Changes to Versus Matchmaking [Update]

Unknown

edit - sorry double post

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edit - sorry triple post

Sorry, I must be new to the internets.

Unknown

Lidolas wrote:

I can't bully 2* teams for 500 points?!?!?!111? This sucks!

It really sucked when we were the 2 star teams getting bullied. Those lucky newbies don't have to suffer through that anymore. Looks like our coddled society standards have been passed down to this game now too.

Stax the Foyer

Ludaa wrote:

Haven't started Smash Hit yet, but I know what to expect from all the posts here. They don't want us "ruining" the noob experience, fine, but don't ruin ours in the process!

I'm wondering, could a possible fix be to add higher level 2* seed teams? Maybe they're only seen by rosters with a top 4 charactcer average of 166 or something?

I made a very similar recommendation on the first page of the thread. It seems like a win-win situation, addressing the newbie experience without impacting the veteran experience, but Miles didn't respond to it. Hopefully it's something they're keeping under consideration.

Adrock1020

I've had a slightly better experience than most, it seems. It's still much more of a grind than past PVPs, however. I don't have a usable X-force. I have a dozen 3-stars that are either maxed out or close to it (one of which is Hulk at 5/3/5) and fairly easily can very easily finish top 100 in every PVP. If the featured character is one that I have highly leveled, I can finish top 25, sometimes top 5. I've only hit the 1000 progression 4* reward 2 or 3 times, but that's mostly because I'm not entirely convinced that its even worth it to try to transition to 4-stars except for X-force. In this current Smash Hit pvp, I started the 4th time slice right when it began and actually got 6 1-star seed teams to run through. After that, I went through a few 200+/94/94 teams and I'm now sitting in 3rd place with 472 pts. I've gotten attacked a few times, but haven't lost a noteworthy amount of points . I've looked at the rest of the top 10 in my bracket, and they're all 3*/4* teams with rosters as good or better than mine. Usually at this point, I'd have somewhere around 700 points and be sitting between 25th and 50th place. It seems to me that point progression is much harder, but placing higher might be easier for deep rosters.

Lidolas

CoolB76 wrote:

Lidolas wrote:

I can't bully 2* teams for 500 points?!?!?!111? This sucks!

It really sucked when we were the 2 star teams getting bullied. Those lucky newbies don't have to suffer through that anymore. Looks like our coddled society standards have been passed down to this game now too.

You honestly find it fun/entertaining to beat up on rosters that are lower than you? It seems you are the one who is coddled if that's the case.

optimiza

noooooooo wrote:

I'm early in 2* -> 3* and was going to really try for the 10-pack this season. Normally if I can put in some matches near the end of an event, I could land around 400 points. Looks like that won't be happening this time.

Currently I'm sitting on a roster with max level 94 (2* OBW, Thor, Daken, Wolverine, Ares, Storm, HT, and Magneto), with a Hulk boosted to 115 for the event. At rank #103 and 235 (235!) points in the current event, I was offered the following bloodbaths to sacrifice my 2*s on:
222 Hulk / 166 3*Thor / 166 Daken
183 Hulk / 166 Hood / 245 XF
290 Hulk / 166 3*Thor / 166 Spidey
290 Hulk / 221 XF / 114 Black Panther
254 Hulk / 153 Loki / 166 Patch
275 Hulk / 166 Capt America / 142 Patch
271 Hulk / 166 Iron Man / 153 Mohawk
178 Hulk / 166 GSBW / 166 Hood
290 Hulk / 166 Hood / 166 3*Thor
290 Hulk / 231 XF / 166 Capt America
290 Hulk / 166 Grocket / 100 Capt Marvel
290 Hulk / 132 GSBW / 166 Psylocke
210 Hulk / 152 Blade / 168 XF
290 Hulk / 290 GT / 270 XF <-- ****
254 Hulk / 95 Spidey / 130 GSBW <-- maybe winnable?
290 Hulk / 166 Grocket / 100 Capt Marvel
243 Hulk / 130 Spider-man / 153 Punisher
290 Hulk / 177 XF / 166 Daken
290 Hulk / 166 Blade / 250 XF
254 Hulk / 153 Loki / 166 Patch
290 Hulk / 140 Capt America / 166 Hood

That's 21 matches in a row where the lowest average level seen was 160, compared to my 101 after boosting. Not a single team - not one! - with a 2* character in it, which is the best I can bring to the table.

This isn't an issue of me "topping out" in the bracket. There are 3 players visible in my ranking page that have max-94 2* rosters. Players who I could play against and possibly win. Why, in 21 matches, have I not seen a single one?

If I finish in my current rank, #103, I'll get... an Ares cover, which I don't need. Maybe if I keep dumping ISO into skips I can get the 300 progression reward and hope to draw a 3* cover. Certainly 400, which used to be doable with health packs and a good run, is out of the question, so my source of PvP HP is gone.

The most surprising thing about that list is the fact that there's a Psylocke in it. ZING!

I would also totally try that 254/95/130 node if it comes back. If you're careful and prioritize purple you could shut things down with OBW/Ares.

Anyway, my experience is completely identical to this. I like PVP, I want to play PVP, but PVP doesn't want me to play it right now.

Is it really too much to ask for for a gradual ramp in leveled teams? Couldn't this really be as simple as just implementing something like 0-100, you can see everyone (with bad luck you might see several 166s in a row but you could skip them), 100-400, 2*s to max 2*s, middling 3*s, 400-700, max 3*s/4*s, 700+ BLOODBATH? I like the idea that you have to work at being better at PVP, and that you shouldn't expect the nice stuff right away, but hitting a wall has always struck me as really artificial. I mean, when you play sports in school, you play with people within a few years of you, so in principle when you play with 8, 9, and 10 year olds, you start off as the runt, but you can sort of compete, and by the time you're 10, you're the king of the anthill. Then you go 11, 12, 13, etc. The setup you guys have had has always been after you turn 11 (and currently, after you play for 5 minutes), you play in the big leagues, which is frankly moronic. Retaliations are part of the game, and should be moreso when you have a young roster, like when you're 8 and you get picked on by your big brother/10 year olds, etc. I appreciate the softening of the points lost, which is sort of like having a parent/authority figure/non-jerkface older kid stand up for you. Then you go back to playing with kids your own size until you prove that you can hang with the older kids. When you hit your ceiling, you call it a day (and maybe shield). My only hope now is that I can get into a retaliation war with a player with a similar roster to mine, and just fight back and forth for a while and hope no one loses so that we can progress that way. Oh wait, I can't even do that now because THOSE PEOPLE CAN'T SEE MY 2* ROSTER.

Yes, I'm ranting and frustrated, just like a lot of other posters. I did manage to get 330 points through random retaliation wins, and am currently sitting at like 35th place somehow. So I guess I have that to console me. Maybe I'll take a swing at a 166 GSBW team too.

Unknown

Lidolas wrote:

You honestly find it fun/entertaining to beat up on rosters that are lower than you? It seems you are the one who is coddled if that's the case.

I cant tell if this is a troll post or you haven't bothered reading/didn't get what people against the changes have said. I haven't once read 'you know what I really miss, beating up on lvl 94s'.

Unknown

What if we used sandbox mechanics to protect transition players. So the veteran can still see them and hit them and earn points like before, BUT the transition player simply doesn't notice or lose any points as if someone who was sandboxed had hit them.

Lidolas

MarCr wrote:

Lidolas wrote:

You honestly find it fun/entertaining to beat up on rosters that are lower than you? It seems you are the one who is coddled if that's the case.

I cant tell if this is a troll post or you haven't bothered reading/didn't get what people against the changes have said. I haven't once read 'you know what I really miss, beating up on lvl 94s'.

So I paraphrased. People have said they miss being able to climb up to 5/600 points on teams that aren't maxed. To me, that equates to feeling entitled to be able to play against lower leveled players.

KrazyKeylime

the road to 1000 has gotten longer

Malcrof

I am finding Smash to be rather interesting.. each time i hit a wall (like right now), i wait an hour or so, then skip.. and now i have a couple winnable / questionable fights! Just got my 300 point token, 1.5 days left. I am a transitioner, so pvp's have been rough, but i am loving the challenge. I still have never broken 500 in a PVP, but i will soon.

Unknown

I'm Really not sure where to start...

Firstly, my son has started playing his own profile, 21 days in and he won two cover Khan on the PvP ranking, I'm playing more often with a maxed out 2* roster and only just scrapping into the top 200. What's that about?

Started playing smash hit, didn't even get to pick up the OBW cover before putting the game down, today I go back and every match up either x-force or maxed optimal3*, I can't even play PVP like this?

Now I don't mind not ranking top 100, I dont even contemplate hitting 500 but now I can't even grab the first cover pack or even get a match that is even a remote possibility of winning.

I've read quite a few of the post on the thread and all I can say is.

1) you can't create a one size fits all, PVP need to have leagues or expand the reward banding (top 10 get the 1st equivalent, top 200 get the top 100 equivalent)
2) people don't mind getting bullied by top rank teams, just not constantly, that's just tedious, sort out the matching, either leagues (again) or tiered exposure as suggested by many posters.
3) it's not necessarily easier for transitioner's, newbies like my boy are getting their paws on 3* covers quicker but players like myself 149 days in all I'm picking up are the same 2* cards. If it wasn't for DPD I'd be standing still and you've still got to have the relevant cover to open the DPD rewards fully. The thing the vets need to consider is that today the sheer volume of decent 3* rosters saturates the top 200 rank in PVP for transitioner's, impossible!
4) I don't want it easy, I just want a chance to play a challenging game that generates a reward that suitable for the time and effort I put into it, not much to ask.....

I'm not actually sure what's been done to the game but it broke, just let the players with 1 & 2 star rosters fight it out for 3 star rewards and let the vets brawl over 3&4* and the like.

bknfoodie

Lidolas wrote:

MarCr wrote:

Lidolas wrote:

You honestly find it fun/entertaining to beat up on rosters that are lower than you? It seems you are the one who is coddled if that's the case.

I cant tell if this is a troll post or you haven't bothered reading/didn't get what people against the changes have said. I haven't once read 'you know what I really miss, beating up on lvl 94s'.

So I paraphrased. People have said they miss being able to climb up to 5/600 points on teams that aren't maxed. To me, that equates to feeling entitled to be able to play against lower leveled players.

So 2* players scoring higher than 4* players...that's somehow not entitlement?

Unknown

Lidolas wrote:

CoolB76 wrote:

Lidolas wrote:

I can't bully 2* teams for 500 points?!?!?!111? This sucks!

It really sucked when we were the 2 star teams getting bullied. Those lucky newbies don't have to suffer through that anymore. Looks like our coddled society standards have been passed down to this game now too.

You honestly find it fun/entertaining to beat up on rosters that are lower than you? It seems you are the one who is coddled if that's the case.

But.... how do you know people aren't using their 2* or lower level 3* characters to climb?

Lidolas

bknfoodie wrote:

So 2* players scoring higher than 4* players...that's somehow not entitlement?

I haven't had time or the desire to articulate all my thoughts on this subject and I apologize if I've come off curt or offensive. They were off-the-cuff remarks representing some of my feelings after reading through this thread.

I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive. Both sides can feel entitled. I have a healthy, mature roster, but I can sympathize more with those who are in the 2-3* transition. I'm certainly not saying that MMR is perfect or even close. My gripe is with all the forumites who are upset that now they have to fight against peers from the get-go instead of face-rolling transitioners for 500 points. I never enjoyed beating those guys on my climb and I hope others didn't either.

cletus1985

MikeHock wrote:

Lidolas wrote:

CoolB76 wrote:

Lidolas wrote:

I can't bully 2* teams for 500 points?!?!?!111? This sucks!

It really sucked when we were the 2 star teams getting bullied. Those lucky newbies don't have to suffer through that anymore. Looks like our coddled society standards have been passed down to this game now too.

You honestly find it fun/entertaining to beat up on rosters that are lower than you? It seems you are the one who is coddled if that's the case.

But.... how do you know people aren't using their 2* or lower level 3* characters to climb?

/\/\This/\/\

I used to climb up to around 450 using mostly 2*'s and undercovered/underleveled 3*'s that 2* players could get retaliation points on pretty easily, then I'd switch over to my A-team (which isn't even maxed out 3*) and win a few matches to go above 500 and shield up for a while. Once I healed up and a good chunk of retaliations came back I'd start making a real climb. Not really sure how not having that as an option and being upset that now I've got a bigger target on my back than a 2* roster no one can see anymore is being coddled? Especially when I just recently got out of 2* land and never came crying about how unfair it was (I realized my roster wasn't ready to compete yet).

JVReal

Demiurge_Will wrote:

In Heavy Metal, people with better rosters got to any particular point score more quickly, while taking fewer losses, than players with worse rosters. Players that are saying that worse rosters give you an advantage are mistaken. It may be true that the relative advantage of a better roster is less than it was before these changes, but it's still the intention (and judging by Heavy Metal, it appears to still be the case) that better rosters are better.

This was not my experience in Heavy Metal. My points came much much slower, and I never hit 300, didn't even break 200. I am a transitioner with all 94 and 95 level characters and 2 characters level 140, and 101. None of my 3* characters are fully covered. This Heavy Metal PVP sucked big time for me. Normally I can go through a few rounds of seed teams to warm me up, then find some single covered characters, and then the last few fights before 300 would be a challenge for me. In Heavy Metal, I fought 3 seeds, and then it was a challenge every single fight and I had to choose trying for points in PVP and wasting my Health Packs there or trying to play PVE for the insanely high Progression (which I fell about 12K short of getting) reward in an event with stupid Scaling.

I disliked PVP when I was in 2* land, began transitioning to 3* land, started enjoying the PVP process, then you changed MMR, and now I dislike it again. I feel bad for you D3. I've never seen a game try so hard to push players away. You take away 3 hour refreshes, push them to 8 hour but don't change the progression rewards, so now instead of a grind every 3 hours, you give people the illusion of relaxed 8 hour refreshes but instead have people grinding the last 3 hours of every event which is only beneficial to a developed 3* and up roster and HP for Health Packs (grinding last 3 hours of 12 hour subs is worse than having 3 hour refreshes, yet it's supposed to be better?

As my 3* team begins to increase in covers and level, my placement has gone down because my scaling has gone up. My roster getting better shouldn't make my ranking get worse, but it does. PVE is losing its fun.

I move to PVP, with a developing 3* roster, I begin to enjoy it more, then you change the MMR and destroy that fun too.

Thank goodness for Deadpool Daily... but if I tell you I enjoy that, you'll screw that one up too. On top of all this 3 back to back releases of new characters with NO BREAK BETWEEN.

Just super irritated and disappointed with you. My alliance is the only thing keeping me playing right now. Seriously. I'm not playing it for the fun anymore, and that is sad. When that happens, I either take a long break or quit playing. The last game I took a break from... is now uninstalled from my phone.

dleezphone

Lidolas wrote:

bknfoodie wrote:

So 2* players scoring higher than 4* players...that's somehow not entitlement?

I haven't had time or the desire to articulate all my thoughts on this subject and I apologize if I've come off curt or offensive. They were off-the-cuff remarks representing some of my feelings after reading through this thread.

I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive. Both sides can feel entitled. I have a healthy, mature roster, but I can sympathize more with those who are in the 2-3* transition. I'm certainly not saying that MMR is perfect or even close. My gripe is with all the forumites who are upset that now they have to fight against peers from the get-go instead of face-rolling transitioners for 500 points. I never enjoyed beating those guys on my climb and I hope others didn't either.

The thing is, instead of the game becoming a little easier with more time invested, you are now in a spot where the game is even more difficult than from your first day. I thought the old system was fine, even when I was getting beat up on, because that's just how it goes: the more your play, the better your roster gets, and the better you do later on. Sure, you can buy your way to a better roster, but there are also those that have paid very little cash and have put in a LOT of free time to be able to push past previous thresholds. There are many in my alliance, and they are just as tticked because it's like a big reset..seems like it would be better to just find something else to play...and many are.

roberts_2

One day the PVE minions levels becomes broken, now the MMR in PVP is more broken than ever. That's not a serious work.