Wolverine (Astonishing X-Men) and Thor Character Changes

Unknown

soenottelling wrote:

finwe wrote:

More reasonable changes this time. So that's relieving.

One thing I didn't expect though was Wolvies yellow change. Especially as they just released Patch with the exact same ability.
Does that mean I just dumped one month worth of ISO in a 2 week old character that is going to get nerfed immediately? If yes I think that'll be my Ragnarok.

I don't think so due to the purpose being self made strike tile mitigation imo. Regardless...it would take them 3-4 weeks to get him nerfed anyway, they generally run 2-3 weeks back between what is being pushed out and what is a new idea and they don't have patches on the docket beyond undoing the strike tile error (and I expect them.to stick to that nerf/buff table for the time being).

The change puts Daken firmly as the best strike tile generator, which is fair since that's literally all he can do. Right now you have the 4 strike tiles generators looking like:

Daken: Best but literally does nothing else.
Wolverine: Still second fastest (Daken was always faster), still has the easiest strike tiles to protect (you always match red before you create it, and it's a no brainer because red is often the most valuable tile).
Punisher: Now generally has higher strike tile total (depending on a few things) but takes a while to generate 8g. Cannot be used repeatedly reliably (you risk blowing them away). Strike tiles difficult to defend because they're placed randomly.
Patch: Most powerful strike tiles by far, other than the fact the other side gets them too. Also takes the longest to generate them.

Unknown

Psychosocial wrote:

The good: Thor is still wildly playable. Wolverine's green is still decent. Maybe even good if he gets an additional tile every 3 red instead of 5.
The bad: was it really necessary to kill Wolverine's yellow? I think nerfing his green would have sufficed, he doesn't have much health to begin with. Red is still a bad investment IMHO, so overall I think he's trash now.
The ugly: now running for top spots in PVP/PVE will pretty much require 3 capped *** chars. Probably that's the way it should be. Still you're looking at 170k+ ISO per char, 510+ total, which at the current rate generation will take probably 3 months to achieve. That's without counting new chars coming out, which may require ISO investments for tournaments etc. Not sure I have the strength to endure that.

You're really underestimating how slow most of the 3* are (other than the ones on the block for nerfs). For example the Hulk/Spiderman/GSBW team that people talk about in Avenger Elite is obviously a very slow offensive team (no offensive move under 10 tiles). Yes, it won't be like before where Thor/Wolverine/OBW was routinely killing the slower 3* characters before they even get to do any move, but 19 green is still a lot of tiles to collect, especially when you're on defense.

I think you'll see more of a mix of speed and power in the long run. An all 3* lineup is just very slow and your games will take forever, and that in itself is a rather serious drawback.

Unknown

If the healing factor of wolverine** was an issue (he healed 179 per turn) then WHY DID YOU MAKE PATCH's HEAL AT 370+?!!!???? Seriously?

Unknown

Ouch, that change to Wolvie's healing really hurts. It's now based on two restrictions, having less than 50% health and matching yellow. Going 3 yellow is basically a no brainer, the two extra levels have next to no impact. I'd propose this change to make things a bit more interesting:

New Healing Factor

• If the team matches Yellow, Wolverine is healed for 5% damage taken.

Cost: Passive

Upgrades:
• Level 2: Healing increased to 7,5% damage taken
• Level 3: Healing increased to 10% damage taken
• Level 4: Healing increased to 15% damage taken
• Level 5: Healing increased to 20% damage taken

"Damage taken" means hit points missing from max, so if Wolvie is sitting around at 2500/3000 a level 1 match would heal 25, a level 5 match 100. The lower his health gets, the higher his healing on matching yellow kicks in. Feels somewhat more appropriate, Wolvie has no use for yellow himself, this way he'll at least get some benefit when matching above 50% health.

DD-The-Mighty

Phantron wrote:

Psychosocial wrote:

The good: Thor is still wildly playable. Wolverine's green is still decent. Maybe even good if he gets an additional tile every 3 red instead of 5.
The bad: was it really necessary to kill Wolverine's yellow? I think nerfing his green would have sufficed, he doesn't have much health to begin with. Red is still a bad investment IMHO, so overall I think he's trash now.
The ugly: now running for top spots in PVP/PVE will pretty much require 3 capped *** chars. Probably that's the way it should be. Still you're looking at 170k+ ISO per char, 510+ total, which at the current rate generation will take probably 3 months to achieve. That's without counting new chars coming out, which may require ISO investments for tournaments etc. Not sure I have the strength to endure that.

You're really underestimating how slow most of the 3* are (other than the ones on the block for nerfs). For example the Hulk/Spiderman/GSBW team that people talk about in Avenger Elite is obviously a very slow offensive team (no offensive move under 10 tiles). Yes, it won't be like before where Thor/Wolverine/OBW was routinely killing the slower 3* characters before they even get to do any move, but 19 green is still a lot of tiles to collect, especially when you're on defense.

I think you'll see more of a mix of speed and power in the long run. An all 3* lineup is just very slow and your games will take forever, and that in itself is a rather serious drawback.

You for got to add alot of the 2** guys as well (caps shield toss, moonstones red pewpewdie move, Bullseyes non viable 17 black) either slow to fire or moderate but weak.
You mean speed and power mix in 3***? because now there's little to none in 2**.
a boosted max level 1* IM/widow/Storm can run circles around a lot of mid to low level 2** and 2cover 3***'s before you finally take one or 2 of them out. It gets worse when you have a terrible tileset or the cascade shenanigans get started. You'll beat them, but sometimes at a decent cost of health.

I avoid maxed M.Storm and Iron Man35 combo more than a 30lvl cap or moonstone/etc. Hence why noone runs those par for the course 2**s unless they have then up in the 45+'s vs under-leveled characters. This game is a giant speed contest. I'm all for bringing thorverine in line with the rest but unless they quickly address the rest of the mid tiers this is not going to suddenly make the other 2**s better.

but most of you here only care and are referring to max level 2star and up play. For you most to all of the mid-levels and under are chum.
I envy you. you don't have to bother with this 2** nonsense.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

dragma wrote:

I may be mistaken, but it now looks like Wolvies strike tiles maxed will be of the same strength as Dakens, Isn't Wolvie supposed to be better then his son?

Why should Wolverine's strike tiles be better when Daken has no activated move whatsoever?

That's exactly why, because wolvie actually has to eat AP to cast them. With daken, you can fill up every single red tile in just incidental green gathering (even if the enemy gets the green)

Unknown

Incidentally, I really liked the comments from the designers and IceX under each ability. Makes the changes easier to understand.

NighteyesGrisu

It's kinda funny, I get 'rewarded' for being a newb...When I started playing I just pumped every cover I got into my chars...Now I have a 5/5/3 Wolfie and a 5/3/5 Thor. I hated myself for it....till now

Unknown

I'm starting to think 3/5/5 for Thor - partly because I can make it work with my 3/5/4 one (I went ahead and trained the green cover I had been holding onto), partly because the yellow feeds the green, and the red is just sort of there - not spectacularly good or awful. I can see some logic for 4/4/5, though, and maybe even something else. I think his green is his best skill now, though.

Unknown

Davometer wrote:

If the healing factor of wolverine** was an issue (he healed 179 per turn) then WHY DID YOU MAKE PATCH's HEAL AT 370+?!!!???? Seriously?

Patch buffs the opponent with both other abilities. Good regen compensates that.

Unknown

Well I'm just glad I accidentally (like so many other players) created a 3/5/5 Thor a couple months ago. I was already starting a new build but with these changes I might just keep him as is. My 4/4/5 Wolverine on the other hand. Not quite sure what I should do with him just yet.

Unknown

SUPERTOM wrote:

Well I'm just glad I accidentally (like so many other players) created a 3/5/5 Thor a couple months ago. I was already starting a new build but with these changes I might just keep him as is. My 4/4/5 Wolverine on the other hand. Not quite sure what I should do with him just yet.

I made my Wolverine 5/5/3 before I realized what I was missing with the yellow and I'm just relieved I can leave him as is.

Unknown

eidehua wrote:

Kyosokun wrote:

Fangel wrote:

Will Patch's yellow be adjusted to be in line with 2* wolverine's yellow in future?

I doubt it. This change makes it so all 3 wolverines heal in different ways, and Patch's yellow never auto-heals.

What? Patch's yellow is basically a very close copy of 2* wolvie's yellow
Patch:
Healing Factor - (PASSIVE) Yellow
(PASSIVE) Every turn there are 12 or more Yellow tiles, Wolverine's healing factor restores 59 health.
Level 2: Requires 11 or more Yellow tiles.
Level 3: Requires 10 or more Yellow tiles.
Level 4: Recovers 15 health if there are fewer than 10 Yellow tiles.
Level 5: Recovers 59 health in all circumstances.

Wolvie 2*
Healing Factor
Power Cost: Yellow 0 AP (Passive)
(PASSIVE) Every turn there are 10 or more Yellow tiles, Wolverine's healing factor restores 21 health.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Requires 9 or more Yellow tiles.
Level 3: Requires 8 or more Yellow tiles.
Level 4: Recovers 5 health if there are fewer than 8 Yellow tiles.
Level 5: Recovers 21 health in all circumstances.

Huh. I stand corrected. For some reason, I thought it did not have that all circumstances rank. Must have misremembered.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Ghast wrote:

So Colossus is coming? Is that the takeaway here? It's so hard to see the forest with all of these trees around.

Possible, yes. Not planned for the immediate future. Next upcoming X-Men character is someone else.

Is it Goldballs?

Unknown

I think the level 5 heal shouldn't have a below 50% health requirement, but maybe heal less?
But overall they're good changes
Going to be a bit hard to place well with 2* teams now though

Unknown

Hello all,

This is my first post, but I am a very regular lurker here. I'm not typically very communicative on forums, but I felt this situation warranted it.

First off, I truly want to commend the team at D3P for their transparency and open communication. I work for a software company myself and I understand some of the hurdles faced when trying to balance profitability and customer satisfaction. Despite this, I'm very impressed by the flexibility and dynamism of the team.

Using Ragnarok as an example, he was obviously broken and needed to be fixed. This was done, but the delivery of those changes had some room for improvement. People are obviously paying attention to their customers because only a few weeks later these changes (which are much further reaching than Rags), were handled expertly: the in-game notifications, very detailed explanations on the forum, events geared to 'wean' Astonishing players to Patch, etc.

Regarding the changes themselves, I'm very happy with results. Offering increased ISO for sell-back was a good move. They are still great characters, so I won't be taking advantage of that -- it was still a thoughtful move to provide the option though! Also, confirming that the ability to respec will be a future option pretty much alleviates any concerns I had about that changes.

Frankly, I'm sick of fighting team after team of Wolvie/Thor. I'm also part of the problem since I feel that I need to use them myself to stay competitive. However, the advance notice of re-balance was good enough for me to start building a team that I want to play and that can remain competitive. I'm excited to see how the PvP landscape changes.


tl;dr:
Awesome job! Keep up the good work!

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Ghast wrote:

So Colossus is coming? Is that the takeaway here? It's so hard to see the forest with all of these trees around.

Possible, yes. Not planned for the immediate future. Next upcoming X-Men character is someone else.

My guess, is Emma Frost. Adds another Fem to the Cast, and she plays part in the story. Only her and Namor are missing for their little cabal of evil.

Edit: And Osborn himself, obviously.

NotYou13

Well, I'm really glad I'd been saving those two red Wolv covers while waiting for my yellow covers. That let me bump him to 5/5/3. I'm a bit disappointed with my Thor build now though... He's 5/3/3 with two green covers waiting, but I'd rather go 3/5/5 after this change. Oh well. I like the changes overall.

Unknown

A suggestion to another build on Wolverines yellow would be that his fifth level also allowed for heal with 75% health left (or better).

That would make for a big tactical consideration on his build imo.

Unknown

Victor Von Es wrote:

A suggestion to another build on Wolverines yellow would be that his fifth level also allowed for heal with 75% health left (or better).

That would make for a big tactical consideration on his build imo.

I consider the new yellow like it is not there. Too bad. At the least it should work without condition, curing up some % (not necessarily linear) of damage. Not good for game, not good per the nature. Smells from devs getting bugged he heals up just going to some low hammer map pushing next tun. Or be okay without, as can just pick up loss from previous battle. Now needs actual healer like everyone else.

Well, at least mine is 5/5/3 to start with the recent best build. Not completely sure where he'll fit, on the bright side I had enough use of him for a life, so no grief even if gets retired completely.