Coming Soon: Character Updates!

Unknown

I have 0 covers of GThor so I have no idea how she plays in reality and my only experience with her is as an opponent. I have to admit that when characters change like they do in MPQ it often feels like a kick between the legs, mostly because the nerfs overdo it. Instead of small changes that are tested over a period of time, they use excessive force when they nerf.

It may not be a popular opinion in the forums, but I am not a fan of abilities that can one-shot characters with 10k+ health. The change to red and blue affect mostly her performance on offense, because on defense the AI doesn't plan to use in the same turn her red right after using her blue, in order to maximize the damage, unless a cascade gives her the necessary AP in that turn. And even in that case, I think the AI would use her red before her blue. If someone (AI or player) used her blue 2-3 turns before using her red, then some, if not half, of the charged tiles would be matched so the red wouldn't deal max damage anyway. What does this mean for GThor after the changes?

If someone uses her blue, followed by her red,it deals 4025 + 5*725 = 7650 (plus the 3 turn stun)
If someone uses her blue, followed by her red,it deals 2157 + 4025 + 3*725 = 8357 (plus the 2157 damage to the other 2 enemies)

I think this shows that her blue is the weakest ability right now, unless you want to prevent an enemy from using an ability for until you kill them. She still deals decent damage and she has the highest health in the game so this should count for something. They could definitely be more gentle with the nerf-bat, but she is still a top tier character. In fact, it is XF who looks like his black could use a little work; maybe put a max (~5k) to the damage he deals since he can generate AP and drain AP from the enemy team. And this comes from someone who has him as his highest level character. I think most who mention a refund do it because they are angry with the nerf hitting GThor harder than it should and not because they don't plan using her again. That being said, I think a blue passive that generates a charged tile every time GThor makes a match would be much better at this point.


IF was barely touched. The reduction of tiles from 9 to 7 is fine, but his black stayed the same which means almost 5k damage in 10 turns without him lifting his finger. Add the 4k+ damage from his purple with the second use, and he is still top tier. I expected a drop to tile strength from 486 to ~300, but time will tell if this was the right call.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed with Rags. I just can't see him gaining a spot in my teams. His green is too expensive for what it does, his green gen ability is worthless and his red does 2 things at once (tile generation and damage), but both effects are mediocre.

My MNM is only lv19 and I have never used him. Not with 2*Storm, not even with Mystique. Partly because I don't like that play style, but mostly because my Mystique is only 2/3/1. Although I can see why the 2* players may be frustrated with this change, any infinite combo is bad and should be addressed. I believe his new ability is still good in pve and the new red tiles he adds now may open some new options for his other 2 teammates. I think he is where all 2* should be, but obviously, when a character is nerfed, it is unpleasant for all players

kensterr

Guys... by now you should know that the devs like to listen to the ones who are the loudest - the whiners, and that they don't actually play their own game. Otherwise all these nerfs to satisfy the whiners wouldn't be necessary. And yes, after selling so many 4* Thor covers, they decided it's time to have a new Kaching! machine.

TheRealJRad

Well, at least MNMags opens up a new slot for me. No reason to keep him now.

orbitalint

bonfire01 wrote:

Boosts are short term investments for an advantage... covers are meant to be long term investments. It is not reasonable to expect that something you purchased as a permanent improvement gets crippled to this degree. There was literally nothing on the pages to purchase covers that said "this is only temporarily worth buying, use it while you can!".

The practice or wrecking things that ppl have invested in with real money is terribly anti-consumer and saying it's fine (especially when it doesn't actually affect you by your own admission) is baffling to me.

Where else in life do you buy an item or service, somehow have your item completely devalued without warning or meaningful consultation and think it's fine?

It's like saying it would be fine for you to put your money in a 5% yield 3 year bond which was the best one you could find on the market... get your 5% for a year then they come back and say... sorry 5% was too good, it'll be 3% now and you saying "oh fine then, at least I got what I expected for one year".

Nothing about the purchase of covers implies it's a rental of usefulness and while it is reasonable of a customer to expect some balancing, to have the character's usefullness ripped apart is not a reasonable expectation... so there is really no excuse for it. It is a deplorable business tactic. It was exactly the same with Rags, Spidey and Sentry and now it's not some freak occurrence... this is EXACTLY what you should expect from them from this point forwards. ANY cover you buy for ANY hero can be arbitrarily made less valuable to any degree. What is the possible incentive to give them your money?

I don't see how XForce can justify his power level now being head and shoulders above every other 4*. So how can anyone consider buying XForce covers with any degree of confidence that they won't be ruined on a developers whim? Not that he'll be balanced... but actually ruined.

I guess that's where I disagree. This whole game is a rental until they decide they can't make any more money and close up shop. If you're unsatisfied, stop giving them money - which is an indicator that they aren't doing something right. It's why I don't invest money into this game. I've put in about 60 dollars and most of that came during the anniversary week because I wanted to support something I felt like they were doing something that was a benefit to the game.

We're buying a fake commodity (HP) with real money to purchase something to help with progress in the game (covers) all based on a TOS where they can do whatever they want and we implicitly agreed upon when we downloaded it. There is no FDIC or SEC protecting these "investments" in HP. The only thing I expect is enjoyment out of playing the game. I think expecting anything more is going to lead to disappointment. I think all these nerfs over the last year have shown that.

Should there be continuity? Overall yes but does that change my enjoyment of the game? Only marginally. I get to waste time and decompress using my favorite super heroes.

I admit that the people who just invested in 4hor should have some recourse but no one is making you buy HP or invest in these covers. I've seen people threaten to sue because of the Sentry change and get in car accidents because they "had" to do 2.5 hour refreshes and one happened to coincide with his ride home. It's just a game. That's all I'm saying.

Unknown

The enemy team just used Lightning Rod as a Team Up and I have to say it was hilarious. Shouldn't this power be unavailable as a TU?

GrumpySmurf1002

bonfire01 wrote:

Nothing about the purchase of covers implies it's a rental of usefulness and while it is reasonable of a customer to expect some balancing, to have the character's usefullness ripped apart is not a reasonable expectation... so there is really no excuse for it. It is a deplorable business tactic. It was exactly the same with Rags, Spidey and Sentry and now it's not some freak occurrence... this is EXACTLY what you should expect from them from this point forwards. ANY cover you buy for ANY hero can be arbitrarily made less valuable to any degree. What is the possible incentive to give them your money?

Sorry, I can't agree with this paragraph, specifically what I bolded.

As you've said, they've already gone through this several times, it's not like this is suddenly a surprise that they might take a character and remove its primary function. As I understand it, they've been doing it since cStorm had a red generator. One can certainly infer that a character can change at any time.

I get the anger, but if you've gone through the previous nerfs, and still bought covers for characters (especially powerful ones), then to me, you made an active decision that the reward of having that cover outweighs the potential risk.

As I also said, I don't think this applies to Iron Fist. He's been in the game a week and there's definitely a reasonable expectation that he would remain in that form for the foreseeable future.

I also think, like cMags, once the dust settles, many will realize that 4Thor is still useful, she's just not a game over button anymore.

fmftint

Lerysh wrote:

The enemy team just used Lightning Rod as a Team Up and I have to say it was hilarious. Shouldn't this power be unavailable as a TU?

I've said this in multiple threads, I had one drop for me last night and that was my first though, why?
All i can think now is disgruntled 4Thor users will stockpile them for 3 extra charged tiles, Power Surge, Lightning Rod TU, Smite

Unknown

So rags now has a team damage aoe that does only about 400 more damage than 2* storm's windstorm with no stun, for 3 more AP? On a 3* Awesome?

He also does 1500 LESS aoe than BP for 2 more AP.

How is a couple hundred team damage not enough of a drawback to boost the enemy damage to 3k minimum? Oh a column is destroyed too, great we really need more potential cascades to generate completely random AP (or none at all) AFTER we saved up for a 14 AP smite everyone move. Huge expensive AOE's are supposed to be finishers...am I completely wrong about this?

Wonko33

None of these characters needed a nerf if not for the AP boost system- that is what is breaking the game.

It is easy to notice how much more powerful you are than the AI with no boosts- I have played my 200level xforce and 4thor against level 270 xforce and 4thor for months using boosts (not even the all boost just one r-y one g-b and one b-p) and have never lost , got banged up by some cascades but never lost.

Boosts are the elephant in the room, we all love them because we always win with them and I get pounced on when I say this but truth is they are breaking the game because you can't have powerful powers balanced by high costs.

Unknown

Am I missing some info about charge tiles? Do they have any purpose other than to add damage to 4hor's Smite? IE what is the point of Rags making one during his blue power- what does the one charge tile do?

Unknown

ddvrom wrote:

Am I missing some info about charge tiles? Do they have any purpose other than to add damage to 4hor's Smite? IE what is the point of Rags making one during his blue power- what does the one charge tile do?

They produce triple the AP and damage when you match them, independent of the character

Unknown

What baffles me is the following: how could any long time player who frequents these forums not see this coming? They've done it to Rag, they've done it to Spidey, they've (sort of) done it to Cmags, they've done it to the old thorverine, they have done it to Sentry... It was only a matter of time before they would take the nerfbat to the current best of the best. Frankly, the only thing that surprises me here is that they left X-force alone.

It happens to reallife game items too - Magic the Gathering regularly has cards restricted or banned entirely from certain formats just because their impact on the metagame was too significant. I don't see that as a moneygrab either, but as an attempt to keep their game viable and diverse.

Yes, the nerfs were probably too harsh. Mystique didn't need nerfing at all, as has been suggested before a simple colour change from purple to yellow for Mmn would have solved the winfinite problem just fine without handicapping the 2* transitioners. Iron Fist still looks perfectly viable, Rags has become worse (which will improve everyone's pve experience surely). I am not so sure where this leaves FemThor, but she does not seem to be nerfed as badly as Sentry or Spidey...

Roswulf

Wonko33 wrote:

Boosts are the elephant in the room, we all love them because we always win with them and I get pounced on when I say this but truth is they are breaking the game because you can't have powerful powers balanced by high costs.

Wait...how is this true?

Don't boosts benefit low cost powers like Iron Fist Purple most? The difference between a two-match move and a one match move- or even a no match move with +All boosts- is much greater than that between a four match move and a three match.

In fact, part of the reason GThor was so strong is that her killer move was split into two medium cost powers, allowing her to exploit boosts better than a GSBW type.

I basically agree that boosts are a bad design element, but in part this is because they skew the meta even more towards speed rather than power.

Unknown

So 3/23 update. 2*-3* should have some time left with the stomneto combo. That should coincide with the final day of the 3* top row covers reward for DDQ . stomneto will get harder to use once we loop back to start second row rewards.
Seems like swapping out OBW for a red power may be the way to go? Would a multiple Ares Rampage be useful in DDQ now?

darkmagearcanis

Everyone, please read this before you sell mags and everyone that was nerfed!

Expect each of them to be in the Heroic event coming up. How else are you going to test all of the changes against high level opponents?

All kidding aside. What do you all expect when it comes to the nerfs. Especially with IF. I have read all 19 pages on this topic and more then a few times I have seen people say "I just put HP into IF. Why did you do this to me?" For those of you who do not remember or have played long enough. This is not the first time they have done this, nor will it be the last. Example BP.

I agree that Rags seems to have gotten a bit more weak. but come on, I constantly see requests to have him get a third ability. Success, you got it. What is the point in complaining more.

Now all I see is XF needs nerfed. After months of people asking for a buff for this guy, you do a 180 and say " oh no, we didn't want that big of a buff". Geez make up your minds community. At what point are you happy? None....ok.

"OMG winfinite is gone. How will I ever survive MPQ?" Hmm, lets see how many other characters are there to play with? Geez people. Expand your roster a little and actually put work into the game to make it fun. Try different combos for once.

I do agree that the Devs should actually listen and not pretend to listen to the community. There are characters that have been on the list to be fixed or released or fixed for months and some a year or more. Where is Iron Patriot? Where is the Buff to IW. These are things the Devs told us about long ago that have not seen light yet. I would like to see them work on things that have been in the queue the longest and not just recently added to the queue. Example: IF recently added. IW been in the queue the longest out of all of the characters in the game. Priorities needs to be adjusted Devs.

Roswulf

mike h wrote:

So 3/23 update. 2*-3* should have some time left with the stomneto combo. That should coincide with the final day of the 3* top row covers reward for DDQ . stomneto will get harder to use once we loop back to start second row rewards.
Seems like swapping out OBW for a red power may be the way to go? Would a multiple Ares Rampage be useful in DDQ now?

I've completed all but two of the DDQ with a 2* roster without ever losing a node (the skips were due to missing characters), and only ever used Stormneto on the easy, 2 stage Survival node to save on Health Packs. OBW/Daken/Thor is very consistent on the main node.

Unknown

darkmagearcanis wrote:

Now all I see is XF needs nerfed. After months of people asking for a buff for this guy, you do a 180 and say " oh no, we didn't want that big of a buff". Geez make up your minds community. At what point are you happy? None....ok.

There is a subtle difference in saying my power drill is too weak to drill holes (old x-force) and using a jackhammer instead (new x-force) when all we really wanted was a drill that actually did it's job correctly. There is a middle ground where people are happy, I promise. Well maybe not everyone, but most. Most people happy is a good place to strive for...

Unknown

fmftint wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

The enemy team just used Lightning Rod as a Team Up and I have to say it was hilarious. Shouldn't this power be unavailable as a TU?

I've said this in multiple threads, I had one drop for me last night and that was my first though, why?

Be quiet, you fools! How removing it from TU benefit you in any way? Just let enemy be stupid and abuse it by playing smart.

Wonko33

Roswulf wrote:

Wonko33 wrote:

Boosts are the elephant in the room, we all love them because we always win with them and I get pounced on when I say this but truth is they are breaking the game because you can't have powerful powers balanced by high costs.

Wait...how is this true?

Don't boosts benefit low cost powers like Iron Fist Purple most? The difference between a two-match move and a one match move- or even a no match move with +All boosts- is much greater than that between a four match move and a three match.

In fact, part of the reason GThor was so strong is that her killer move was split into two medium cost powers, allowing her to exploit boosts better than a GSBW type.

I basically agree that boosts are a bad design element, but in part this is because they skew the meta even more towards speed rather than power.

not low cost only, in IF the problem is that now the 3 purples of your +all boosts easily become another AP boost to black, plus the 3 from all boosts + the 3 from black-green, then you get an easy 2nd turn surgical strike.

4thor needed 19 AP to destroy any character- with a all boost and 3 blue-purple and 3 red-yellow, she already has 12 of those- she's pretty close to the super stun one guy kill the other move.

If there are no boosts a lot of stuff can happen during that time it takes to generate those 19 APs- many 3 stars can get something going in that time, I can even stick a Hood to slow her down a bit, hence she's not OP anymore just a real powerful 4*- I play 4thor without boosts in PvE and you sweat bullets collecting those blues and reds, the only thing I worry about in PvP with boosts is if someone will hit me while I hop, I know I'm winning this match even if the enemy has all 270s

Yes we still have a possible winfinite but now the AP needs to be collected, Mmags and Mystique are very squishy....

GrumpySmurf1002

darkmagearcanis wrote:

Everyone, please read this before you sell mags and everyone that was nerfed!

Expect each of them to be in the Heroic event coming up. How else are you going to test all of the changes against high level opponents?

One, even if you're kidding, I'm expecting a Ragnarok PvP soon. It's been a while and pretty sure other characters that were updated had their run shortly after. I'm waiting to sell my Rags until after the inevitable.

Overall, while I agree with most of your points, I'm selling Rags and Mags for sure, and will probably keep the other 3. I'm also keeping every Mags cover between now and sale end. HP is the hardest resource to acquire, so having a short term Iso->HP battery is not something I plan on passing up, especially for characters I barely use to begin with.