Coming Soon: Character Updates!

Mawtful

Pylgrim wrote:

-Finally a Red-Green-Blue character!

Somewhere, she-hulk is crying right now.

(I guess she's Blue-Green-Red, so perhaps your comment still stands.)

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

...
These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs
...

You lived through OBW, Spider-Man, CMags and countless other hard core nerfs and you really have the nerve to say this is overdoing it? These characters are still functional.

I've seen a lot on this thread saying how much flak d3 is going to take for this. I also see a wee little bit of flak.

These nerfs don't help me. I had plans for some of these That are now not as fruitful as they once were. I get it though, and this actually has me hopeful. D3 you're doing what I've desired since your first nerfs, fixing things without redesigning a character from scratch. Rather then destroy these characters you said 'hey, this isn't working because of x, so let's fix x, not wipe it completely'

So now I ask you to please tell us there's more on the way.

You've explained why it is higher priority for you to fix overpowered characters than underpowered but now you have a new tool at your disposal. Will these minor character changes work in reverse for us? Many argue GSBW, IM40, and even Bullseye are good characters, just slightly too expensive. Will you take this new approach to shape improvements to these characters by slightly decreasing costs alongside slight increases to our slightly overpowered characters?

Unknown

Did devs really not see this coming? Did they really missed such obvious combo?

Thor + Rags now almost sertainly garantee at least one AoE attack: gather green and even if one of them is downed or stuned before green hits 14, good chance the other is not. Enjoy the world of pain!

Unknown

Rags is awful, all that time waiting for this? Is only good because on pve he sucks now

Thora changes are absurd, who cares about yellow? With all the effort to max a 4*, to keep destroying good characters instead of balancing the **** ones they release weekly without testing, another terrible move

MNMags nerf? Really? Destroying a good sinergy because the 2-3* transition wasnt **** enough?

IF and Mystique arent so bad, but i guess theres only so many awful decisions to take in one day, probably luck for them lol

NorthernPolarity

Darkwing Duck wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

...
These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs
...

You lived through OBW, Spider-Man, CMags and countless other hard core nerfs and you really have the nerve to say this is overdoing it? These characters are still functional.

You missed the point. It's about the implications of the Thoress yellow nerf, not the results of it. Obviously the yellow nerf is meaningless since no one used her yellow anyways. My point was that think about the dev's thought process that lead to this change in the first place.
Dev 1 - "Hey, charged tiles are actually pretty good. Surge and smite should be changed and toned down".
Dev 2 - "Yeah! What about yellow though? That ability uses charged tiles too."
Dev 3 - " Hmmm.... I dunno. I haven't heard any complaints about yellow, but you may be right just because its the same mechanic. Lets nerf it to be safe".

This is EXACTLY the line of thinking that led to wheelchairing Sentry - a character needs a nerf. The devs don't understand how to nerf the character properly, and play it safe by overdoing it, while neutering the character in the process. They need to fix this thought process so that future characters don't end up suffering the same fate as Sentry. As a whole this is clearly not as bad as Sentry / Spider-man, but it doesn't mean that there aren't lessons to be learned and things to improve on.

jsoetrisno

Nivrax wrote:

Players in 2->3 transition will have very fun times clearing goon nodes where single CD wiping your character. The change makes it that you are required to have good board to clear overleveled nodes even more than before. Going from 5 to 3 choosen tiles is harsher nerf than it seems - you don't always get position to make even single match-5 and you can no longer use it to snipe CDs. That will probably means they will have to move to oBW + Mags which is more reliable by just increasing cds on timers. Except whatever you put in last slot, this team up be much, much slower. Even 2* players are sometimes seeing goons with 20k hp, without Storm such match could easily take between 5 and 10 minutes.

Oh, and you made Hawkeye go from 'niche/novelty' to 'trash', good job.

A very serious question to D3/devs of MPQ: Did anyone from us having a loud voice of complain on Mmags? I believe no one is complaining about Mmags! If Mystique is the concern, then why you point at Mmags, is this Mmags fault? If you really do this, then you will have a high potential of losing a lot of trust from people who are playing MPQ.

Unknown

soursenseless wrote:

lokiagentofhotness wrote:

So D3's method used to be:

introduce OP (or even not OP, just with a lot of synergy with another char) char. wait for meta game to change, and top level PVP to be played almost exclusively with these characters, with people dumping HP / money to get those chars / level them up. NERF! (two seasons later)

introduce another OP char. rinse and repeat.

they've really stepped up their game this time though. nerfed a character actually less than TWO WEEKS after it was released and people dumped HP into him.

I'm even more impressed with the pre-release Professor X nerf. The slow nerf on Iron Fist is a dangerous regression!

They obviously knew they were about to tinykitty over their customer base with IF and learned to nerf Prof X before release, albeit minutes before release. I guess that could be considered progression.

GothicKratos

jsoetrisno wrote:

Nivrax wrote:

Players in 2->3 transition will have very fun times clearing goon nodes where single CD wiping your character. The change makes it that you are required to have good board to clear overleveled nodes even more than before. Going from 5 to 3 choosen tiles is harsher nerf than it seems - you don't always get position to make even single match-5 and you can no longer use it to snipe CDs. That will probably means they will have to move to oBW + Mags which is more reliable by just increasing cds on timers. Except whatever you put in last slot, this team up be much, much slower. Even 2* players are sometimes seeing goons with 20k hp, without Storm such match could easily take between 5 and 10 minutes.

Oh, and you made Hawkeye go from 'niche/novelty' to 'trash', good job.

A very serious question to D3/devs of MPQ: Did anyone from us having a loud voice of complain on Mmags? I believe no one is complaining about Mmags! If Mystique is the concern, then why you point at Mmags, is this Mmags fault? If you really do this, then you will have a high potential of losing a lot of trust from people who are playing MPQ.

Because Mags was the enabler to that combo (and a few other pretty powerful combos). Mystique is perfectly mediocre by herself.

fmftint

Switchman wrote:

soursenseless wrote:

lokiagentofhotness wrote:

So D3's method used to be:

introduce OP (or even not OP, just with a lot of synergy with another char) char. wait for meta game to change, and top level PVP to be played almost exclusively with these characters, with people dumping HP / money to get those chars / level them up. NERF! (two seasons later)

introduce another OP char. rinse and repeat.

they've really stepped up their game this time though. nerfed a character actually less than TWO WEEKS after it was released and people dumped HP into him.

I'm even more impressed with the pre-release Professor X nerf. The slow nerf on Iron Fist is a dangerous regression!

They obviously knew they were about to tinykitty over their customer base with IF and learned to nerf Prof X before release, albeit minutes before release. I guess that could be considered progression.

What is to be impressed about? The stat preview said one thing, the character preview article said another. It wasn't till after the article was out and people started asking that they said "Oh yeah, we changed that"

Pylgrim

Mawtful wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

-Finally a Red-Green-Blue character!

Somewhere, she-hulk is crying right now.

(I guess she's Blue-Green-Red, so perhaps your comment still stands.)

Wow, in all honesty, I forgot about her. Then again, as far as I'm concerned, she's a red-only character.

jsoetrisno

GothicKratos wrote:

jsoetrisno wrote:

Nivrax wrote:

Players in 2->3 transition will have very fun times clearing goon nodes where single CD wiping your character. The change makes it that you are required to have good board to clear overleveled nodes even more than before. Going from 5 to 3 choosen tiles is harsher nerf than it seems - you don't always get position to make even single match-5 and you can no longer use it to snipe CDs. That will probably means they will have to move to oBW + Mags which is more reliable by just increasing cds on timers. Except whatever you put in last slot, this team up be much, much slower. Even 2* players are sometimes seeing goons with 20k hp, without Storm such match could easily take between 5 and 10 minutes.

Oh, and you made Hawkeye go from 'niche/novelty' to 'trash', good job.

A very serious question to D3/devs of MPQ: Did anyone from us having a loud voice of complain on Mmags? I believe no one is complaining about Mmags! If Mystique is the concern, then why you point at Mmags, is this Mmags fault? If you really do this, then you will have a high potential of losing a lot of trust from people who are playing MPQ.

Because Mags was the enabler to that combo (and a few other pretty powerful combos). Mystique is perfectly mediocre by herself.

If Mystique is not introduced today, then Mags will be just fine, right? My point is, if in the future D3 introduced a new character, then there will be a high potential where an existing character who already doing fine without causing OP case will gets nerfed easily, too. Keep going with that and more people will be in doubt on the game consistency.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Darkwing Duck wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

...
These two changes in particular just really show to me that the devs are continuing to overdo nerfs
...

You lived through OBW, Spider-Man, CMags and countless other hard core nerfs and you really have the nerve to say this is overdoing it? These characters are still functional.

You missed the point. It's about the implications of the Thoress yellow nerf, not the results of it. Obviously the yellow nerf is meaningless since no one used her yellow anyways. My point was that think about the dev's thought process that lead to this change in the first place.
Dev 1 - "Hey, charged tiles are actually pretty good. Surge and smite should be changed and toned down".
Dev 2 - "Yeah! What about yellow though? That ability uses charged tiles too."
Dev 3 - " Hmmm.... I dunno. I haven't heard any complaints about yellow, but you may be right just because its the same mechanic. Lets nerf it to be safe".

This is EXACTLY the line of thinking that led to wheelchairing Sentry - a character needs a nerf. The devs don't understand how to nerf the character properly, and play it safe by overdoing it, while neutering the character in the process. They need to fix this thought process so that future characters don't end up suffering the same fate as Sentry. As a whole this is clearly not as bad as Sentry / Spider-man, but it doesn't mean that there aren't lessons to be learned and things to improve on.

I doubt they went through that. I think it's far more likely they went through a numerical analysis of budget like you mentioned earlier, something like:

4* abiities have 10000 points of power

Striking Distance does about 6000 damage that uses up 6000 out of 10000.

Before charged tiles are valued at 800 points so this ability creates 5 charged tiles.

After realizing they grossly undervalued strike tile they now cost 1500, so this Striking Distance now creates 3 charged tile instead of 5.

In this particular case it's also hard to place a value on 'remove arbitary special tiles'. At removing 5 it pretty much gets rid of everything besides World Rupture, Phermone Rage, Hail Storm, or The Thirst, and that could be pretty powerful. At 3, it's possible something might slip through. I'm not sure how practical it is, but that probably cost something too.

Unknown

Wow thanks so much for the nerfs really glad you guys can nerf 5 characters in one month but not fix a single character that's broken. Amazing work! Way to not alienate youre entire player base with these nerfs... Hope you guys have a great day reading all warm vibes from the feedback.

Unknown

Nooneelsesname wrote:

Phillipes wrote:

4hore
4hore
4hore

Regardless of the problems with this set of character updates (and there are many), if this community is at all serious about this being Women of Marvel month or even pretending to have any respect for the women who play the game this guy needs a ban from posting on the forums.

I'm sorry you're offended, and understand why you are...but if you can't tell from his posts, Phil struggles somewhat with English. He has no idea what this spelling insinuates.

scottee

All the backlash just makes me want to use 4Thor even more. Just to "Smite" people. See you guys in the PVP's!

Flare808

Not thrilled about many of the changes (Thor, Rags, MNM).

Had a couple questions that probably won't be answered, but it's worth a shot:

Why do these nerfs take place in the middle of a season? It would seem like a better idea to tell everyone "Hey, guess what? XYZ charcters are gonna be different. Enjoy them for the rest of the season before they get benched." instead of an arbitrary date one week before the season concludes.

Why do the devs post something like this on the forums and disappear? Someone in the office must have known there would be a ton of questions and feedback. It would be nice to have some back and forth so we actually know the devs heard us. I know Miles responded to a couple questions, but conveniently sidestepped any difficult questions.

ValekBoss

Will they listen and/or read this topic??!!? Probably not...

CNash

GothicKratos wrote:

Because Mags was the enabler to that combo (and a few other pretty powerful combos). Mystique is perfectly mediocre by herself.

But the only one that was broken was the Mystique-MNMags infinite turn combo. The others were just "powerful". What are the criteria for judging how powerful a combo should be before it becomes "too powerful"? Neutering the C*Storm combo - a backbone of the 2* meta - will simply result in less roster diversity at the 2* level, as people stick to Ares/OBW or Thor/OBW exclusively. I can even see people considering building another OBW...

Unknown

CNash wrote:

GothicKratos wrote:

Because Mags was the enabler to that combo (and a few other pretty powerful combos). Mystique is perfectly mediocre by herself.

But the only one that was broken was the Mystique-MNMags infinite turn combo. The others were just "powerful". What are the criteria for judging how powerful a combo should be before it becomes "too powerful"? Neutering the C*Storm combo - a backbone of the 2* meta - will simply result in less roster diversity at the 2* level, as people stick to Ares/OBW or Thor/OBW exclusively. I can even see people considering building another OBW...

This is what frustrates me. who cares if about 2*Mag? PVE is TRIVIAL. Are we gonna nerf Falcon because he can singlehandedly win survival nodes? We gonna Nerf Falcon/3*Steve because they don't take damage vs goons?

if it was equivalent to sentry bombing in PVP then I'd have a problem with it. But it's not.

And why are you nerfing 2*Mag before X-Force? What the EFF?

Now I'm not even sure if I can do Gauntlet without lots of saved up whales.

Unknown

Haven't read all 17 pages sorry , it's all probably common theme...

And here I was thinking that I had gotten through Friday the 13th with out anything bad happening? Oh...

I bought IF 3 in fact. Scrimped and saved for ages waiting for something awesome. Doh!

It is an outstanding power but I didn't find it game breaking. Maybe I'm just getting tons of bad boards? But for me it's like a Ron Burgandy, "60% of the time, works all the time" ymmv

TGT Way over done too, dial it back if u have too but not flatline geez.

I don't think ill bother spending any more $ now guys, bait and switch poor form