Changes to Versus Matchmaking [Update]

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

Funny, in Heavy Metal we had transitioners saying they got new personal high scores.

Did they really manage to screw _everyone_ in Smash Hit? If so, wow, impressive.

I was one of those who found Heavy Metal was great and finished around 650 vs my usual 400 or so.
Much worse experience with Smash - seeds were fine, then had maybe 2-3 fine matches, then started getting ~100-110 teams which is about where I am at so whatever, but before I got past 225 points I started seeing large quantities of 270/166/166 teams I could never beat. It cost me thousands and thousands of ISO-skipping to get to 300. I'm currently sitting at 310 but I doubt I will finish about 250. For some reason in Smash the 'fair' bracket lasted about 70 points as opposed to the 'fair' bracket in HM which lasted about 400 points.

Like I said at the time, I'm pretty sure something is bugged here.

ECOcrush

This change to PVP has been very disappointing. I've never been able to break through 500 pts in an event before. Finally, between DDQ and the last HP sale I have Lazy Thor and Colossus maxed am going to be maxing Daredevil very soon and have GSBW, R+G, Punisher, Blade, and Black Panther all leveled over 100.

So I was looking forward to finally being able to get higher scores in PVP and getting the 3* progression award - especially since now the score to get it has been reduced a bit.

But now in Smash Hit - even joining late - I'm struggling to even make it to 300 pts. And that's after I joined Kamala's event super last minute for work reasons.

I'm on day 230 so I'm certainly no vet but I definitely wouldn't consider myself a noob either so it seems like the changes can only be benefiting a very very small group of people. I really hope they can get this thing fixed.

Unknown

Just started Smash Hit slice 4. I have no characters higher than 94.

Did seed teams to 170, and all three nodes were populated with 250+ Hulk plus two 166s or 166 plus an X-Force of various levels. I skipped for five minutes straight (paying God-only-knows in skip tax) and found a grand total of TWO 94 squads.

Whatever this change is, devs... it's not working.

ErikPeter

After some further experience in the PvP:

Clearly the devs messed up the numbers a bit. Whatever is supposed to be finding a "good, but not too tough" opponent is broken.

Still, I can get behind the idea. Doable, but challenging battles, instead of grinding a ton of easy ones. Battles get harder as you raise in rank. But the problem is that the current system doesn't match the progression rewards.

To get a good finish I'd used to have to find a good bracket without hardcore 1000 points players (because those guys are crazy), and then work at it, and shield my position. In the current system, if I get a good (empty/low activity) bracket, the difficulty is much harder since I'm higher in rank, so while I might get top 25 or whatever I'm not even getting the 300 point hero token. It destroys the season rating system--like I said I'm not a 1000 point pvper, but maybe I get 500-600 points in 2/3 of the events, and near the end of the season I'm always rewarded for my efforts with the heroic 10-pack at 4000 points.

Under the new system, if I can't get to 500 (or even 300!) points, the recent changes to progression (which I was all excited about) are meaningless. And the season rewards? Yeah right!

Also: "Hey, we're giving you another chance to get Kamala Khan" mixed with "Oh, but PVP is a brutal grind that you won't win" was a bit of a bait and switch. Thanks to bad luck in seeding--I get in a bracket late and some players are already at 1000 points--there's little chance I'm getting another one of her covers. With MMR, I could do poorly in a couple PvP events and have an easier time getting the character I actually want. Say, get to 300 points, win with a crummy team, and let weaker players beat on me for a bit.

Doing away with MMR has the effect of leveling the playing field. Which means, if 15% of players have stronger rosters and more dedication than me, I will never, EVER get a top 15% win, no matter how I try to strategize. Which means I will never, EVER, EVER place 1st in an event again (which I've done a couple times through chance and luck), and any 4*s I get will be totally luck. Since I've gotten maybe 2 4*s from heroic tokens in the past year and a half,

tldr; Eradicating MMR essentially prevents me from progressing to the 4* tier. Ever.

If "it pays to lose on purpose" is what you're trying to fix, just fix that... Completely destroying the difficulty curve seems a bit more drastic. You could use a system like in pve-scaling -- if you're out of heal packs after 2 battles, maybe tone it down? Or hey, maybe just check to see if the enemy team are all 150 levels higher than the player team, and give them a more reasonable matchup in the first place.

heroguy35

Just finished smash pvp with 760 points. Took me 3 shields to get there. At 600 I was getting 3 attacks to my one win. It seems as though most are experiencing the same issues because that 760 was good enough for 12th place when 760 normally wouldn't get me top 50. I'm normally a 1k scorer and don't even use my first shield until around 800 points. It would have taken me 4 shields to get there now. As a 4* transitioner if this mmr isn't changed I have nothing to play for anymore. The 1k progression was my only way of getting 4* covers and that's not an option anymore. Pve is miserable because I have a developed roster so 1st or 2nd isn't happening there and frankly isn't worth the constant 7 day grinds anyways so what are players in my situation left with?? How do we progress now?

And now I just read that an xforce nerf may be coming which posses the question...do I even want to progress? What's the point? To have all my effort, time, iso, and hp wasted again when it's decided they're to powerful and get nerfed back to 3* levels??

I don't get it. I love this game and have never invested as much time and money into a game as this one but this **** never stops. This game could be so much more if someone would listen to the countless suggestions provided by the player base in this forum.

TxMoose

1- I'm glad this event wasn't for a critical cover for me. daredevil's 5th blue would be nice but doesn't make that much of a difference for me.
2 - I'm glad I didn't join early. maybe I find a sparse bracket here late and get lucky. bashing my head against maxxed hulks for days didn't appeal to me.

d3 - I know you've heard it from everyone else but I haven't chimed in yet. please fix or the detriment to the game experience will ultimately end up being a bad business move on your part, intended or not. if nothing else revert back to the previous mmr system and try again in the future because actual experience (based on others comments) is exactly the opposite of your stated intention.

Unknown

Hats off to the new matchmaking system this season. The developers really deserve a pat on the back and big kick on the *** for making such good use of the money people donate into the game !!

A full powered 2* roster being matched with full powered 3* roster just after 150 points. And they said Smash Hit will get us to better matchmaking !! Seriously? Is this the best you can do you dumb*** devs !!

Unknown

My friend who has a lvl 94 roster got a new personal high of 500 pts in Heavy Metal. This PVP he can't break 200 when he use to get 350-450 every pvp in the normal system. He is finding teams that are difficult for me with a 3-4* transition player while I am finding matches that he should be facing. Good job MPQ! *golf clap*

Unknown

Whatever happened with hulk event is bad. Not sure what changed, but I have only seen maxed hulk/xforce/thora teams. At least buff 3*s so I can see some different teams.

Unknown

ecir2002 wrote:

My friend who has a lvl 94 roster got a new personal high of 500 pts in Heavy Metal. This PVP he can't break 200 when he use to get 350-450 every pvp in the normal system. He is finding teams that are difficult for me with a 3-4* transition player while I am finding matches that he should be facing. Good job MPQ! *golf clap*

This! I'm a solid 2* player and even with these changes I can't even get past 250! Before I used to be able to get some ISO, and now it seems it's not worth it to play PVP anymore for 2* players working hard to get a little bit of ISO with this current change. I guess I'll be camping out at PVE for now.

cletus1985

cletus1985 wrote:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

Having 3* rosters battle 3* rosters is a harder climb than 2* rosters battling 2* rosters. So, while with a significant increase in time played the 3* player can climb higher, it is now possible for a 2* player to be in the top 50 and for very few if any 3* players to even see that player.

I think you might be misremembering what life was like with 2-star characters. The average match length (in both time and turns) for higher-level teams is significantly less than lower-level teams, and the win rate is higher.

It's not likely in the new matchmaking system that a 2-star player could be in the top 50 without being visible to players with better rosters. There would have to be no 3-star players in the event and an unusually large number of unshielded players.

In Heavy Metal, people with better rosters got to any particular point score more quickly, while taking fewer losses, than players with worse rosters. Players that are saying that worse rosters give you an advantage are mistaken. It may be true that the relative advantage of a better roster is less than it was before these changes, but it's still the intention (and judging by Heavy Metal, it appears to still be the case) that better rosters are better.

I have to disagree with you here Will (unless these new changes make the HM event a fluke). I'm just recently out of the 2* phase and had been enjoying my 3 lvl 140 characters getting me top 100 finishes finally. As a 2* I saw the bar, get my 400 pts, collect my HP and my 10-pack for the season and go on my way (I could hit 500 if I wanted to, but 575 was pretty much out of reach without using shields and getting a negative HP return). In the old system I could finally get 600+ pts because why would you attack my 140's when there were easier 94's to target (Finally stopped getting stomped), I had paid my dues and made the visible progress to start competing.

Heavy Metal went like this for me, beat my seed teams, see a couple of teams with 94's on them, mostly undercovered/underleveled 3*'s like my own roster (No problem at this point), make my way to around 500 pts being attacked a few times (still good), hit that mark and "boom" I lose 100+ pts to maxed out 3 and 4*'s, I retal a few and lose more than I gain. Essentially you've just created a system where instead of me being above the bar that I worked for months to achieve, you've raised the bar and those 94's are no longer visible so my 140's are the new fodder. I watch all my "progress" go out the window and feel completely defeated.

That was my experience in HM and now in Teenage Riot I'm sitting on 800+ pts feeling validated again. So if the HM formula stands and these new changes don't fix anything I feel like PvP has just honestly become a waste of time. I read the forums and I understood 2* land was tough, but there was a light at the end of the tunnel, I grinded in PvE to earn my covers on a fair battlefield and DDQ alleviated a lot of the pain longer term players dealt with. PvP was meant to reward those that paid their dues and I was fine with that, but if all that progress leads me into a circle where having useful 3*'s keeps me in the same position as the 2* struggle I just made it through I have to ask what's the point?

I'll give this next PvP a shot and see what these new changes bring and hopefully it's not the same as HM, but if it is I can personally say I'm done until something else is done to fix this

.

I stuck to my word and gave Smash Hit the opportunity to prove me wrong, but it failed miserably. Still only seeing maxed out Xforce + 270/166 for every match and being stuck in the 400-500 pt purgatory because I have to use boosts to have a chance to get an offensive win and then if I win my reward is using 3 healthpacks. Even with boosts I have around a 50/50 chance to win or lose as my opponents are way above my level. I'm going to start getting hit every time I get near 500 knocking me back down, so what's the incentive? I can try to find two 40+ pt matches and win before losing more points (winning two that quick is near impossible, and winning is a ? when facing teams 100+ levels above you), then shield at just over 500 and hope it gets me top 100 (also questionable), or I can say **** it this isn't fun and I'm not wasting my HP on shields just to probably end up in the top 200 and get another 2* I don't want. Which option sounds more sane?

Want to make it so everyone plays fair, how about locking out characters that are a certain level above the opponent you're facing and just let everyone fight everyone again? I'll play the same way I used to, climb on 2* teams until around 450 using my 2* teams or lvl 120 or less 3* and then break out my best 3* to take on the 3* wall. How is that not fair for 2*? They could retaliate and earn more points because I had climbed higher than the 2* rosters they would face, they only get smacked down around 500 where the 2*'s should struggle because that's where PvP became competitive. So just lock out my higher characters against lower teams, but allow me to keep fighting without running out of healthpacks every 10 min. Let us use the diversity of our rosters to succeed (wasn't this the goal just a few weeks ago) instead of making me use the same 2 characters the entire time I play because I have no other options.

TL:DR

These changes are horrible, even 2* rosters are complaining on here. I give up on PvP until it's fixed, here's a simple solution.

Unknown

I'm not much of a complainer, but I felt the need to add my voice to the choir.

I'm transitioning 2*/3* with no one over level 94. Previously, on a good event I could get up to 500 points, but I'm up to 230 points in Smash Hit, and I have no chance of progressing any further. Every team I'm pitted against consists of a 2xx/166/166 team. I just feel completely locked out of this tournament, and it feels like I've got a whole season of this in store for me (so sad face for season rewards). It's not even like there's an incentive to buy shields, as I'm not losing anything to being hit -- in fact, I think a majority of my 230 points have come from other 2* teams attacking me and losing (I guess I'm preferrable to the 2xx/166/166 teams!). So not only am I being locked out of playing, I'm being incentivized to ignore the event altogether!

Please fix -- PVP used to be a fun and intriguing event, and I was looking forward to transitioning to it more, having previously been a mostly PVE player.

dokiy

Add me to one of those folks who are not happy with this PVP event.

I have a 130 Blade, 114 Rocket & Groot, 104 Storm, 100 Hulk, 95 DD, then a 94 ** roster with a bunch of underleveled ***

Here are my current targets in Smash Hit, I'm currently at 176 points:

290 Hulk, 229 XForce, 166 Steve Rogers
187 Hulk, 168 XForce, 166 Falcon
178 Hulk, 127 Groot, 104 Blade

Pretty obvious which node I'm going after. But had to skip a few times to get the last node to show something even remotely possible to beat.

Unknown

I don't mind the words of the change, but it seems that D3's and my definition of "challenging but beatable" are vastly different.

Alkyoneus

Changes to Smash Hit are awful. I fought 3 seed teams and promptly ran into a 166/270 wall. Every single opponent I've been matched up against has been at least 10+ covered 3* characters + fully maxed Hulk or fully covered 4* characters and max Hulk. I managed to squeak out enough wins to get to 150 points but this is ridiculous. Until something is done I quit PvP. I won't even get the badly needed 10-pack heroic reward for 4,000 season points if this continues. I used to be able to hit the 4,000 point mark easily with a 94 roster but now I can't even hit 300 on an event. I'm sorry this is absolutely unacceptable.

Unknown

As someone one the second half of the 2*-3* transition with 3 3* maxed and a 155 lvl Hulk, I found the matches to be moderate to challenging. I guess this makes sense. The problem I experienced was the constant beat down for 2.5 days, getting attacked as many games as I played. My results were 100-150 points lower than typical, at the cost of an extra shield (which I won't employ next time). I finished slightly ahead of my typical ranking, but only because everyone else in my bracket was getting constantly beat down as well. I was frustrated getting attacked between 200-300 points, and then losing 93 in one chunk. I'm hoping this isn't the final solution.

Unknown

This is a load of **** really. I'm stuck in purgatory - for every win I get, I come out to a loss. I've spent heaps on skip tax only to continue to see the 4 stars and mind you the same players over and over and over again. Why do I as player have to waste my precious iso to try to get a battle I can take on cos the developers decided to 'test' these changes on us? You guys gonna compensate the iso back to us?

Seriously, if PVP remains this way, I'm done.

roberts_2

After win the first combat in Blind Justice the teams to replace the first seed (DD lv70, IM m35 lv.1, Venom lv.1) are:

• DD lv.201, X-Force lv.168, Steve Rogers lv.140
• 1 skip: DD lv.70, X-Force lv.209, Blade lv.166
• 2 skip: DD lv.133, IM m40 lv.166, Hulk lv.166
• 3 skip: DD lv.182, Daken (2*) lv.94, Patch lv.110 (that's beatable without a lot of health loss)
• 4 skip: DD lv.182, Dr. Doom lv.98, Patch lv.107

The new MMR are hilarious
When i beat the other 2 seed teams i'm done with this event. 2 in a row, wonderful season

Roswulf

This is utterly ridiculous. I have a 2-3 transition roster with no character above level 95, I haven't broken 400 in PvP in weeks (by choice- I mention this purely as a matchmaking factor), and other than the seed times I can find ZERO opponents with an average level below 166 in the Hulk PvP.

Whatever you are doing is not helping 2* players. I doubt I will have the patience to hit 200 with these opponents, and if this continues I'll probably ditch PvP altogether.

mrflopwelligan

I did crazy awesome in Heavy Metal, and I'm doing pretty good in Smash Hit. But I'm utterly **** in Blind Justice. And, yes, I'm a 2*-3* transitioned.

I was praising the debs with Heavy Metal and Smash Hit, I think I got personal bests for each one. But, then Blind Justice, and yeeeeeesh.