camichan wrote: lukewin wrote: How many times have I seen a 395 enemy? I'll let people guess before I answer. 0 I have a max XF and level 240 4herf, and 11 max 3* chars. How many times did I see a level 395 enemy in the Gauntlet?Simulation 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, Essential 16, 17, 18, for a total of 9 nodes.27 level 395 enemies.
lukewin wrote: How many times have I seen a 395 enemy? I'll let people guess before I answer. 0
Talahamut wrote: Maybe it's changed over time, but I know back in my transition days, I could see the opponents levels increase as I leveled up chars...
dr tinykittylove wrote: i find the biggest problem with advice to use lower levelled characters in pve is that as i level up my roster, i have fewer and fewer lower levelled characters i can use.
MarvelDestiny wrote: I'm in my transition days, months, years...sigh...and I agree with Talahamut. My Easy PVE opponents are generally at or just under my max levels and Normal are generally a few levels above. These matches are winnable but I've watched the levels slowly rise over time and am worried there is no cap. All classes of matches used to be significantly easier and if they continue to rise at this rate most will become unbeatable.
MarvelDestiny wrote: I also only get a few rounds out of PVP before before my opponents start outclassing me by several dozen levels. I'm lucky if I place in the top 200-300 let alone the T100 (or god forbid, the T10). I was able to place higher back in my early days. The scaling system doesn't give me a chance to be competitive. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Anybody have any suggestions? I've tried the common solution of throwing a few matches with no result. The only way I place as well as I do is by entering a slice 60-90 minutes before it ends and even that doesn't work all the time. As it stands, I just grind until the system won't let me anymore.
Vankysher wrote: dr tinykittylove wrote: i find the biggest problem with advice to use lower levelled characters in pve is that as i level up my roster, i have fewer and fewer lower levelled characters i can use. I'm starting to see that on my own purposely **** roster but since nobody but my 1* are maxed I haven't gotten to that point of a roster crunch. Until proven conclusively otherwise, my plan is to max my 2* and keep everyone within the same level range for PvE.
Phantron wrote: I think what people are missing is that scaling is inherently nonsensical. There's no way the game can distinguish the difference between you having a level 270 IW or a level 270 X Force and scale appropriately, because if they do that'd imply they already know exactly how powerful every character is and how much you got to nerf/buff every character so that the overall difficulty is preserved (and then they should just nerf/buff these characters instead of applying a scaling factor). Likewise, there's no way the game can possibly know what's a fair scaling for a level 250 X Force, level 166 Loki, and a level 75 Professor X versus someone running a level 94 Thor, level 94 Magneto, and a level 80 The Hood. It is just a guess, and right now the game tends to favor guys with lower rosters. It can easily be the other way around and then we'd all be talking about how you got to level all your characters ASAP or you get hosed in PvE. I guess due to a lack of truly challenging content it sort of works as a stopgap and it sort of just works out that the guys with all the high level characters can already do PvP for their stuff so maybe they don't care as much being screwed elsewhere, but this is by no means a permanent solution. As DDQ shows it is quite possible to create appropriately challenging content geared toward a certain audience. That's what the game's future should look like, not hoping that you can magically guess what's 'equally difficult' for two rosters that aren't remotely similar. We shouldn't be trying to figure out how to beat the system, and even if the balance goes the other way like they already do on some events like Prodigal Sun/Simulator Hard (because enemy levels can't scale past 395) that doesn't mean the problem is solved. It's something I'm willing to put up with for now but I'm really not interested in how to beat this system because this system is no good in the long run.
lukewin wrote: MarvelDestiny wrote: I'm in my transition days, months, years...sigh...and I agree with Talahamut. My Easy PVE opponents are generally at or just under my max levels and Normal are generally a few levels above. These matches are winnable but I've watched the levels slowly rise over time and am worried there is no cap. All classes of matches used to be significantly easier and if they continue to rise at this rate most will become unbeatable. There is also community scaling, so the slow creep could also be accounted for by that. That would also explain why some people see their levels rise when they level someone mid-PVE, both the leveling and community scaling just happened to occur around the same time. MarvelDestiny wrote: I also only get a few rounds out of PVP before before my opponents start outclassing me by several dozen levels. I'm lucky if I place in the top 200-300 let alone the T100 (or god forbid, the T10). I was able to place higher back in my early days. The scaling system doesn't give me a chance to be competitive. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Anybody have any suggestions? I've tried the common solution of throwing a few matches with no result. The only way I place as well as I do is by entering a slice 60-90 minutes before it ends and even that doesn't work all the time. As it stands, I just grind until the system won't let me anymore. PVE scaling, is what the thread is mostly about. This discussion really doesn't pertain to PVP enemy levels. That has more to do with MMR. That's a larger mystery than PVE scaling. But the few things we think we know are; get seed teams at first, then teams that are around your MMR level. 25 pts based on teams around your score and MMR. The higher the match is worth, the higher that other team is above you in score (the same for lower). You will eventually get to a spot where MMR is less of a factor, and scores play more of a factor, normally around 600 pts. If you are below that, you're only seeing teams that are available and unshielded, meaning you'll spend ISO to skip and only see the same names over and over. You can be matched only with people in your time slice. Don't think I've missed anything, but ask any questions, and I'll try to give you what I think the answers are.
Vhailorx wrote: Anecdotally, past performance does seem to be a much larger component of pve scaling than raw character level. I know that I have seen significantly lower scaling in this most recent gauntlet than several of my alliance-mates who have comparable rosters. I currently have a 4/5/3 Xforce at 166, 5 x cover-maxed 3*s in the 153-165 range, 3 x un-maxed 3*s in the 110-153 range, and several more 3*s at or near max covers at various levels from 55-95. To date I have not used Xforce in pve. I haven't been crushing pve recently, but have finished in the top 50 in most of the 2015 events, with an occasional foray into the top 20 or top 10. Sim 42 in the most recent gauntlet for me was (I think) ~260. Global Domination overall started in the 150s (classified as "normal") and only the last 3 main-line nodes were classified as "deadly." As far as I recall, the only times I have ever seen a non-goon 395 in pve are the Hulk-only nodes in the early subs of the Hulk event. Goon teams would occasionally get up into the 300s after many grinds, but that was more of an issue back in the days of 2:24 hour reset timers. So overall, my position is similar to Lukewin's (though I don't grind out pve events nearly as hard as he/she does!). I also agree with some earlier posts suggesting that if the devs want to expressly tell the community that leveling characters will not directly affect pve-scaling (I say directly because higher level characters will affect player performance, so levels almost certainly do have an indirect effect on scaling), I think that it would be better to do in a stickied announcement thread.
GothicKratos wrote: Because it's an incentive building a deep roster of 2*, 3*, and 4* characters - rather than just building out the cream of the crop and not caring about anything else.
Spoit wrote: GothicKratos wrote: Because it's an incentive building a deep roster of 2*, 3*, and 4* characters - rather than just building out the cream of the crop and not caring about anything else. But if your scaling gets out of control, the roster depth starts to be of limited use. It's a incredibly frustrating positive feedback loop: levels get so high, so you need to use your A-team to clear the nodes multiple times on 5 health packs (and maybe not even necessarily with a good chance of clearing unboosted)-> taking less damage because you're using your A-team-> levels get higher, making B-teams even harder to use.
808SpicyToro wrote: Spoit wrote: GothicKratos wrote: Because it's an incentive building a deep roster of 2*, 3*, and 4* characters - rather than just building out the cream of the crop and not caring about anything else. But if your scaling gets out of control, the roster depth starts to be of limited use. It's a incredibly frustrating positive feedback loop: levels get so high, so you need to use your A-team to clear the nodes multiple times on 5 health packs (and maybe not even necessarily with a good chance of clearing unboosted)-> taking less damage because you're using your A-team-> levels get higher, making B-teams even harder to use. This is more a reflection of how poorly built the 4* band is, where there's a huge performance dropoff from Team A with XForce, and whatever your Team B would be. If you just consider 3* characters, any node that you can beat handily enough with your A-Team to induce an increase in scaling, can probably be beaten with a B-team, C-team, maybe even a D-team, with a match performance rating low enough to not trigger a scaling increase.
Spoit wrote: 808SpicyToro wrote: Spoit wrote: GothicKratos wrote: Because it's an incentive building a deep roster of 2*, 3*, and 4* characters - rather than just building out the cream of the crop and not caring about anything else. But if your scaling gets out of control, the roster depth starts to be of limited use. It's a incredibly frustrating positive feedback loop: levels get so high, so you need to use your A-team to clear the nodes multiple times on 5 health packs (and maybe not even necessarily with a good chance of clearing unboosted)-> taking less damage because you're using your A-team-> levels get higher, making B-teams even harder to use. This is more a reflection of how poorly built the 4* band is, where there's a huge performance dropoff from Team A with XForce, and whatever your Team B would be. If you just consider 3* characters, any node that you can beat handily enough with your A-Team to induce an increase in scaling, can probably be beaten with a B-team, C-team, maybe even a D-team, with a match performance rating low enough to not trigger a scaling increase. Sure, but can you do that 5 more times without needing to use a health pack? Or ending up tens of thousands of ISO in the red?