Changes to Versus Matchmaking [Update]

Unknown

I'm getting really wild results. My roster is mostly 94* (including DD) with exception of 110 Hulk/Patch and 150 Xforce, from get go I'm getting matched with 166+boost/270/270 but also 94/94/loner-or-100ishDD. Also some transition teams of 100-140 3*. Can't say I really faced wall before 575 though where it's 270 all the time.
Overall it's not that terrible, and early 270s that show often offered 50 points.

Unknown

Wow, the recent changes are god awful. PvP is just Seed teams and then high level, usually maxed out opponents.

Way to go D3. Between nerfing your best characters and making PvP an awful grind, I'll be taking the spring and summer off from playing MPQ.

fmftint

Second, we’re reducing the maximum difficulty of opponents we send you, when there are enough available opponents to allow that. Players who were already seeing only opponents of their level and below in Heavy Metal won’t notice much difference here, but this will help players that are between the 2-star level cap and the 3-star cap, or between the 3-star cap and the 4-star cap


This is not remotely working as intended

Vohnkar

I'm starting to think that the new system destroyed the transitioners more than 3* players. Its a lot more grindy and dificult to climb, but I can climb with my 166 X-forrce, 150 DD (245 on this event) and 166 thor/155 spidy. I've needed a ton of healthpacks during the last 2 days, I play until I get out of Health, wait for them to replenish and push again, did 3-4 pushes during yesterday and today morning and I'm at 400 points sitting in top 50 on my bracket (started yesterday morning).

I've been facing maxed 3* since the 4th match (after seeds). I've skipped a lot to find some not maxed teams (120-150) worth points, but usually the ones maxed are the only ones worth 20+. I've targeted a couple of 270 with boosts (Sorry guys) for 40+ points, but for the most part has been 20-25 points of maxed 3* until 400. The thing is that everybody around me on the rankings are people with maxed 3* and 4s, no 2* player around. I usually saw a lot of 2* in the top 100, not anymore.

In fact my father is a transitional player, he has almost every 2* at 94 and 5-6 at 102, he is facing lvls 100+ after the 3 seeds, so he can't climb past 200 points, now he is facing maxed 4*. So maybe the system is harder for everyone afterall. If this is the case they will need to down a litle the progression rewards of the season, usually at this point my alliance had at least 5 players close or past the 2k points mark, and right now only 2 of us make it trhough.

killerkoala

they should return to old MMR. but the thing they should fix is losing points from rosters far superior to the than the one attacked. i've always advocated, 2*'s shouldn't lose points from 4*/max 3* teams. same as 3*'s shouldn't lose points from Max 4*. there should be tiered points lost system based on team strength.

as an attacker you should get points from attacking lower, equal to or far superior teams; and lose points if you lose.
getting attacked from teams lower or +50 levels to yours, you should lose points like usual, but you have a chance to retaliate back to get your points back.
but you don't lose point from teams +50 level higher than your attacker; attackers will get points as usual, but "attackies" have a chance to retaliate back to get more points.

featured characters should be counted as base level not boosted. this will make everyone still get point from attacking whoever they want. but this will solve lower rosters losing morale from not being able to retaliate back yet losing 30+ points. what do you guys think of this solution?

slidecage

if your team sucks there is no reason to even play PVP now. Jump in 20 to 25 mins before the end time since you should be able to get to 200 in 20 mins and pray for a new bracket.

ZootSax

I finally hit the 300 progression in "Blind Justice" with a Level 94 roster plus a Level 66 (unboosted) 1/2/2 Daredevil. It took literally thousands of to skip the 166+ guys and find someone in the 94-120 range to actually beat. I never saw a single character below Level 94, except for the seed teams and single-cover, loaner DD's. I also never (intentionally) skipped a 94 team, so the climb to 304 took every single Level 94-120 roster I could find over the span of two days and there were A LOT of repeats (I accidentally skipped one 94 team but I found him/her again later).

Two observations beyond what I said previously:
1) Before, it was possible for a 2* roster to hit 400 points reliably in PVP even if you were using the loaner character. I'm honestly not sure that's possible anymore. I'm not even sure 300 is possible with a loaner anymore. Hulk is my highest leveled character, so his PVP wasn't much grindy than any other Hulk PVP had been previously...it just cost a lot more iso on skipping people way above my level. Daredevil tanked at least two colors and TU's, so in his PVP that kept my heavy-hitters alive, even if his own powers weren't always game-changing. A boosted, loaner character will tank zero colors and likely provide no useful abilities over your other two characters, assuming maxed 2*'s. Without any battles against sub-Level 94's, having a dead weight on your roster really lowers your chances of winning, much less getting any defensive wins (a full quarter of my points in the Hulk PVP came on defense...presumably because I had a good Hulk, but other 2*'s had to try anyway since there are so few other valid targets). Maybe the intent is for rosters using the loaner character to have a much harder time of things, but if so, that hasn't been stated in any of D3's official announcements about the MMR change and it's a pretty big change from previously.

2) For as hard as it has been for me to find non-maxed 3* opponents, it appears that maxed 3* players have had an equally hard time finding me. I find myself sitting in the top 25 in the last hour (I'm at 23, so there's no way it lasts), but in the entire event I've only had 4 defensive losses. Considering I can't see a single non-140+ roster around me in the standings, nor a single non-166+ in the Top 10, I SHOULD be getting absolutely pounded....but I'm not, yet. With how much harder things are now, my apparent, relative invisibility is the only thing that makes a Top 100 at all possible. It seems as unfair that people in the 35-20 range in the standings aren't easily finding me as it is that I can't find a single roster below my level in the new PVP. (Edit: I just checked a moment ago before I posted this and I got attacked 5 more times since I started typing this, bring my total defensive losses to 8, with a defensive win as well--my new losses were two retaliations and two 130-145 rosters, neither of which are anywhere I can see in the standings--I'm still sitting at 40th place, somehow).

Again, I'm preaching to the choir here, but this MMR is fundamentally flawed...

mjh

This MMR is bad as stated in the previous 20 pages but I'd like to add that D3 will not see how bad it is because the top guys will still hit high scores.

Crewsaders currently only have 3 people under 1000 in the pvp, with a considerable number over 1400. Top guys are not affected by these changes, only middle and lower tier players get punished.

Vohnkar

Adding some more feedback just in case someone from D3 is reading and wants to address this nightmare MMR thing.

Playing with my DD 150(245 bufed)+wolv 4* 166+Spiderman 150 or so. I've been facing 140+ since I did seed teams, some 120-140 here and there after losts of skips for 20 points. It seems I'm geting the same players all the time, I've hitted a node for 31 points with a luke 166 I think and a hulk. Got retaliated for 9 points (Thanks, at least getting hit for less points is working!!!!), Hitted again for 30 more points (I really hope he lost only 9-12 points like me or he will be sinking in his rankings), and now after some more skips I got him queued again.

If he decides to hit me again he will be hitted 2 more times for 60 points... Its a doable match for my wolverine (for now, when the nerf come I'll see what team I come up with ) and is the only one that gives me 30 points.

I've been hit maybe 10 times since I started yesterday, got a couple of defensive wins so I've lost around 50 points maybe in total.

It keeps getting harder and harder, the matches gives low points and they seems to rotate the same people around.

Unknown

Adding my 2 cents as well, for what it's worth.

I'm coming up on day 475 now. I play quite a bit, but don't have a ton of cash to pour into the game, although I'd certainly like to. I've spent maybe 30 or 40 bucks over the time, which is a great value for the time that I've put into it.

I've been through all the highs and lows of the changes, nerfing characters I like, boosting characters I don't have, and the whole deal with true healing. I have a reasonably wide roster of 37 characters, mostly 2s and 3s, but only 3 or 4 of my guys are over level 100. Those guys are just barely over too.

I'm totally getting crushed since this change. I make it to like 150 points or 200 points if I'm lucky, but I consistently get NO ONE at my level. It's all maxed-out 3s and 4s against my maxed out 2s and level 100 3s.

I'm having to give up on player vs player for now, and hope for a fix. I'm having to give up on this season as well, because I just can't get the points to earn that 10 pack token reward. I've been able to get that reward for most seasons up until now, and so I am kind of bummed.

So I guess that puts me in that 2*-3* transition bucket that's going to get trashed by this change. I love the game and all, but I can't make a career out of it. I'm not going to rage quit or anything, but I'll probably need to take a step back and hope for a fix.

Unknown

Fromgard wrote:

Here my results on Daredevil pvp : I have a lvl 94 2* roster and after clearing the seed teams I got 166 wall of Death with 95 pts , so again after Hulk pvp , I can not play longer , this bad changes will last how long dev's ?

Actually you let run messed up MMR for 2 pvp events , who I clearly cannot play and will definitively impact on my chances to reach 4000 pts to get the 10 heroic's pack.

So hurry and make pvp playable again .

This should stand out as a pretty good example of why such changes shouldn't been made all willy nilly during the season. Fairly egregious that the large segment of players that struggle to hit 300 to 400 per pvp to get the10 pack (and these are the transition players that need that reward the most) are now going to be Sol on that.
Also, maybe learn to play test your changes instead of the usual -mic drop- on a Friday and hope everyone is less angry by Monday.

Unknown

Almost certain that the new matchmaking is buggy, or has somehow became buggy after some time has passed since the PvP events started.

I'm on my newbie account to see what I get matched up with. This account has highest level character Lv 70 Fury, Lv 66 Kamala, and Lv 60 OBW.
I join Blind Justice (newbie bracket), with 2 hours left. after beating the 3 seed teams I'm at 70 points. My match-ups:

115 DD / 114 Psylocke / 127 Mohawk, worth 22 pts
77 DD / 153 LCap / 105 R&G, worth 38 pts
199 DD / 130 GSBW / 130 Hulk, worth 26 pts

Now I start skipping:
159 DD / 102 R&G / 127 Mystique, worth 26 pts
122 DD / 153 LThor / 140 Spiderman, worth 40 pts
201 DD / 166 Hulk / 166 LCap, worth 45 pts
208 DD / 137 Hood / 166 Patch, worth 39 pts
70 DD / 40 Mohawk / 50 Iron Man 35, worth 22 pts (yay)
290 DD / 94 Ares / 111 XForce, worth 39 pts
219 DD / 166 Hulk / 166 Patch, worth 33 pts
227 DD / 140 LCap / 166 Hulk, worth 27 pts
70 DD / 53 SG / 53 Doc Oct, worth 22 pts (yay)
70 DD / 166 LThor / 166 LCap, worth 41 pts

After beating those 2 (yay) teams, I'm at 114 points. My match-ups:
170 DD / 94 CStorm / 94 Daken, worth 19 pts
112 DD / 166 Hood / 166 LThor, worth 38 pts
135 DD / 145 Hood / 166 Punisher, worth 20 pts
115 DD / 153 LThor / 140 LDaken, worth 39 pts
70 DD / 51 Thor / 53 Wolverine, worth 19 pts (yay)
227 DD / 207 XForce / 166 LDaken, worth 36 pts
245 DD / 94 Hawkeye / 95 Doom, worth 30 pts
115 DD / 127 Hulk / 166 Patch, worth 40 pts
157 DD / 94 Mohawk / 120 GSBW, worth 22 pts
192 DD / 152 XForce / 166 LThor, worth 41 pts

After beating the single (yay) team, I'm at 134 pts, ranked #19 in the newbie bracket. My match-ups:
182 DD / 94 Daken / 153 Punisher, worth 22 pts
159 DD / 94 OBW / 130 Hulk, worth 30 pts
166 DD / 168 XForce / 166 GSBW, worth 32 pts
145 DD / 114 Spiderman / 121 Sentry, worth 31 pts
70 DD / 166 CMag / 166 Patch, worth 29 pts
70 DD / 94 CStorm / 94 MNMag, worth 22 pts (yay...?)
164 DD / 141 Hulk / 201 XForce, worth 23 pts
96 DD / 166 Deadpool / 172 XForce, worth 40 pts
131 DD / 166 Patch / 166 LDaken, worth 23 pts
79 DD / 140 LThor / 153 Deadpool, worth 36 pts

I gamble on the (yay...?) team and win, now I'm at 156 pts, ranked #14. My match-ups:
70 DD / 165 Patch / 161 Spiderman, worth 25 pts
269 DD / 166 BP / 166 CMag, worth 37 pts
248 DD / 166 Hulk / 166 GSBW, worth 21 pts
126 DD / 168 XForce / 104 Mohawk, worth 28 pts
152 DD / 166 Punisher / 126 CMag, worth 22 pts
266 DD / 154 Hulk / 139 XForce, worth 35 pts
141 DD / 91 Spiderman / 209 XForce, worth 25 pts
290 DD / 152 XForce / 140 She-Hulk, worth 25 pts
70 DD / 166 Hulk / 127 Punisher, worth 22 pts
70 DD / 112 BP / 120 Patch, worth 29 pts

Total matches played: 7
Total skips: A lot
Thinks that this is a bug, not a feature: Yes
ETA on fix: Not soon enough

Unknown

Had to give up after first few battles in all PvP events since changes due to facing opponents significantly leveled higher, as in 270/166/166 teams, after clearing the initial filler teams. In previous PvP events I would at least try to reach 3-400 points for the event token and 25 HP but now, no chance to reach these lower tier progression rewards. Actually, probably could reach them by blowing up my roster, which will take too long to regenerate the characters as well as burning thru health packs. But, I ain't doing that!

Whub Whubz

This isn't working. Thanks for the great 2015 so far D3... NOT

fmftint

Just roll back to the old system, it worked for Teenage Riot, everyone was mostly happy, 2*s easily make 400, transitioners were able to hit the 800 point cover, max 3*s could hit 1k.

mpqr7

I have a few 166s, but I immediately hit maxed out 166 and 270 teams after the seed teams. This kills my desire to play because I've spent months getting these characters to 166, and my only reward is even harder opponents who can all very easily retaliate against me.

So there is no real progress. It all just feels like a waste of time. And it will be impossible to win any 4* covers, so there's nothing I can do to get any further, no matter how many 3* characters I power up. All hope is lost, and the game has become pointless.

Unknown

I'm a 94 roster player trying to swim through a sea of 160+ teams which is ultimately impossible. If they do revert back to the old system, they need to compensate us for the aggravation with covers or tokens . With two throw away pvp events in a row, I'm going to find it hard to reach my usual 10 pack goal. Get it together D3

Skorche

what I don't like about the new system.

Less matches means I earn less iso-8
Its harder for me to rank up.
its hard to play more matches as my heroes get more damage in the matches.

It wouldn't be sooo bad if we could set our defensive team and try out others from our roster without fear of knowing the team I just used is now my defensive team.

Unknown

Alchemist4 wrote:

I'm a 94 roster player trying to swim through a sea of 160+ teams which is ultimately impossible. If they do revert back to the old system, they need to compensate us for the aggravation with covers or tokens . With two throw away pvp events in a row, I'm going to find it hard to reach my usual 10 pack goal. Get it together D3

I'm on the same boat as you are. I've pretty much given up on PVP. I just do the seed nodes and that's it because it's been consistently the usual maxed 166/200+ teams wall after these nodes. It seems like D3 tried to fix something and it's now even worse. I was hoping to get my first 10 pack but now it looks like I won't make it in season unless there is a fix right away.

Viking Tacos

killerkoala wrote:

they should return to old MMR. but the thing they should fix is losing points from rosters far superior to the than the one attacked. i've always advocated, 2*'s shouldn't lose points from 4*/max 3* teams. same as 3*'s shouldn't lose points from Max 4*. there should be tiered points lost system based on team strength.

as an attacker you should get points from attacking lower, equal to or far superior teams; and lose points if you lose.
getting attacked from teams lower or +50 levels to yours, you should lose points like usual, but you have a chance to retaliate back to get your points back.
but you don't lose point from teams +50 level higher than your attacker; attackers will get points as usual, but "attackies" have a chance to retaliate back to get more points.

featured characters should be counted as base level not boosted. this will make everyone still get point from attacking whoever they want. but this will solve lower rosters losing morale from not being able to retaliate back yet losing 30+ points. what do you guys think of this solution?

D3 here is the bottom line: this season is not fun

and the worst part is this: "Second, we’re reducing the maximum difficulty of opponents we send you, when there are enough available opponents to allow that. Players who were already seeing only opponents of their level and below in Heavy Metal won’t notice much difference here, but this will help players that are between the 2-star level cap and the 3-star cap, or between the 3-star cap and the 4-star cap."

Don't think so d3. I see more opponents above my level and I burn 100s maybe 1000s in ISO skip tax, only to see the same 270 level teams over and over.

You took something fun and you made it not fun.

Killerkoala's idea makes common sense, gives everyone a chance, and puts the fun back in the game.

D3 are you listening?