Changes to Versus Matchmaking [Update]

ynglink

I feel the current buff system rewards for having the featured character, which is awesome and all. But man is this brutal to try and get above 500 if you don't have them maxed.

Unknown

mrflopwelligan wrote:

I did crazy awesome in Heavy Metal, and I'm doing pretty good in Smash Hit. But I'm utterly **** in Blind Justice. And, yes, I'm a 2*-3* transitioned.

I was praising the debs with Heavy Metal and Smash Hit, I think I got personal bests for each one. But, then Blind Justice, and yeeeeeesh.

Yeah, I had a similar experience. I did about what I normally do (600ish) in Heavy Metal, then set a personal best 700+ in Teenage Riot. Now, in Smash Hit, I am getting nothing but 166s.

What I'm guessing is happening is that the new matchmaking scheme uses a hidden number that is based on 1) average score or 2) some combination of roster strength and average score, where average score increases in importance until some threshold number where everyone gets matched with the same group of top-end people. It explains pretty much every sort of complaint we've seen:

a) Top end players and 3* players, following seeds, immediately get dumped in the top pool because their average scores (700+) exceed the threshold.
b) 2* and transition rosters have a pleasant experience at first, scoring higher than usual until their average scores rise.
c) Players who don't push beyond their personal bests remain in the lower tier, have a good PvP experience.
d) If average score goes high enough, the 2* players and transitioners get dumped into the top end pool, which explains why so many are seeing the same player pool as the people in a) with the very rare, occasional 2* roster -- which are, essentially, the other suckers that got dumped into the top end pool.

So, basically, for me... I saw the matchmaking system as it was supposed to work in Heavy Metal, and performed well. Performed well again Teenage Riot, enough to boost my average score to the point where I am slotted into the matchmaking tier with all of the endgame rosters. ****.

Easiest way to test this theory would be to tank a few PvP events. If your matchmaking becomes more sane as your average score drops, then we've found the problem. Basically, in the current scheme anyone who outperforms their roster for a sufficient period of time that it raises their average score will get dumped into a matchmaking pool in which they simply can't win. I assume you would then escape when your score goes back down, but in the meantime the next event or next two events are ruined for you because you can't fight through the 166 wall.

In other words, the better you do, the more screwed you are.

spccrain

So just finished hulk... At 680... I'm usually between 900-1100 and I played as much as real life allowed but every attack was met with a defensive loss. There's no point to PvP anymore... It's a tinykitty joke. I've busted my tk and devoted 500+ days to this tk game and everything I've spent my time doing has been taken away... I would ask for a refund but you can't get time back. D3 you guys are pathetic and I'm not just trying to offend. If you can truly alienate your longest standing customers in this way than you don't deserve respect.

Pylgrim

Main problem with this event is that Hulk is an old character that has been basically given away like candy. All players that have any 166 characters have a maxed Hulk. And 290 Hulk is one of the most tedious things to fight in the game, not to mention that offensively, he's actually worse than his 166 version as very few things make him angry. This all makes for a terrible pain in the butt when you have to fight 3* teams instead of the 2* teams that you used to fight under the previous MMR.

Arondite

Pylgrim wrote:

Main problem with this event is that Hulk is an old character that has been basically given away like candy. All players that have any 166 characters have a maxed Hulk. And 290 Hulk is one of the most tedious things to fight in the game, not to mention that offensively, he's actually worse than his 166 version as very few things make him angry. This all makes for a terrible pain in the butt when you have to fight 3* teams instead of the 2* teams that you used to fight under the previous MMR.

Bzzzt wrong. On my F2P account I have 166 Thor, 166 Deadpool and 166 Hood. No Hulk.

SnowcaTT

I tried to track every single match in Hulk PVP: what I attacked, what I skipped, who attacked me, what rank I was, how long between matches, how long left in event.

I ran the seed teams with 2*'s. After that, every matchup afterwards was 166 (290) Hulk, 250 5/5/2 X-force, 166 DP. I only have five 166's, boosted Hulk to that specifically for this event/test. This "best team" is pretty much forced upon everyone - if you are fighting against everyone with their best team, you have to bring your best team. [Noted two exceptions vs. Hood, when it was 290 Hulk/250 XF/166 Hood followed quickly by a DP match to keep that team on defense.]

Wall of text under spoiler tag.

A note on how I play (and how I have played for months and months), when you think: why not attack? D3 might want to pay attention to what at least THIS player enjoys. I like NOT being attacked and losing points - so regardless of how much a team that I can beat is worth, I usually won't attack a team that is likely to attack me back until near the end of the event. I'll also often skip matchups that are worth less than 20 points.

290/229 XF/153 (20, skip)
222/156 XF/111 Fury (28, hit) : four wins, zero losses, 99 points, rank 158: waited until rank 212.
290/94/94 (storm/mags - hiding 270's behind them) (23, skip)
269/159 cap/153 spidey (18, skip)
268/94/94 (Thor/Widow, 140 3* thor hiding). (22, hit) : five wins, zero losses, 121 points, rank 169.
290/223 XF/140 (23, skip)
182/188 XF/142 (21, hit): six wins, zero losses, 144 points, rank 120: waited until rank 167.
182/153/114 (28, hit): seven wins, zero losses, 172 points, rank 137
268/94/153 (17, skip)
290/270 XF/192 GT (24, skip)
290/129/166 (22, skip)
164/140 Hood/166 (24, hit with Hood instead of DP): eight wins, zero losses, 205 points, rank 100
194/153XF/127 (24, hit): eight wins, zero losses, 226 points, (still) rank 100, 46 hours remain (waiting)
[No hits overnight, rank 135, 30 hours remaining.]
250/153/153 (17, skip)
194/94 (OBW)/140 (11, skip)
290/166/166 (27, skip)
290/270/209 (29, skip)
206/213 XF/166 (26, hit): nine wins, zero losses, 255 points, rank 107
290/166/166 (25, skip)
290/166/166 (21, skip)
290/166/156 (24, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (26, skip)
173/153/114 (25, hit): ten wins, zero losses, 282 points, rank 90
290/270 XF/166 (18, skip)
173/151/150 (15, skip)
198/270 XF/270 (26, skip)
276/94 MMN/94Thor (21, hit): eleven wins, zero losses, 308 points, rank 57, 32 hours remaining (waiting)
290/269 XF/166 defensive loss (-8 points, skipped 25 point retribution)
219/140/94 (Daken) (24, hit): twelve wins, one loss, 325 points, rank 48. 30 hours remaining (waiting).
290/270 XF/166 defensive loss (-11 points, skipped 22 point retribution). twelve wins, two losses, 314 points rank 64.
219/270 XF/166 (27, skip)
290/166/166 (36, skip)
222/117/88 (daken) (22, hit): thirteen wins, two losses, 339 points, rank 46th.
290/270 XF/166 (44, skip)
290/166/141 (35, skip)
222/140/153 (21, hit): fourteen wins, two losses, 366 points, rank 30th.
[No hits overnight, 10 hours remain, 366 points, rank 59th. Almost all of the double 166's on final day include max LT.]
290/270 XF/166 (19 points, skip)
290/166/131 (19 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (29 points, skip)
245/148 XF/108 (25 points, hit) fifteen wins, two losses, 392 points, rank 46th.
290/166/140 (32 points, skip)
290/166/166 (25 points, skip)
166/166 (grocket), 142 (26 points, hit) sixteen wins, two losses, 417 points, rank 35th (waiting).
[No hits during wait, 6 hours remain, 417 points, rank 46.]
213/153/153 (16 points, skip)
236, 250 XF/166 (23 points, skip)
115/166/166 (30 points, hit) seventeen wins, two losses, 446 points, rank 34th.
[This is the smallest Hulk I see the entire event]
201/150/166 (27 points, hit) eighteen wins, two losses, 472 points, rank 29th
290/166/166 (21 points, skip)
290/270 XF/188 PX (41 points, skip)
290/188 XF/166 (20 points, skip)
290/166/166 (24 points, skip)
268/166 Hood/166 Doom (34 points, hit with XF/Hood) nineteen wins, two losses, 509 points, rank 25th (waiting).
[Just over three hours remain - something came up so I have to push a bit earlier and shield.]
290/166/166 (22 points, skip)
147/270 XF/166 (41 points, skip)
135/270 XF/176 Fury (19 points, skip)
290/270/166 (34 points, skip)
215/209 XF/140 (17 points, skip)
290/192 XF/166 (23 points, skip)
290/166/166 (26 points, skip)
245/166/192 GT (22 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (27 points, skip)
290/270 XF/192 (26 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (31 points, skip)
290/166/166 (26 points, skip)
290/166/166 (26 points, skip)
290/166/166 (22 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (24 points, skip)
142/270 XF/270 (45 points, skip)
142/270 XF/270 (same 45 points, skip)
276/250 XF/166 (23 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (27 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (32 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (37 points, skip)
219/245 XF/166 (30 points, skip)
245/192 GT/166 (22 points, skip)
290/250 GT/166 (30 points, skip)
282/270 XF/166 (23 points, skip)
290/270 XF/166 (29 points, skip)
290/270 XF/192 dino (28 points, skip)
[That's 27 skips between battles after 509 points. 19 had 275+ Hulk. 18 had 250+ 4*.]
236/270 XF (4/4/5), 94 Storm (24 points, hit) twenty wins, two losses, 535 points, rank 22nd.
290/270 XF/166 defensive loss (-14). Twenty wins, three losses, 521 points, rank 25.
290/270 XF/166 (27 points, skip retribution)
268/270 XF/166 (29 points, skip)
290/242 XF/236 GT (24 points, skip)
290/166/166 (22 points, skip)
268/166/140 (23 points, hit) twenty-one wins, three losses, 544 points, rank 27. Three hours remain.
283/229 XF/166 (20 points, skip)
217/270 XF/250 GT (35 points, skip)
290/166/166 (23 points, skip)
290/166/166 (23 points, skip)
163/238 XF/166 (20 points, hit) twenty-two wins, three losses, 562 points, rank 20.
290/229XF/166 defensive loss (-18 points, skipped 22 point retribution, over-wrote a 290/270/270 I would have skipped.)
227/250XF/250GT (24 points, skip)
201/250XF/166 (26 points, skip)
290/166/166 (25 points, skip)
220/166/166 (26 points, skip)
262/200XF/141 hood (25 points, hit with hood) twenty-three wins, four losses. Hood dead.
229/166/166 defensive win (+20). Twenty-four wins, three losses, rank 19, 589.
290/260/166 (22 points, skip)
236/269 XF/166 (18 points, skip)
285/166/166 (21 points, skip)
290/262 XF/166 (28 points, skip)
262/166/132 (19 points, hit) twenty-five wins, four losses, 610 points, rank 18, two hours remain.
290/270XF/166 (25 points, skip)
290/250XF/166 hood defensive loss (-21 points, skipped 18 point retaliation) Twenty-five wins, five losses.
290/269XF/166 (34 points, skip)
290/270XF/166 (28 points, skip)
290/270XF/166 (25 points, skip)
290/220XF/140 (30 pints, hit) Twenty-six wins, five losses, 619 points, rank 18th, 1 hour 52 minutes remain.
[DP died this round, out of health packs, three-hour shield. I have never, ever shield-hopped in this game (and only twice purchased 8 hour shield).]
278/166/166 Defensive win (+18).
290/220XF/270GT defensive loss (-0)
Finish: 19th.

Twenty-seven wins, five losses, 637 points, rank 19th. (25 matches played, two D wins, five D losses, 83 skips).
I don't know my typical number of matches, but generally I've been hitting 700 points and T100, almost never T25.

Some interesting notes to take from this:
At least 58 X-force encountered (may not have written down a couple). Fifteen hulks encountered less than level 200, no loaners seen.

Team-mates were commenting on how boring the PVP was, and I concur: with so much life to churn through, it's really hard to play a bunch in a row without needing lots of health packs (a concern I have with future PVP's if the MMR stays the same and health is boosted on so many characters).

Howzat

Having the same issues as other 2->3 transitioners (my max is 94). Went really well in HM & TR (in terms of placement, my scores weren't PBs) and now in SH straight after the 3 seed teams i got 166 nodes (even multiple 270 nodes). They were all ~45 point matches so decided to tank knowing the max point loss should be 1 (which it was, some 0). Had to tank 5 matches before getting two 94 level nodes. Beat them and was then returned to 166/270 match ups. Resumed tanking and got 1 more 94 node. I beat that node and have just given up. Sitting on 150 points and don't have the time (or roster size) to tank 4-5 matches before i get 1 winnable.

Unknown

Smash Hit

The highest level character on my roster is 94. After I finished the 3 seed teams, I was matched against full leveled X-force teams. I use to be able to average around 400-500, and in Smash Hit I got less then 100.

So with this new system, will I never be able to earn a cover in PvP until I am transitioning in to 4* land in like a year and 4 months?

I guess I have no chance now at the 10 covers for the season... Why change the matchmaking system in the middle of the season?

Vankysher

2* transitioning with no one over 85. Scored my typical 400 for the IM40 & KK pvp. Now in Hulk PvP, hit 166 & 270 teams after 5 fights including seed teams. Hovering around 100 points good for placement in the upper 200s. Guess I'm going to have to give up on pvp now.

SnagglePuss

Another 2* player reporting in and adding to my previous reports.
This was the hardest PvP i've had after it started fairly well.

Seed teams over, the usual instant 166/270 teams.
Skip those and find a bunch of mid range 2* teams, i lull myself into a false sense of security. Perhaps the MMR has been fixed.

Once i hit about 140pts It was a sea of 290 Hulk / 270 XForce / 166 Hood
Followed by umpteen combinations.
I don't know how many matches i skipped but decided to go away for an hour.

I come back and manage to find 2 more matches (crazy Hulks but winnable).
Once those are cleared it's back to 166/ 4* city.

What's frustrating is i can see other 2*/lvl94-100 teams around me but i can't get matched with them. Initially i thought because my own Hulk is boosted to 110 this somehow put me into a higher bracket. Currently sitting on about 170pts. Might as well call it a day.

It's the final hour and suddenly attacks are coming in... from other 2* players and crazy Hulks or at least winnable fights.
Each time those are cleared i go back to 166+ wall, no amount of skipping changes anything.
So i resort to waiting so i can retaliate against all those 2* teams that can see me, whereas i couldn't even see them.
That's incredibly frustrating.

GrumpySmurf1002

So that was a first for me. Within 5 minute of shielding, I saw the "....and others" message in the pop-up. 6+ hits at once.

Visibility in the new MMR world is way too high. Getting hit too quickly on the initial climb, getting hit too quickly when unshielded. And not just hit, but hit often.

Of course, not stopping top alliances from climbing to 1400+ like normal

Over__Flow

I could be wrong but I think I have the same issue now on shield simulator. I jumped from 2* opponents to full 166/270 teams since the matchmaking change. In short the pvp season is almost useless now...

Unknown

I don't have anyone past 94, but I'm being matched against nothing but 160+ teams. Smash Hit is smashing my desire to continue to play this game. The devs seem to have no idea on how build a proper match making system. Stop trying to fix something but fail by making it worse. Just go back to last seasons system. If the same thing happens in Blind Justice, I'll take my money elsewhere.

acescracked

Shield Sim is the same ****. Very first node I opened up was a 270 xforce, 270 4hor, 270 prof x. Sorry homebusiness you were worth 50 points. Though you shouldn't have lost many points.

Last season though first nodes would be mid tier 3*s worth 50 also.

Unknown

the thing i can't stand are the amount of attacks. as soon as i hit 500 points, it seemed like i was hit at least once for every fight i had. before the change, i could hit 650 pretty regularly depending on the featured character and rarely be hit while doing it. i must have fought 12 battles to get from 500 to 598, finished with over 600 because of 1 defensive win out of many, many attacks. it's just too much.

yogi_

I gave up on PvP a while ago.

Thought I would try again now. I have no one over level 100.

After the first 3 seeds teams, two of my first "real" opponents are levels 290, 166 and 166 and another is 280, 153 and 209.

Back to not bothering again.

Some time away from playing this game has been useful as a reminder as to why I am playing less and less.

Unknown

Demiurge_Will wrote:

Second, we’re reducing the maximum difficulty of opponents we send you, when there are enough available opponents to allow that. Players who were already seeing only opponents of their level and below in Heavy Metal won’t notice much difference here, but this will help players that are between the 2-star level cap and the 3-star cap, or between the 3-star cap and the 4-star cap.

I have 2 Lv130 characters and 2 Lv120 characters, I guess I fall between 2-star cap and 3-star cap. I am seeing pretty much only Lv200+/166/166 or Lv200+/270/270, mostly worth 36+ points. I have not seen any team below my level at all--teams with less than 166 have a level 290 Hulk so they still overpower my teams.

It's definitely not working as advertised.

RudeCerveza

Come on guys, I have a weekend off and there's nothing for me to play in this game. Fix this.

Viking Tacos

I'll second what davyx just said. I'm a tweener day 231 with 8 3* characters leveled to 119. I've seen mostly max 3* teams early in smash hit and maxed 4* teams late. I burned through 100's of ISO looking for matches. Only to come out battered. I could manage about 4 matches before waiting for health pack regen.

I love mpq and love playing when I can. I have kids, pets, job, other interests and when I want to play I want to play. For an hour, during smash hit I'd play for 10 minutes and then get shut out. I considered replaying the prologue again just to be able to play. That sux.

Just change the way points are won and lost. A 1* guy should not lose points because my 3* crew stomps him. I earn points for the win but the noob doesn't lose.... I reach up and beat a high 3* team they lose points and I earn extra for " strength of schedule"

They do better. I get to play more. You get quality points for stretch wins .

Win. Win. Win.

Anybody listening?

Vohnkar

Viking Tacos wrote:

I'll second what davyx just said. I'm a tweener day 231 with 8 3* characters leveled to 119. I've seen mostly max 3* teams early in smash hit and maxed 4* teams late. I burned through 100's of ISO looking for matches. Only to come out battered. I could manage about 4 matches before waiting for health pack regen.

I love mpq and love playing when I can. I have kids, pets, job, other interests and when I want to play I want to play. For an hour, during smash hit I'd play for 10 minutes and then get shut out. I considered replaying the prologue again just to be able to play. That sux.

Just change the way points are won and lost. A 1* guy should not lose points because my 3* crew stomps him. I earn points for the win but the noob doesn't lose.... I reach up and beat a high 3* team they lose points and I earn extra for " strength of schedule"

They do better. I get to play more. You get quality points for stretch wins .

Win. Win. Win.

Anybody listening?

They say they are listening, the thing you propose has been said a lot of times, 1-2* losing low to 0 points for being stomped by 3* and then as we progrese and face 3* they lose points too, etc. But they keep changing things and doing dificult changes instead of this silly easy change...