda think he's fine as is. Not every character has to be a big meaty Hulkbuster as long as they have a place in some team somewhere to shine. That, and to not get choked with features if you don't like them.

He's close to being fine, and agreed not every character needs to be a powerhouse he just needs a tweak to be consistent and a little more self sufficient

Deadsider

A slight buff on his green and triggering blue on 4, perhaps. Perhaps. But that would unbalance his X mentor combo, which I happen to feel is just barely skirting the line but coming down to fair game as it currently is. Again, he doesn't need to anchor every team, just needs a place to shine and not be forced into features. So far, he's got that.

stowaway

There doesn't seem to be a huge consensus on best build. I guess because both green and black are non-scaling abilities that have a small amount of scaled damage tacked on? I just pulled a 13th cover, and have him now at 5/5/3. Was wondering if there's any meaningful reason to go a different route with him when his green comes up in DDQ in a week or two.

Feels strange to already have 13 covers for a new character, when ancient standbys like Spider-Man and Hulk remain unfinished.

LuciferianX

So, I really dislike the way QS was done, because I think the concept is great, but the execution is poor. The fix I want (that is not mine, but I don't know if Klaital posted it) is simple:

-- Passive unchanged; match blue, lock a tile
-- Add to both other powers: upon activation, create a locked tile
-- Reduce/remove the damage dealing ability of green & blue
-- Amp the damage of the 'time bomb' effect

This may not be perfect, but it is much more indicative of a 'speedster' type character. The faster he goes, the nastier he gets. It also means that with enough AP, you can make a slew of locked tiles, then match blue, and set them all off at once (say at 166/5, 950/tile; so on a really strong rush, he can create six or seven and strikes for upwards of 6k, which would make him reasonably competitive and give the player materially more control). Again, I really dislike his power set in general, but I particularly dislike the low damage and total unreliability of the bomb. If you can set up for four, then match blue on your turn, you at least have the opportunity to give your opponent pause before charging in.

dkffiv

The best theoretical team I could come up with was 5/5/3 Invis Woman, 5/3/5 Star-Lord, 5/5/3 Quicksilver and its horrible. Even with all the blue funneling into bubbles on TU tiles QS's moves are still really expensive. It usually takes several turns before a QS black can form a match-5 and the damage on blue is pathetic, I was basically waiting for SL's red and purple to down the enemy team. I ran it on that level 395 Storm node and if she gets Hailstorm off QS is basically useless because he can't target special tiles with black. He really feels like he's contributing next to nothing.

stowaway wrote:

There doesn't seem to be a huge consensus on best build. I guess because both green and black are non-scaling abilities that have a small amount of scaled damage tacked on? I just pulled a 13th cover, and have him now at 5/5/3. Was wondering if there's any meaningful reason to go a different route with him when his green comes up in DDQ in a week or two.

Feels strange to already have 13 covers for a new character, when ancient standbys like Spider-Man and Hulk remain unfinished.

All his covers are pathetic. Blue takes so long to set up (even with IW accelerating it) and the damage is so damn low. His black and green are basically only their for their effects so more covers there doesn't really help either. I don't really like his green because if the crit tile ends up somewhere where it can't be immediately matched I'm afraid the AI will use it against me, hence why I'd normally try to bring a better green if I was forced to use him. His black doesn't really have any drawbacks and for that reason I'd keep 5/5/3.

Unknown

I was surprised at how decently Quicksilver/SW/Vision worked. SW provided extra blue for both Quicksilver's passive and Vision's heavy. Vision tanked 3 colors. If you matched away the countdown it drove QS' passive, and made his green way cheaper. Lost (or was heavily injured?) in one match due a bad cascade at the beginning with heavy out.

dkffiv

daibar wrote:

I was surprised at how decently Quicksilver/SW/Vision worked. SW provided extra blue for both Quicksilver's passive and Vision's heavy. Vision tanked 3 colors. If you matched away the countdown it drove QS' passive, and made his green way cheaper. Lost (or was heavily injured?) in one match due a bad cascade at the beginning with heavy out.

That's only because they were level 300+ and had ridiculous amounts of health. If they were as squishy as they normally are you'd zerg down SW before she got a purple off then down Vision before he ended up with blue and tanking the whole board. It'd be safe enough to kill QS last and he'd get off maybe 1 blue AoE. They're slow characters and don't normally have the health to wait it out to stock their AP pools.

Dauthi

dkffiv wrote:

daibar wrote:

I was surprised at how decently Quicksilver/SW/Vision worked. SW provided extra blue for both Quicksilver's passive and Vision's heavy. Vision tanked 3 colors. If you matched away the countdown it drove QS' passive, and made his green way cheaper. Lost (or was heavily injured?) in one match due a bad cascade at the beginning with heavy out.

That's only because they were level 300+ and had ridiculous amounts of health. If they were as squishy as they normally are you'd zerg down SW before she got a purple off then down Vision before he ended up with blue and tanking the whole board. It'd be safe enough to kill QS last and he'd get off maybe 1 blue AoE. They're slow characters and don't normally have the health to wait it out to stock their AP pools.

If Vision is tanking 3 colors this point is moot thanks to his yellow though.

Kolence

After thinking some more about his blue power and what I believe it is meant to do, which is speed up his other moves and disrupt his enemy's moves but not his own team's, here is a more elegant way to accomplish it than the previous one I came up with. At least I hope it is.

Idle Hands - 11 AP
Quicksilver just can't help using his speed to make the enemy look stupid. Swaps the position of 2 selected basic tiles. Costs 1 AP less for every Trap tile QS has on the board (minimum 7 AP).

Supersonic - 6 AP
(PASSIVE) Quicksilver dashes through the battlefield messing with the enemy's plans and causing a bit of chaos. Whenever anyone makes a Blue match, Quicksilver places a Trap on a random Basic tile. The Trap tile gives no AP if matched by the enemy team.
(ACTIVE) If QS has 4+ Traps, he can detonate them all, dealing (1/4 of current values) of damage for each trap to the enemy team.

Fists of Fury - 10 AP
Quicksilver grabs his enemy and pummels them with a furious blur of punches. Creates 1 random Critical tile. Costs 1 AP less for every Trap tile QS has on the board (minimum 6 AP).


When the enemy matches a trap, it basically drains 1 AP of the tile's color from enemy's reserve. Can't say how balanced it would be, but maybe at 5 covers it could increase to 2 AP, so a match-3 with one trap in it would only give 1 AP.
Because of mirror matches it should first place the enemy QS' trap and then yours, when making a blue match - there would be a tiny chance they overwrite one another.
If it is too long to wait for 4 traps to be able to detonate them (against Storm or someone else who can spam the board to overwrite traps), maybe decrease the threshold to 3. The damage is always the same per trap anyway. The idea is to make the AI wait some more so it uses his other powers cheaper on defense.