Coming Soon: Character Updates!

ClydeFrog76

The only change that really affects me is Rags. Never used Magstique, have a grand total of one cover for Thoress. I've got him at 5/5, level 140, because I've always thought he had a lot of potential and I cover maxed him early in my 2*-3* transition so thought I may as well dump some ISO into him. Was really hoping for a Loki/Doom treatment with his third ability but, alas, that dream has been shattered. I honestly can't see any positives to playing him now, doesn't seem like a fun character at all.

The question now is: do I sell him for 53,316 ISO and 1000 HP? Hmmm...

Puertorico

arktos1971 wrote:

Bought a stark salary to max Iron Fist, because he was cool, but not OP.

He was very fun to play.

This goes too far. And as someone said : where is IW character change ?

This is not serious...

They are working on invisible woman to make her a great and viable 4* character. Very soon we should expect a buff coming for invisible woman. And as soon as everyone spends 430k ISO to max her....they will Nerf her.

Pylgrim

Wow that's a lot to process. Let's see:

The Good
-Finally a Red-Green-Blue character!
-Finally no 3*s with only two powers left!
-IF's nerf was surprisingly forgiving taking in account the magnitude of the others. It should decrease the possibility of turn 1 Surgical Strike, without making the ability useless.
-The knowledge that Demiurge can work balances in batches. Hopefully this is the start of a more frequent practice.

The Bad
-12 to 5 is pretty drastic. I kind of can see why more than 5 charged tiles at a time is too much, but for such a stark reduction in usability, the power should cost a bit less or stun longer. Her red perhaps should have a bit more base damage increase as its maximum output was badly reduced.
-4hor's Yellow nerf was absolutely unnecessary. No one ever complained about it and it was only useful situationally. Now it's very definitely not worth it's high AP cost.
-Mmags blue nerf is misguided. To stop a somewhat unreliable and slow combo that a small percentage of veterans use only in PVE, 2* transitioners lost one of their most useful tools. Stormneto may have made some challenges trivial but also made some impossible achievements possible such as reaching 500 points in PVP or defeating the most difficult nodes in a highly scaled PVE. I'm way past my transition but I can feel for all the rookies who now will have a harder time. As some have suggested, changing the ability's colour would have broken the combo without damaging its playability.
-Mystique's nerf is terrible and unnecessary. Master Plan is terribly unreliable as it is, which is the reason why Magneto was necessary: to actually have a good chance at going off you had to fire it twice in a row! You only needed to break the co-dependency of blue and purple to stop the combo, not making a mediocre, highly random ability worse in two different axis. The combo may now be near-impossible but it came at the cost of making Mystique, on her own almost useless as getting the purple and black needed to make her abilities relevant is much harder now.
-Yes, we know Ragnarok is only a copy of Thor, but do you need to make his Green so blatantly less powerful in so many ways? Sure, 3 Green charged tiles are potentially a bonus 9 Green, but the chances of immediate matching are few, making it much less reliable and much slower than Thunder Strike into Call The Storm.
-I see no reason whatsoever why Ragnarok's blue shouldn't provide "true healing". Do yo realise that with only 3 randomly placed Green tiles, the ability will, more often than not will do nothing else the turn you cast it than a mediocre heal? Why cannot it be "true"?

The Ugly
-Iron Fist's nerf, as slight as it might be looks terrible so close to release. Let people play a bit with their new toy first, especially taking in account that many people dropped real money to max him quickly. Yes, his black was overpowered but it didn't even have the chance to become oppressive before it was taken away! Such an early nerf gives the impression of poor testing and hurried release. Nevertheless, now that you have done it, the people who invested in him deserve an apology if not the refund of their money. The announcement of that nerf was way too cavalier and nonchalant for the kind of message it is communicating.
-Please, next round of "balance" can we see some buffs along the nerfs? It will ease the rough pill in, and in all honesty, at this point there are more characters needing buffs than there are ones needing nerf. I guess that Ragnarok was supposed to be the buff in this one? However, giving him one ability that's strictly inferior in several ways than another character's ability in the same rarity level, plus one ability that more often than not will only "burst" heal him for one bad ability worth of damage are difficult to be celebrated. He's now yet another character in need of a buff.
-You nerfed MMags purple but let alone his outrageously weak blue, which now it's even harder to get AP for? That's just sad.

Unknown

Yay for all changes except MMags. Nothing wrong with the character but Mystique had to be rebalanced because she is the newer character.

Come on devs, be a little wiser will ya?

Generating blue was necessary for other combos. I never use mystique due to low covers but now MMags usefulness has been reduced to half of what it was

Unknown

Phillipes wrote:

The_Valeyard wrote:

TL; DR The balance is a good thing. Special thanks to Phantron, Northern Polarity, and others.

I should not be surprised at the outrage over the proposed changes. Afterall, there is a precedent of a much wiser people missing the forest for the trees. In the Star Wars Episode 1-3, the Jedi are enthusiastic that they may have found the one of prophecy to bring balance to the force. Then, they are somehow shocked as most Jedi are purged out of existence. Hello, Jedi outnumbered Sith like an army of Jedis vs 2 Sith, what did you think balance meant? The supposedly most wise people in space could not see that good was way OP compared to evil and balance meant there was going to be order to blaster nerf Jedi till the numbers were a little more even.

A lot of people talked about wanting a more balanced game. A game where more characters mattered than simply X-Force and 4or (Sex Goddess). A game where the featured character in PVP would matter more. A game where there was no Winifite or nearly automatic win combo. Then, the developers balance the game (which IMO is best for the long term health of the game) which meant OP characters and combos got less strong, so that they are still good (in 4or's case, still 4* good, just 5* godlike), just not OP.

Confession time. I would have lead with this, but I really do not understand how no one ever discusses how dumb/blind the Jedi were.

I actually majorly whaled up my 4or right when she came out. Sentry was gone and left a vacuum. The only Stark I ever bought was for that one purpose only. In fact, it was my only Christmas gift this year. Factually/Sadly true. So, I stood to lose more than most if 4or was ever nerfed. Given all that, in a moment of clarity and forthrightness, I directly told two people (not mentioning names) that despite my investment, I knew 4or had to be nerfed. One of the people was a little taken a back. I told them, no one should be able to one shot the highest health characters in the game. More importantly, this was just after the Thick as Thieves PVE, I said, I beat repeatedly the 395 Hood/C Mags node like it was nothing. No challenge at all. We've all played that node in previous iterations. That should never, ever happen. So, I again reiterated, even though 4or represented my biggest investment (also sold several characters to get ISO for her), I knew that she needed to be nerfed.

We can argue whether or not she was overnerfed. It's all academic. We'll find out soon enough. I think given her health and 3 turn sturn, she's still 4* quality. Actually, good 4* quality. She just won't win close out speed matches like she used too. But again, that was overpowered. If you can get one character down, and the other character is a max 4or and fill in the blank, that should not be an automatic win situation.

As far as the MMN purple nerf, we've all used that combo. We'll still be able to make at least one match 5. I already tried it, it's not hard. I'm more excited about the chance to speed up his red ability. It's one of the best in the game, but it just costs an arm and a leg. I'm hoping this will make it more feasible. Moreover, for people moaning about this change, that could have just made the blue tile placement random like TS for Thor. So, I think they did get job of keeping the ability having synergy with C Storm and M Hawkeye. Phantron must feel vindicated. He has been stating forever that tile placement was a bad idea from day 1 (or shortly there after).

Fist, no one should be arguing against this. He got off easy. He's still really good, but not OP. I'm fine with this one.

I left Mq for last. She is one of my favorite characters in the game. It really hurts to see her get the Sentry treatment. A nerf to the number of tiles and a nerf to her ability cost. I wish they would have just done one or the other even if was lowering the number of tiles created by one more. But, I understand winfinite is a broken combo. So even though I'm not happy with the change, I'm willing to accept it as neccessary.

I know that I feel like I am in the minority, but I like that MPQ stepped up and made these changes. I am very happy that they did so quicker than Sentry. I think a more balanced game is a better game. I would like to acknowledge people like Phantron, Northern Polarity, and people I 'm too lazy to look up and give credit to that have taken their time on the forum and more than their fair share of criticism at times to fight for us to have a more balanced game. I hope most of all that people give the changes a chance before making final judgments. I hope players will continue to give developers feedback after the changes. Positive and negative feedback will hopefully continue to shape the game to better product for all of us players.

I'll say again what I say often. The worst thing about this game is that it is always changing so you have to adapt. The best thing about this game is that it is always changing so you get to adapt.

If I didn´t respect you so much, I would downvote you.

Yes, they are making more balanced game now.
But that is only one side of the coin.
If they are making this kind of changes, they need to do "other" changes as well (other side of coin).

1, When you want to score 1000 point, you need to be quick. 4hore nerf affect this is negative way.
Outcome - longer games between hops, more players rage, more stress.
(PVP is alreasy stresfull as hell.)

2, Im always top 10 PVE. You are giving that pesky Hood Cmags node as an example.
Im OK with that. But that node is impossible to beat without boosted 4hore. And if I want to be top 10, I need to clear it several times, with other characters it is not possible due to scaling).
In fact, there are almost half nodes in every PVE subs that are not beatable without XG/4hore. (Some of them are, with other characters, but they are almost dead after that particular game, and healing time is 5 hours).
What choise do I have when 9 x 4 games need to be played?

3, Mystique MNmags combo - why they changed that? They were unreliable, I lost numerous times with them, that combo is good, but pretty random. Games with them are slow. They are used in PVE
to overcome outscaled nodes. Again, why to change that?

Result? They didnt fix anything. They maybe fixed balance, One on One game... but this game isn´t about balanced one on one game anymore...
It is about speed (shield hopping), durability (only 2 usable character in PVE due to scaling), patience (PVP climbing, grinding PVE 1,5 - 2 hours before end), strong will (all writen before together).

This changes maybe make this game more balanced, but they will make it much less enjoyable (= slower, harder, more stresfull).

As I post here manytimes, I´m convinced that devs aren´t playing theirs game at all. If they were, thery would know there are other issues they need to fix. They are just cruel and sadistic.

Respect has nothing to do with it. If you disagree, you should downvote it. Honestly, it will not hurt my feelings. I wrote it. It was not saying I was doing cartwheels over the changes, but I understood them. I think they will be better for the long term health of the game. In other words, I need to eat veggies, not ice cream, but it does not mean I like veggies or don't like ice cream. I just understand veggies are what's believed to be best for me.

Playing time is relative. You can play quicker now, but so can your opponents. If it takes you longer, it will take them longer as well. I honestly think 4or will be fine, but still waiting to try her new abilities out for myself. Not going to worry about it yet.

I'm not sure about scaling, it would help if MPQ addressed due to this a big issue for lots of players.

Winfinite was not guaranteed, but it was too close to a guarantee. With Prof X, winfinite would probably actually be guaranteed. That's why the change probably happened now.

More than anything, I was saying we'll adapt. For example, instead of worrying about the change to PS, I took note of the change to Rags red. Basically, 1 Red Rags TUP (which is cheap, pre-paid for the whales that full boost, not to mention readily available in prologue), ps, and smite is still strong. One simple extra step. There are other strategies to also still make it just effective. But, I will not be sharing those, at least not till I test them.

I've actually come up with another winfinite. No, I'm not sharing. My head is still spinning from the number of changes, especially to poor MQ

#WWHTDD

Unknown

Dark Avengers: Heroic

"Oh, no!" he screamed. "Please, not again! Have pity! Have
mercy!"
The hands pulled him forward regardless. The hands of the
Tower knew no mercy.
They were the hands of Gan, the hands of ka, and they
knew no mercy.

lokiagentofhotness

So D3's method used to be:

introduce OP (or even not OP, just with a lot of synergy with another char) char. wait for meta game to change, and top level PVP to be played almost exclusively with these characters, with people dumping HP / money to get those chars / level them up. NERF! (two seasons later)

introduce another OP char. rinse and repeat.

they've really stepped up their game this time though. nerfed a character actually less than TWO WEEKS after it was released and people dumped HP into him.

Unknown

lokiagentofhotness wrote:

So D3's method used to be:

introduce OP (or even not OP, just with a lot of synergy with another char) char. wait for meta game to change, and top level PVP to be played almost exclusively with these characters, with people dumping HP / money to get those chars / level them up. NERF! (two seasons later)

introduce another OP char. rinse and repeat.

they've really stepped up their game this time though. nerfed a character actually less than TWO WEEKS after it was released and people dumped HP into him.

I'm even more impressed with the pre-release Professor X nerf. The slow nerf on Iron Fist is a dangerous regression!

Unknown

All this would probably sting less if people didn't so freely drop hundreds or thousands to max these characters. This is exactly why I put a little money in early on, and have been playing the long game since (Day 506). Because of that I've never been outraged by a nerf. When they first nerved Rags, everybody went nuts and I'd never even used him in a match. Cmags was next and he actually seemed better IMO so I sunk some ISO into him. Then Sentry, who I did have maxed but I never put much effort into the whole Sentry Bomb shield burning money spending nonsense. Now 4or who I might have cover maxed in a month or so if I get lucky with tokens at which point I'll see if it's worth hoarding ISO for a month to max her. Lesson is, this is not the first time, nor will it be the last time they do this. So spend your money wisely and try to just enjoy the game without looking for some exploit to temporarily boost your rankings. Also feel free to sell off your 4or so I can start placing top 5 again. Mmmkthanks.

lokiagentofhotness

soursenseless wrote:

lokiagentofhotness wrote:

So D3's method used to be:

introduce OP (or even not OP, just with a lot of synergy with another char) char. wait for meta game to change, and top level PVP to be played almost exclusively with these characters, with people dumping HP / money to get those chars / level them up. NERF! (two seasons later)

introduce another OP char. rinse and repeat.

they've really stepped up their game this time though. nerfed a character actually less than TWO WEEKS after it was released and people dumped HP into him.

I'm even more impressed with the pre-release Professor X nerf. The slow nerf on Iron Fist is a dangerous regression!

that was just a misdirection, to make us think they're merely incompetent and incapable of planning for their own game instead of diabolical. you wanna nerf the char AFTER you release him so you get your maximum amount of money from him.

i assume the next char will be a 4* with a 5AP blue power that charges 10 black tiles, and 12k damage red power for 12AP that's fueled by 10AP yellow turning 5 selected tiles into red tiles. Which will be nerfed approximately 2 weeks after whales have dropped thousands of HP on him / her.

lokiagentofhotness

soursenseless wrote:

lokiagentofhotness wrote:

So D3's method used to be:

introduce OP (or even not OP, just with a lot of synergy with another char) char. wait for meta game to change, and top level PVP to be played almost exclusively with these characters, with people dumping HP / money to get those chars / level them up. NERF! (two seasons later)

introduce another OP char. rinse and repeat.

they've really stepped up their game this time though. nerfed a character actually less than TWO WEEKS after it was released and people dumped HP into him.

I'm even more impressed with the pre-release Professor X nerf. The slow nerf on Iron Fist is a dangerous regression!

that was just a misdirection, to make us think they're merely incompetent and incapable of planning for their own game instead of diabolical. you wanna nerf the char AFTER you release him so you get your maximum amount of money from him.

i assume the next char will be a 4* with a 5AP blue power that charges 10 black tiles, and 12k damage red power for 12AP that's fueled by 10AP yellow turning 5 selected tiles into red tiles. Which will be nerfed approximately 2 weeks after whales have dropped thousands of HP on him / her.

tmmorgan

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

Here's a neat idea: play the game, actually earn the covers instead of spending your way to the top, and you won't be so PO'd about nerfs that are ultimately good for the community as a whole.

Unknown

Ragnarok is going to be a great 3rd team member for MNMag and CStorm, as he can use red to accelerate Windstorm.

Dauthi

tmmorgan wrote:

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

Here's a neat idea: play the game, actually earn the covers instead of spending your way to the top, and you won't be so PO'd about nerfs that are ultimately good for the community as a whole.

I'm sure its those who spent the months working to get 4* Thor who are the most upset. That's a big time sink to have it all smashed away before really being able to use her. Those who spent money on her to max her quickly got a great ride before this.

Whether this is good for the community or not is an opinion. Honestly, if they nerf all tank's damage output I will be fine. I really wish they didn't start with the most expensive one though.

Unknown

tmmorgan wrote:

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

Here's a neat idea: play the game, actually earn the covers instead of spending your way to the top, and you won't be so PO'd about nerfs that are ultimately good for the community as a whole.

It is much more devastating when you have spent countless hours and months to collect the 4 star covers and the required ISO to max them.

Unknown

tmmorgan wrote:

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

Here's a neat idea: play the game, actually earn the covers instead of spending your way to the top, and you won't be so PO'd about nerfs that are ultimately good for the community as a whole.

"Earning" them just means you're spending your time rather than your money. Each has value.

radav

kthunder wrote:

tmmorgan wrote:

It is much more devastating when you have spent countless hours and months to collect the 4 star covers and the required ISO to max them.

It's a real blow. Gotta agree. Hopefully the outrage from the player base will cause them to rethink the Thoress nerf to some extent. I'm not suggesting she didn't need one, there are a handful of suggestions floating around that would be a much more reasonable way to bring her back to the pack a little without completely neutering her.

evil panda

Lol at the person not understanding the value of time in relation to money, or how MPQ works. I wonder how many usable 4* characters he/she has?

GuntherBlobel

I don't care about any of the changes specifically, but here's what I don't understand:

Why not mention winfinite combos are on the way out like a month ago, or in the Q&A when Miles mentions it, or in the Prof X thread when people freak out about his ability?

Why not just say that you can't have multiple characters with charged tiles and not create new winfinite combos with Power Surge, so it had to change?

The secrecy surrounding the Devs awareness of and dislike of game breaking character combinations bewilders me.

Unknown

Rags: Umm...
GREEN, I could maybe-probably not see the cost if it did generate AP.
RED, I would rather it still created green.
BLUE, only if it's true healing.

Thoress: Been waiting for this as well as a nerf to X-Force, just shocked that they didn't happen together.
RED, I like that it does more damage for the cost of 1 less charged tile.
YELLOW, filler to get to 270.
BLUE, 12 charged tiles seemed crazy when she was released and I'm surprised it lasted this long, as what was previous said, 6-8 seems realistic.

Iron Fist: I highly doubt that in the grand scheme of things 2 less tiles are going to make that big of a difference.

MMags: I actually like this change, it costs less and up until Cyclops we haven't had a character that created red. Unfortunately you still don't have the ability to place his red countdown tile wherever you want which would have made all of this more receptive, as we all know his red is no slouch with collecting AP and 2* damage.

Mystique: I believe one of these changes, if not both, was unneeded, especially since you can't choose which color to transform to.

All in all I'm guessing that some of these changes are due to possible yet to be released characters.