**** Kingpin (Wilson Fisk) **** Updated (8/22/17)

Unknown

His black will make World Rupture useful again, at least.

He seems to pair well with Loki, Sentry, Falcon, Hood and Iron Fist. Maybe Torch. Any other thoughts on who he pairs well with?

I kind of wish his purple would generate black or better yet just steal AP more like OBW's purple.

Unknown

I disagree about him making World Rupture useful. There are better ways to get countdown tiles on the board than spending 12 .

Loki seems like an amazing partner, except against goons. Falcon should be great against special tile characters and goons, but in PvP, his Redwing will often not trigger at all. Not too hopeful on Kingpin+Hood, other than Dorm's Aid. I think you will benefit a lot more from KP's than using it on an Intimidation to lower those countdowns by 1.

Torch gives you the cheapest active countdown tile at 5AP, but it still feels like a waste to spend 5 AP only to do the bonus damage on the black.

On a different note, the purple is pretty unimpressive, especially compared to OBW's Agressive Recon. At 3 covers, AR gives up to 15 AP and lowers the enemy by up to 15 AP. That's +30 in the player's favor. KP's purple, even at 5 covers, you gain 8 AP and the opponent loses 6, which is only +14 in your favor.

Unknown

You guys should keep in mind that aggressive recon is pretty obviously OP as ****. It's kept in check because it's in a low health 2*, but pretty much any ability that steals ap for purple will be worse. There's a solid argument to be made that it's the best active skill in the game.

GrimSkald

Phaserhawk wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

He'll be an intersting character with a few different builds, I will make a strong statement to say it would be dumb not to go at absolute minimum 4 black, but think 5 is the best way to go, as for purple and yellow I'm not sure, but considering black is Kingpin's only form of direct and instantaneous damage, it would be best to maximize that color.

Known's

4 Purple is bad, just bad, go 3 or 5

4 Black is the lowest this should go, but because purple should never, ever be 4 and you never want to go lower than 4 black, Kingpin sort of builds himself and you fall into 3 builds

4/5/4, 5/3/5, 5/5/3 anything other than these would be suboptimal

I don't see why any particular number of purple is bad. I believe it destroys your enemy's strongest color and generates yellow for you. So four covers would destroy 6 of the enemy's strongest color and generate 5 yellow for you.

I could be reading that wrong, though. Not saying that 4 purple is good, I just don't see it as actively bad...

Because you would be costing a cover in black or yellow to destroy 1 extra AP from the enemy team, that seems like a really bad upgrade.

Lvl 3--Destroy 5 AP and get 5 yellow AP
Lvl 4--Destroy 6 AP and get 5 yellow AP
Lvl 5--Destroy 6 AP and get 8 yellow AP

As you can see going from 3-4 is barely an upgrade, going to 5 is fine but going 4 is terrible considering you are either costing yourself damage on black or CD tiles on yellow all to destroy 1 more AP.

Oh, fair enough. I agree with you completely - 4-5 is a much bigger leap in usefulness than ... honestly pretty much any other level. The seem to like doing that lately. I took you to mean "harmful."

Phaserhawk

GrimSkald wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

He'll be an intersting character with a few different builds, I will make a strong statement to say it would be dumb not to go at absolute minimum 4 black, but think 5 is the best way to go, as for purple and yellow I'm not sure, but considering black is Kingpin's only form of direct and instantaneous damage, it would be best to maximize that color.

Known's

4 Purple is bad, just bad, go 3 or 5

4 Black is the lowest this should go, but because purple should never, ever be 4 and you never want to go lower than 4 black, Kingpin sort of builds himself and you fall into 3 builds

4/5/4, 5/3/5, 5/5/3 anything other than these would be suboptimal

I don't see why any particular number of purple is bad. I believe it destroys your enemy's strongest color and generates yellow for you. So four covers would destroy 6 of the enemy's strongest color and generate 5 yellow for you.

I could be reading that wrong, though. Not saying that 4 purple is good, I just don't see it as actively bad...

Because you would be costing a cover in black or yellow to destroy 1 extra AP from the enemy team, that seems like a really bad upgrade.

Lvl 3--Destroy 5 AP and get 5 yellow AP
Lvl 4--Destroy 6 AP and get 5 yellow AP
Lvl 5--Destroy 6 AP and get 8 yellow AP

As you can see going from 3-4 is barely an upgrade, going to 5 is fine but going 4 is terrible considering you are either costing yourself damage on black or CD tiles on yellow all to destroy 1 more AP.

Oh, fair enough. I agree with you completely - 4-5 is a much bigger leap in usefulness than ... honestly pretty much any other level. The seem to like doing that lately. I took you to mean "harmful."

well, it would be harmful I suppose because you are losing potential damage in black or yellow, the nice thing about covers being bad at a certain cover level is that it makes it easier to determine optimal build, so like I said, you don't want purple at 4, either 3 or 5, and I very strongly believe you do not want black lower than 4, it's his only direct damage skill and it's very strong, I mean even if you didn't have a friendly CD tile out, it does 384 dmg per AP which while not great, is in the okay range, and if you do have one out, it's 878 dmg per AP, that's a very good investment IMO. Having black at 3 is a 3138 dmg 6 AP cost skill, not bad but nowhere near as good as it maxed. To me black at 5 is a no-brainer, it's the other 2 I'm not so sure.

Do I use KingPin as Black smashing purple to yellow converter and go 5/5/3?

Essentially King-Pin will play a lot like Luke Cage. With Cage you want 2 uses of his black to max the damage, with king pin this is split over 2 skills, you need his yellow to get you a tile and then black to blow it up, that's 16 AP to do less than what Cage can do for 12, however it might be easier to get 10 yellow and 6 black than 12 black.

I'm not overly fond of the collect one color to make another color type characters because the time you spend chasing the converting color, you could have been chasing the color it converts to. There are some exceptions like Iron Fist and Thor but for the most part you are wasting turns chasing a color instead of the color itself, yes there are boards and situations where that's all you can do, but thats what that skill is for, I mean when you guys play Cyclops, do you chase his yellow to use his red, or do you go after red than black and then yellow if nothing else?

For me, 5/3/5 if I'm trying to max out his damage. I'm chasing yellow and black and purple if need be, If I end up needing purple, I would probaly have around 5 yellow AP at this time unless the board is full of purple early, I just don't see purple accelerating you like a board placing color converter does, and having 2 5 turn CD tiles out increases my chances of having a friendly CD out for black.

now if........................

You plan on having another CD tile generator for Kingpin and do not need his yellow at all then a 5/5/3 build is the way to go. I see Loki or Torch being the best partner for this line up and then someone else to use yellow, but then again I think 5/5/3 is too limiting and 3 should enough.

I am 100% going 5/3/5 to me it s eems like a no brainer.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

The Fisk Defense - 8 AP
Seeing through his enemy's ruse, Wilson Fisk dismantles their position and strengthens his own. He destroys 4 AP of the enemy's strongest color and generates 4 Yellow AP.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Destroys 5 AP. Level 3: Generates 5 AP. Level 4: Destroys 6 AP. Level 5: Generates 8 AP.

I am really rather surprised this ability isn't blue. Maggia colors are Black, Blue, Yellow, and it would fit as a blue ability. I mean it's basically the Don's blue at it's core. Although I guess I'm ok with Maggia goons not being able to feed this ability in PvE.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

IceIX wrote:

The Fisk Defense - 8 AP
Seeing through his enemy's ruse, Wilson Fisk dismantles their position and strengthens his own. He destroys 4 AP of the enemy's strongest color and generates 4 Yellow AP.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Destroys 5 AP. Level 3: Generates 5 AP. Level 4: Destroys 6 AP. Level 5: Generates 8 AP.

I am really rather surprised this ability isn't blue. Maggia colors are Black, Blue, Yellow, and it would fit as a blue ability. I mean it's basically the Don's blue at it's core. Although I guess I'm ok with Maggia goons not being able to feed this ability in PvE.

I suspect we won't see many ap generating/converting abilities in blue for a while...

ninja-monkey-91

I've not read much of daredevil or kingping so will need to check these out!

I'm not sure if this would qualify more as a spider-man read but 'Back in Black' is one that stands out for me.

Probably one of the most brutal beatdowns kingpins ever took.

DrNitroman

I'm a bit puzzled that there is no comments about this pot yet.
Could it be due to the characters' releases being too fast
Personally, it's my case: while I'm very interested by Kingpin's release, I won't bother making plans about him when it will take months (years?) to cover him and when I have so many other new characters to work on.

I understood that devs don't want us to have all the same (complete) roster but instead we will have to make choices. However, more characters released almost in the same time tend to dilute the interest of each character, no?

turul

People usually discuss him in Character discussion board nowadays!

DrNitroman

turul wrote:

People usually discuss him in Character discussion board nowadays!

Of course, you're right, I almost forgot this character thread... but it's mostly because, every time I go to the character subforums I end in a certain sub-sub forum and land in a particular

thread.
I guess I find it funnier to discuss what might exist later rather than the actual stuff we have!

Unknown

The new Netflix series on Dare Devil, coming out in 6 days, also has some Kingpin material. His story is going to be one of the main features.

Unknown

He looks pretty lame, that countdowns exist only to be destroyed by black, if X Force recovery id destroyed in a wonder of cascades im guessing Kingpin ones will barely go off
I guess 553 is more useful but really not excited about him at all, Elektra level of will to get him here

A shame because Prof X was decent

Malcrof

The What If is a massive good read.

http://www.comicvine.com/what-if-2-what-if-daredevil-killed-the-kingpin/4000-31557/

Unknown

After playing with Kingpin a bit, two main things drag him down:

1. He doesn't synergize well with anyone. His powers feed into one another, but he really doesn't play well with others (appropriate?). He color clashes with just about every potentially useful match-up. The best match I found so far was Loki, but then you are trying to hoard black and hope a match-4 gives you ammo. Better uses for black than that.

2. He is slow and takes too much AP. Purple is cheap but does nothing. Yellow is expensive AND creates long countdowns. Black is only 6, but unless your are using Loki and got lucky, some AP was already spent to get a countdown tile on the board just to blow it up.

It is neat to watch his abilities role into one another, purple into yellow then use black to blow up. But to get that going, you need 8 purple, 2-6 yellow and 6-12 black. And in then, you do about as much damage as IF does with 6 purple and way less than XF does with 11 black or 3Thor with enough yellow or green. I wish he simply blew up random countdown tiles from EITHER side. That would make him more interesting/useful. As is, he is a mid-to-high level 3-star, and probably the worst 4-star other than she who need not be named.

Maybe someone will find a more effective way to make use of him, but after about an hour of trying him out, his usefulness appears limited.

Unknown

Rosraf Ro Denn wrote:

After playing with Kingpin a bit, two main things drag him down:

1. He doesn't synergize well with anyone. His powers feed into one another, but he really doesn't play well with others (appropriate?). He color clashes with just about every potentially useful match-up. The best match I found so far was Loki, but then you are trying to hoard black and hope a match-4 gives you ammo. Better uses for black than that.

2. He is slow and takes too much AP. Purple is cheap but does nothing. Yellow is expensive AND creates long countdowns. Black is only 6, but unless your are using Loki and got lucky, some AP was already spent to get a countdown tile on the board just to blow it up.

It is neat to watch his abilities role into one another, purple into yellow then use black to blow up. But to get that going, you need 8 purple, 2-6 yellow and 6-12 black. And in then, you do about as much damage as IF does with 6 purple and way less than XF does with 11 black or 3Thor with enough yellow or green. I wish he simply blew up random countdown tiles from EITHER side. That would make him more interesting/useful. As is, he is a mid-to-high level 3-star, and probably the worst 4-star other than she who need not be named.

Maybe someone will find a more effective way to make use of him, but after about an hour of trying him out, his usefulness appears limited.

his usefulness is as an opponent in PVE powered by goons level 395

dkffiv

raisinbman wrote:

Rosraf Ro Denn wrote:

After playing with Kingpin a bit, two main things drag him down:

1. He doesn't synergize well with anyone. His powers feed into one another, but he really doesn't play well with others (appropriate?). He color clashes with just about every potentially useful match-up. The best match I found so far was Loki, but then you are trying to hoard black and hope a match-4 gives you ammo. Better uses for black than that.

2. He is slow and takes too much AP. Purple is cheap but does nothing. Yellow is expensive AND creates long countdowns. Black is only 6, but unless your are using Loki and got lucky, some AP was already spent to get a countdown tile on the board just to blow it up.

It is neat to watch his abilities role into one another, purple into yellow then use black to blow up. But to get that going, you need 8 purple, 2-6 yellow and 6-12 black. And in then, you do about as much damage as IF does with 6 purple and way less than XF does with 11 black or 3Thor with enough yellow or green. I wish he simply blew up random countdown tiles from EITHER side. That would make him more interesting/useful. As is, he is a mid-to-high level 3-star, and probably the worst 4-star other than she who need not be named.

Maybe someone will find a more effective way to make use of him, but after about an hour of trying him out, his usefulness appears limited.

his usefulness is as an opponent in PVE powered by goons level 395

Are you saying you aren't excited to take 10k unavoidable damage every other turn when he's paired with a don or any other black generating goon?

pabasa130

I like Kingpin's concept. His abilities really suits the description. Casting yellow summons a bunch of goons, which as we know are represented by countdown tiles. Black sacrifices one of those goons for bigger damage.

But yeah, he seems best suited (in relative terms...) paired with goons that will feed him countdown tiles. Honestly wish he could destroy enemy countdown tiles as well but that wouldn't fit the description.

hurcules

dkffiv wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Rosraf Ro Denn wrote:

After playing with Kingpin a bit, two main things drag him down:

1. He doesn't synergize well with anyone. His powers feed into one another, but he really doesn't play well with others (appropriate?). He color clashes with just about every potentially useful match-up. The best match I found so far was Loki, but then you are trying to hoard black and hope a match-4 gives you ammo. Better uses for black than that.

2. He is slow and takes too much AP. Purple is cheap but does nothing. Yellow is expensive AND creates long countdowns. Black is only 6, but unless your are using Loki and got lucky, some AP was already spent to get a countdown tile on the board just to blow it up.

It is neat to watch his abilities role into one another, purple into yellow then use black to blow up. But to get that going, you need 8 purple, 2-6 yellow and 6-12 black. And in then, you do about as much damage as IF does with 6 purple and way less than XF does with 11 black or 3Thor with enough yellow or green. I wish he simply blew up random countdown tiles from EITHER side. That would make him more interesting/useful. As is, he is a mid-to-high level 3-star, and probably the worst 4-star other than she who need not be named.

Maybe someone will find a more effective way to make use of him, but after about an hour of trying him out, his usefulness appears limited.

his usefulness is as an opponent in PVE powered by goons level 395

Are you saying you aren't excited to take 10k unavoidable damage every other turn when he's paired with a don or any other black generating goon?

I do like his ability animations, esp yellow's.

13k HP at L270. What's that at L395?

dkffiv

Its mostly linear so around 19k. Predicting black will do around 10k with a CD tile up.